Virginia abolishes slavery

Cherico

Banned
This changes the balance of power in america by alot
Virgina was one of the leading slave states if they cancel
slavery this may lead to a domino effect its unlikley but its
possible.
This shifts the balance of power decisively to the freestate
movement this may slow the growth of slavery or prevent it
from moving out into the territorys.
Even if history still goes like the OTL virgina will be on the northern
side and that means no army of virginia for the south and that means
no Lee or stone wall for the confederacy that shortens the war dramatically.
 
I don't think Virginia abolition of slavery will have an effect in in the deep south. However, it probably would effect the OTL "border states" they would probably end slavery in there states as well. Another interesting effect, assuming the rest goes as per OTL , is that Lincoln may have a Virginian VP
 
I don't think Virginia was a leading slave state, in slave populations it probably fell below that of the likes of South Carolina, Georgia or Mississippi. The South did look towards it since it was Washington's state (and a few other presidents). The firebrands in the Deep South were worried about its possible union with the Confederacy since the 'Border states' were seen as those most likely to favor a compromise with the North and were also considered being weak on secession.

I think the question of Virginia standing with the Union or the Confederacy will hing on states rights and if the Federal Government would try to forcibly keep the states in the Union.
 

HueyLong

Banned
I don't think Virginia abolition of slavery will have an effect in in the deep south. However, it probably would effect the OTL "border states" they would probably end slavery in there states as well. Another interesting effect, assuming the rest goes as per OTL , is that Lincoln may have a Virginian VP

Virginia was in the 1830s, a major slave exporter.

Plus, this may very well change the Mexican War, as Virginia will be on the side of free states in the slavery struggle.

Also, note that Virginia was one of the states to ship Freedmen off to Liberia. With a larger population, they may throw more people into that disease ridden hole.
 
Virginia, IIRC, had the highest slave population at the time, being the most populous of the southern states. Percentage-wise, they were fifth, with 39% of the population. They also had the second highest number of free blacks. There's a website out there somewhere with all the statistical data you could ever want about the slavery demographics of the US. When I get home today, I'll see if I can find it.

My Blessed Are the Bold Timeline has this as its premise (which is why I happen to have researched these figures). With Virginia leading the way, many of the border states emancipate their slaves, leading to slavery eventually being restricted to only Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina. Not that all the slaves outside of those states are free, but the institution is slowly being phased out.

Meanwhile, with Virginia emancipating its slaves, support for the Bank of the US grows, helping the National Republican party survive, getting Henry Clay as President, with William Writ, the guy who defended the Cherokee before the Supreme Court, as his VP (good news for the Cherokee).

Through butterflies, things in Mexico proceed differently, and Davy Crockett survives the battle of the Alamo thanks in large part to the timely arrival of reinforcements under Santa Ana. Crockett then goes on to be elected President in 1840 and brings the US into the Mexican Civil War. :cool:
 
This could change the balance drasticly as VA was the largest state as least as late as the 1820 census and may still have been in 1830 meaning she had more members in the HoR then any other state. Va held such a postion in the south in 1860 with IIRC the second largest slave state being KY. This is total population not number of slaves. This is why Va took such a lead in the War. Also while they may not have been citizens of KY at the start of the ACW Ky born generals for the south included A.S.Johnston, Hood, Buchannon and Buckner all who made contributions to the South
Take away Va and Ky might have followed suit in freeing its slaves this makes NC TN and AR leaving the Union far from a sure thing.

But, do not assume that just because they get rid of thier slaves that this automaticly kills thier support of States Rights and if a slave free VA succedes then it makes it alot easier for the UK to support the South, as a free state VA and perhaps NC,and TN joining the CSA would cripple the Northern claim that the South left over slavery.
 
But, do not assume that just because they get rid of thier slaves that this automaticly kills thier support of States Rights and if a slave free VA succedes then it makes it alot easier for the UK to support the South, as a free state VA and perhaps NC,and TN joining the CSA would cripple the Northern claim that the South left over slavery.
But they *did* leave over slavery, in so much that it was for protection of the state's right to protect the right to own slaves that they left. So, with Virginia and other states likely following, the debate overy slavery will be drastically altered.
 
Was not Virginia seen as rather different and special amongst the states at that time?

Would not the example of that state change a lot of the atmosphere.

However what would be the status of former slaves in a Virginia which abolished slavery of its own decision?
 
The effect or impact of Virginia abolishing slavery in 1832 depends on a number of factors. One of them is how far the law goes that abolishes slavery. Does it just abolish slavery, stop there, and do nothing more? Or does this law or others that follow it also recognise and protect certain, what we today would call civil rights or human rights, for Black people in Virginia? The further this law goes in recognising and protecting civil and human rights of Blacks, even coming more and more to recognise Blacks as equal to Whites under the law, the more effect it will have on other slave holding states.

Also, how do most Whites in Virginia view Blacks following abolition? That is also going to change with time. The view or attitude of Whites toward Blacks probably won't be the same 25 years later in 1857 as it was in 1832 when abolition first happened.

Also, does Virginia then begin calling for national abolition of slavery throughout the USA? What are conditions like for Blacks in Virginia after abolition? Does Virginia become a model for other Southern states to abolish slavery as well? All of these are factors that have to be considered.

What effect does it have if it causes other Southern states to abolish slavery? What effect does this all have on things like The Mexican-American War in the 1840's and on, I think it was The Gadsden Purchase, and on The USA aquiring more territory if there is no slavery to worry about which new states or territories are slave and which are free? Also, does an early end to slavery butterfly away The Civil War?

Virginia abolishing slavery in 1832 sounds like it is a very simple matter, but it opens up all kinds on new paths the timeline could have taken and with all kinds of butterflies.
 

Keenir

Banned
Meanwhile, with Virginia emancipating its slaves, support for the Bank of the US grows,

tiny question - how does emancipation support a bank?


Plus, this may very well change the Mexican War, as Virginia will be on the side of free states in the slavery struggle.

what does that have to do with the Mexican War?:confused:

Also, note that Virginia was one of the states to ship Freedmen off to Liberia. With a larger population, they may throw more people into that disease ridden hole.

abolishing slavery doesn't automatically give them more freedmen....they might enforce their abolition of slavery by making Virginia a whites-only state.
 

HueyLong

Banned
what does that have to do with the Mexican War?:confused:

Have you not read about the Mexican-American War? Huge controversy and exacerbated the free-slave divide.

Not only is it doubtful that the war would happen with a different free-slave balance, but its after-effects if it happens, will be changed, with a likely Wilmot Proviso and maybe even a free state carved out of OTL's Texas.

abolishing slavery doesn't automatically give them more freedmen....they might enforce their abolition of slavery by making Virginia a whites-only state.

At which point, they deport them...... to, say, Liberia?

No otehr state will take more freedmen, and if they are freed, they aren't going to be enslaved and resold elsewhere......
 
At which point, they deport them...... to, say, Liberia?


But even deporting them to someplace like Liberia is going to cost money, probably a lot of money. Who's going to pay the cost of deporting them?

It seems to me the least costly method in terms of money costs at least, would be to let them stay in Virginia as Freedmen.
 

Keenir

Banned
No otehr state will take more freedmen, and if they are freed, they aren't going to be enslaved and resold elsewhere......

why not?
"you're claiming to be a Virginia freedman? riiight. get back on that auction block."

or, "Virginia might call you free, but we don't recognize that ruling."
 

HueyLong

Banned
But even deporting them to someplace like Liberia is going to cost money, probably a lot of money. Who's going to pay the cost of deporting them?

It seems to me the least costly method in terms of money costs at least, would be to let them stay in Virginia as Freedmen.

As said, they were the state that devoted the most money to deporting them in OTL.

While it won't get all of them, it can certainly clear out many of their number. Pack them onto boats as quickly as you can.

Don't try and apply logic to the racism of the time. They would pay the cost, and did in OTL. Just because we think it would be a waste doesn't change this.
 
Virgina was in the process of abolishing slavery, and paid for it via the internal slave trade. Give them a date to end it by and you'll see massive sales 'down the river'.
 
Even if history still goes like the OTL virgina will be on the northern side and that means no army of virginia for the south and that means no Lee or stone wall for the confederacy that shortens the war dramatically.

Even if Virginia had emancipated their slaves long before the ACW it wouldn't mean that they would fight for the Union. Virginia's secession didn't come about due to the Slavery being threatened, it came about due to the Lincoln demanding that Virginia call men up into the Union armies to invade and forcably bring back into the Union the already seceeded states. The same is true of Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina, all of those states only seceeded when Lincoln call for troops.

If Virginia couldn't bring themselves to fight for the slaves states in the 1860's they would likely still refuse to fight for the Union and be neutral, creating a bit of a problem for the Union forces if Kentucky is neutral as well.
 
Last edited:
Top