What do you think would have happened if Texas never gained independence from Mexico?
What if Texas never gained its independence from Mexico?
- Thread starter bastard of bodom
- Start date
Anaxagoras
Banned
It depends on the exact POD. By the time Stephen F. Austin showed up with his colony of Anglos, Texan independence was inevitable. If Mexico never allowed Austin to come, then it is possible for Mexico to maintain Texas, in which case it would simply be the northeastern part of the country.
No great live music scene in Austin. Man, that would suck.
No great live music scene in Austin. Man, that would suck.
Faeelin
Banned
Gladi said:
To do this, Mexico would not have to be a civil war torn nation ruled by a brutal dictator who was taking away their religious liberties.
Remember, plenty of other parts of Mexico were launching rebellions at this time; it's just that Texas's succeeded, and the rest didn't.
I'm not to sure. Given a long enough time under Mexico and little oppertunity to replenish their anglo-stocks...Anaxagoras said:
In other words if Mexico doesn't become an Empire, and stays constutionalist for a long enough time, Texas very may well settle into that lifestyle. A very thin line given Texas's willfullness.
Remember, plenty of other parts of Mexico were launching rebellions at this time; it's just that Texas's succeeded, and the rest didn't.[/quote]
california succeeded too.
california succeeded too.
Are you saying Anglos won't assimilate?
(Drenched with pure sarcasm) The shoe is on the other foot today, isn't it? 170 years ago Amereicans were SNEAKING INTO MEXICO with the idea of taking over and for some reason that is looked at as WRONG????? Sure thing! On to 2006!
Today it is the Mexicans who are sneaking across the border, with the idea of taking over and NOT ASSIMILATING! The only thing to do is to react IN EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER THAT MEXICO DID! Isn't the example of history showing us what to do a wonderful tool? How soon can we recruit an American Santa Ana and send him or her to the border with orders to "get control"?
Gladi said:
(Drenched with pure sarcasm) The shoe is on the other foot today, isn't it? 170 years ago Amereicans were SNEAKING INTO MEXICO with the idea of taking over and for some reason that is looked at as WRONG????? Sure thing! On to 2006!
Today it is the Mexicans who are sneaking across the border, with the idea of taking over and NOT ASSIMILATING! The only thing to do is to react IN EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER THAT MEXICO DID! Isn't the example of history showing us what to do a wonderful tool? How soon can we recruit an American Santa Ana and send him or her to the border with orders to "get control"?
If the Anglos in Texas hadn't revolted, then there would be more white hispanics, and whe wouldn't have people in California WRONGLY saying that whites are a Minority in that state.
And California did Revolt, When they applied for Annexxation the US turned them down, So California set up the Great Bear Republic, only to be Annexed anyway after the end of the Am-Mex war.
And California did Revolt, When they applied for Annexxation the US turned them down, So California set up the Great Bear Republic, only to be Annexed anyway after the end of the Am-Mex war.
Well, obviously Mexico would be a richer country, what with all of Texas' oil!
And not only Texas. Does this timeline implies that all the Mexican territories lost during the Mexican-American war remain under Mexico? The you'll have the strongest Latin American state, by far.
And the USA would be considerably weaker.
And not only Texas. Does this timeline implies that all the Mexican territories lost during the Mexican-American war remain under Mexico? The you'll have the strongest Latin American state, by far.
And the USA would be considerably weaker.
Faeelin said:
To clarify, religious liberty was not part of the Mexican Constitution until the Reform in the 1850s (which was partly the result of shock at how badly the creole elite had screwed the country). Santa Ana was not taking away religious liberties, so much as enforcing Mexico City writ on a border province. Let us not forget that one of the issues was enforcing Mexico's anti-slavery laws. That said there were plenty of other liberties Santa Ana was screwing with, particularly his re-organization of the states.
Other rebellions certainly were taking place, most importantly in the South (Yucatan). There were even smaller rebellions in Couhila. And there was Latino participation in the Texas Revolt, even if the impetus was mainly Anglo. Chaos was pretty much inevitable given Santa Ana's non-leadership leadership. Still had the Anglos been sincere in their desire to live in a free Mexico, they could have pushed their army south after defeating Santa Ana at San Jacinto, united with other federalists, and created a freer constitution. (Monkeys could fly out of my butt too. Damn monkeys)
Ummm, Mexico has a boat-load of oil as it is. The Giant would just add to it, possibly leading to a serious conflict over nationalization in the 1930s (assuming things continue largely as they did). War for Mexican oil was chancy enough (had anyone but FDR been president, it could well have happened) during the OTL Depression when Texas and Oklahoma wildcatters were driving the price of oil below production (thus any more oil was hardly needed by the US). If the US had less oil than OTL, it might have been more willing to attack Mexico.atreides said:
I didn't specifically say that, although it is true. Austin and some of the more respectful settlers did convert to Catholicism. Also the Mexican government did push for Europeans, Czechs and Germans mainly, to settle in Texas. The result is a strong Czech-German subculture near Austin. And the most excellent Shiner Bock beer (even as a Midwestern who has major issues with Texas, I wholeheartedly applaud Shiner. Lone Star is puddle water though. instigate, instigate...)Gladi said:Marteldamned monkeys!
Did not you have to say that you are Roman Catholic to be allowed to settle in Mexico?
NapoleonXIV
Banned
I've looked into a TL where the original Texas Rebellion in 1816 becomes the actual Mexican rebellion, hooking up with the Batavians and the Napoleonic emigres under an escaped Napoleon. Not enough people there though.
In any case, Santa Ana bypasses the Alamo and catches Houston flat-footed at Gordito. After hanging most of the leaders as an example he addresses favorably most of the concerns which brought about the revolution in the first place. OTOH he flat out forbids any further American immigration and stations strong forces on the border.
Over the next years he puts in place a program to settle more Mexicans in Texas. As things evolve, Texas becomes the Mexican Siberia, with sometimes whole populations of recalcitrant Amerinds being taken from the Sierra Madre and Arizona to resettle along the US-Mexican border.
These are not easy neighbors for the Americans and the Mexicans, seeing them as an effective barrier to American encroachment if left to their hostile ways, make little attempt to make them less fractious
Meanwhile, Americans both in and out of Texas seethe at this and other indignities, and bide their time.
In any case, Santa Ana bypasses the Alamo and catches Houston flat-footed at Gordito. After hanging most of the leaders as an example he addresses favorably most of the concerns which brought about the revolution in the first place. OTOH he flat out forbids any further American immigration and stations strong forces on the border.
Over the next years he puts in place a program to settle more Mexicans in Texas. As things evolve, Texas becomes the Mexican Siberia, with sometimes whole populations of recalcitrant Amerinds being taken from the Sierra Madre and Arizona to resettle along the US-Mexican border.
These are not easy neighbors for the Americans and the Mexicans, seeing them as an effective barrier to American encroachment if left to their hostile ways, make little attempt to make them less fractious
Meanwhile, Americans both in and out of Texas seethe at this and other indignities, and bide their time.
a TX that didn't break away from Mexico would probably become American anyway... Mexico simply had all that northern territory they weren't using much and the US wanted it a lot. Note that the whole reason the Anglos came there in the first place was that Mexicans just didn't want to go there... without the American expatriates, the population would be tiny. TX is just too valuable... the US will start a war over the whole territory anyway, sooner or later....