WI... The Soviets had militarily backed Argentina in the Falklands War?

As the Soviet Union's main grain supplier, Argentina was the Soviet Union's most significant import partner in the Third World in 1980, 1981, and 1983.

http://reference.allrefer.com/country-guide-study/soviet-union/soviet-union409.html

I'm not sure they were not in 1982 but maybe it was due to their focusing on the minor war over the Falkland Islands with the UK in that year.

So... what if, the Soviets saw their close economic ally in a war with a cold war enemy as a reason to back them and began moving in weapons and support?

Would the U.S. under anti-communist hardliner Reagan see this as a communist threat to America's closest military ally and mount his own military campaign south of the Equator? Could this even erupt into a nuclear conflict?
 
So... what if, the Soviets saw their close economic ally in a war with a cold war enemy as a reason to back them and began moving in weapons and support?


Mr. Arken,

It's tough call, you see the junta kicked the whole thing off as an attempt to distract the populace from demonstrating outside the palace every day. The junta didn't do any of the planning they should have and the nastiness was over fairly quickly. There might have been enough time for the Soviets to send over various goodies. There's another recent Falklands thread on the board. Check it out.

Assuming the junta goes to war as quickly and as hapahazardly they did in the OTL; how quickly can the Soviets get materials to the Argies, what would the Argies want, and how quickly could they learn to use the stuff? If we discount the shipment of actual hardware, the Soviets could have tweaked a ROR-sat orbit or two and given the Argies satellite data.

A major problem would be integrating all the Soviet stuff with the Western stuff the Argies already used. You're not going be able to slap a Soviet ASM onto a Super Entendard or Mirage III-3. The stuff wasn't made to go together. The same holds true for a lot of the hardware in the Soviet inventory; it may be good stuff but it doens't mesh well with the stuff the Argies already have. Now throw in the training curve, how fast could the Argies learn to use it even if they could get it to work with their hardware?

Now let's assume that the junta decides to plan Operation Rosario like they should have. For whatever reason they have the time and they decide to use it. In this context, they could begin swapping wheat for weapons with the USSR, filling holes in their inventory or just upgrading things. Weapons come with advisors and trainers, it can't be helped. In this case, the new relationship between Argie and Moscow can't be hidden. Questions will be asked, notes sent, etc. The West generally supports the junta because they aren't commies (Our Bastards and all that) and now the junta is cozying up to the USSR. If anything, by going after Soviet hardware for their upcoming invasion I'd think the junta would have tipped their hand.

Between these two cases would be the Argies asking the Soviets on the sly ofr help in 'acquiring' additional amounts of the weapons they already have. FX: They don't get more exocets from France; who would then report it, instead they get more exocets from third parties. The Argies would be paying quite a bit more for each missile however.

Summing it all up:

- If they get subs, planes, or ships from the USSR, they're announcing they've shifted camps and find themsleves under more scrutiny which makes the invasion harder. My take? No Go.

- If they get weapons for subs, planes, and ships from the USSR, they've still got to train on 'em and integrate them with the platforms they already own. That'll take techs and advisors which will put htem under more scrutiny, etc., etc. My take? No Go.

- If they get help in smuggling additional weapons, they might be able to keep thigns under wraps long enough. My take? Plausible.

- If they arrange for intel and sigint from the Soviets prior to the invasion, they can most likely keep in under wraps. My take? Plausible.

Any significant help from the USSR would require a POD that places Argentina in the Non-Aligned or Communist camps. And, if that is the case, she's being watched very closely by the US and UK alike.

Would the U.S. under anti-communist hardliner Reagan see this as a communist threat to America's closest military ally and mount his own military campaign south of the Equator? Could this even erupt into a nuclear conflict?

If Argentina went communist like San Salvador did? Sure, you'd see the US under Reagan in the South Atlantic like white on rice.

As for a military campaign? Local catspaws with advisors are my best guess, set up Chile, Brasil, Uruguay, and groups inside those countries to take Argentina down.

As for nuclear escalation? Well, the Soviets thought NATO's Able Archer exercises were a lead-up to a NATO first strike. They went to an extremely high alert level and held there for months until well after Able Archer was over. And we never knew it until the USSR fell and the archives opened!

Hope this helped.


Bill

P.S. How does one go about designing sound?
 
Wow. Thanks for a very interesting and informative read, Bill. It gives me a lot to think about. :)

As for how one goes about designing sound, the 'inside joke' answer would be 'with a synth'... but I believe what you want to know is what my job description means- when you see a movie or TV show, the sounds you hear, especially the sound effects of things like guns firing or other things impossible to do live on camera have been added later by someone like me. I design the way the film/TV show/game sounds both in terms of the live recorded dialogue and any sound effects creation and editing that has to be done afterwards and how it all works together so that you never notice and think it's all real. If you're wondering if you're familiar with my work- Probably not. I've done mostly low budget independents, commercials, etc. because I'm still relatively new to Los Angeles and the entertainment industry here.
 
Would the USA increase its support to the UK to balance the USSR help to Argentina? Dear God... this sounds like WW3... because of the Falklands?!?!?!?! Really?! :eek: ?!?!?!
 
It would be impossible for the Soviets to get any kind of aid through to Argentina once the invasion had taken place. The most that they could do would be to veto any UN Security Council resolutions, which would be of some help to Argentina morally, but not militarily.

On the other hand, it might also become the death blow to the UN. Imagine the UK and the EU seeing the UN refusing to condemn agression against one of their own! Suddenly right-wing Americans aren't the only ones wondering what the point is.

Or perhaps the US retaliates big time! Stingers to Afghanis 1982!
 
What about LOS DESAPERICIDOS ?

If the Soviets decided to militarily support the Galtieri junta, then what the heck would've been the results of the 1970s 'Dirty War' and the disappearances of thousands of leftists ? Wouldn't the junta accepting such direct soviet weapnry etc be totally flying in the face of what the strongmen had tried to achieve with these enforced disappearances ?

However, I have read that the Soviets apparently did provide some satellite intel info to the junta during 1982.
 
Agreed it was a little too fast for the Soviets to send in military support... but that is assuming that they wouldn't have been given pre-existing knowledge of the invasion of the islands. If the Argentines decided to ask their superpower ally for help before they did it...
 
The Soviets provided lots of goodies to Hitler pre-Barbarossa even though he massacred or drove into exile the German Communist Party. Realpolitik would be the reason to aid Argentina (or long term "revolutionary" goals if you want to get ideological--Britain and the US would be weaker, after all).
 
The most the Soviets would do is sell Argentina some weapons as they did not want to provoke Reagan. If they though Able Archer was leading to a first strike they were paranoid enough to think doing much may spark WWIII.
 
I don't know if this was ever proven, but there were rumours that the Soviets were supplying the Argentines with spy satellite data on British shipping etc. Obviously, in an AH where the Soviets actively supported the Argentine war efforts, such data wouldn't be hard to supply. It would, without a doubt, help the Argentine's in planning attacks on the ships of the Royal Navy with uncanning accuracy - which is interesting because they managed that to a certain degree in the OTL.
 
Kurt_Steiner said:
Would the USA increase its support to the UK to balance the USSR help to Argentina? Dear God... this sounds like WW3... because of the Falklands?!?!?!?! Really?! :eek: ?!?!?!

One of America's fears was that the war berwing in the Falkans was a derverson for an attack against NATO. The fear came from the posiblity of the Soviets begining a smaller conflict somewhere in the world and then while Western intersts are looking that way, launch and invasion of the FGR.

This idea isn't too crazy in my opinion. The British deployed quite a few resoucres designated for the defense of Europe in the event of WWIII. 3 Para for example was part of the defense of Norway, the Naval task force was ment for Norweiagn Sea duty and Convony protection.

I think the most likey Russian support would be reconsiance assets. Maybe stage a few 'vounteer' Bear Ds out of a pro-USSR nation in LA.
 
Arken,

Glad you liked my post. I hope it helps you in some way.

Also, thank you so much for explaining 'sound design' to me. It seems so obvious now, I should have been able to guess. What a persnickety and technical task it must be, if you're off by the tiniest amount the entire scene doesn't work. Thankfully, you can tweak it again and again until you get it right. With the film already 'in the can' it isn't as if you need the actors, cameramen, etc. to go through all the motions again!


Bill
 
The tweaking is exactly what I like about it... it's sort of like doing a huge jigsaw puzzle without looking at the picture on the box. It's a lot of fun and a good challenge.
 
Would not visible Soviet support have embarassed that Argentine Fascists? Was not the justification for the "dirty war"- transalted as large scale murder of political opponents- the opposition to Communism? Still we do have the 1939 precendent
 
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