Ok, your challange should you chose to accept it, is to find a way to make Germany the leading communist power after WWI. If you disagree that they could have give me your reasons. Also give me the conquesnes of Germany becoming a communist power rather than a fascist one. How does the Soviet Union react if this is an option ect....
AH Challenge; Germany leading Communist Power
- Thread starter Othniel
- Start date
better organization between Ernest Thalmann, Ernst Toller, Walther Ulbricht, Clara Zetkin, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht perhaps. Hold off the Spartacist Uprising, perhaps Luxemburg and Liebknecht realize the really dodged a bullet when von Baden pardoned all political prisoners and wait. Then in 1920 when Thalmann, Toller, Ulbricht Zetkin and co. form the German Communist Party Luxemburg and Liebknecht come with.
I don't know enough about Germany history to say when would be right to "spring the trap", but i think better leadership could only help the Communist cause. Also, just as the Nazis did the Communists must find a way to win the hearts of the German middle class.
I'm sure at first the SU would be ecstatic to have a Communist allie, but without doubt the brands of Communism would be divergent and polarize the Communist world between those who looked to Moscow and those who looked to Berlin for leadership. Think the Sino-Soviet conflict, just earlier.
I don't know enough about Germany history to say when would be right to "spring the trap", but i think better leadership could only help the Communist cause. Also, just as the Nazis did the Communists must find a way to win the hearts of the German middle class.
I'm sure at first the SU would be ecstatic to have a Communist allie, but without doubt the brands of Communism would be divergent and polarize the Communist world between those who looked to Moscow and those who looked to Berlin for leadership. Think the Sino-Soviet conflict, just earlier.
If the communists come to power by democratic means maybe Germany would follow the path of Sweden.* I think it would definitely be a more gentle form of communism than in Russia.
If it´s a revolution though...
One thought to consider, might a communist Germany not trigger a wave? It´s in the heart of Europe. Could Holland, Belgium, even France follow.
Although this might have a reverse effect as well. Stronger communism means that fascist have even more fear factor on their side.
*I know Sweden isn´t a communist country. I´m saying like Germany would maybe be a little more extreme, the state taking over more companies.
That makes them commies, but USSR remains the leading communist country though...
Glen
Moderator
Have the Ruhrkampf turn into a full scale revolution, which gets coopted by the Communists.
Or, have the Communists manage to take control of the Reichstag in 1933 and do to the Nazis what the Nazis did to the Communists OTL. Might be good to have Hindenburg die a bit earlier, since he won't allow Communists in the government.
Or, have the Communists manage to take control of the Reichstag in 1933 and do to the Nazis what the Nazis did to the Communists OTL. Might be good to have Hindenburg die a bit earlier, since he won't allow Communists in the government.
Straha
Banned
To Oth, Stalin Malone and anyone else doing a TL with Red Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_League
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_League
If the Communists come to power as a result of a succcessful Spartacist Revolution, then Ernst Thalman will probably come to power. If so, expect a Stalinist-type regime in Germany around the 1920's-1930's. If that happens after the success of the Communists in Russia, the result will be a far worse 1920's Red Scare at the very least, an earlier Second World War at the most.
If a Red Germany avoids or wins WWII, I could actually see them lasting. But they'd need to implement Chinese-style reforms in order to survive as a country. Maybe if they did that around the 1960's as in a scenario I just posted, they could acheive a kind of Superpower status.
If a Red Germany avoids or wins WWII, I could actually see them lasting. But they'd need to implement Chinese-style reforms in order to survive as a country. Maybe if they did that around the 1960's as in a scenario I just posted, they could acheive a kind of Superpower status.
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Its even more informative in German. Anyone reading this might also consider searching for the November Revolution. Tere are certain revolutions of the monarchy that could have seemed to gone further if the Commies timing was a bit better.
Not only the Reichswehr, but the Frei Corps as well. (a right winged paramillitary group) The Left was polarised by events. Now if the Second-wave of the November Revolution had been prolonged you get a stronger Spartacist League.
If done in tandem with the a Red Victiory then you have a timeline with inter-red competetion. Though if not you have an intresting dynamic happening in Eastern Europe.... as there is a bit of uncertainy there as well. Especially in Hungary.
However not their only problem. Any Räterepublik is going to face troubles...
We could see things form like this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic
Well what about where their support and leadership will come from? You also have increasily bad propagande comeing from Red counterparts in Russia.