AHC: Step Up, Peru

Inspired by the "Step Up, Peru" segment on last Sunday's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to put Peru in a position where it is expected by the international community to militarily intervene in a crisis on the other side of the planet. I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals.

Additional challenge, because almost anything is possible with an early enough POD, try to make your POD after Peruvian independence from Spain.
 
Inspired by the "Step Up, Peru" segment on last Sunday's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to put Peru in a position where it is expected by the international community to militarily intervene in a crisis on the other side of the planet. I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals.

Additional challenge, because almost anything is possible with an early enough POD, try to make your POD after Peruvian independence from Spain.

.............................................

Circa 1900 the Peruvian government forces German industrialists to apprentice young Peruvians as mining engineers, metallurgists (shelters), machinists (railroads), etc. in return for mining licenses.
Peru industrialized well ahead of OTL.
 
"I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals."

It's not ASB at all but it would require major changes. What Peru lacked was the will or desire to modernize on a grand scale. A talented dictatorship that made modernization a priority could certainly do so with the right POD. Japan and South Korea are examples of how fast a country can modernize and expand if the will is there.
 
"I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals."

It's not ASB at all but it would require major changes. What Peru lacked was the will or desire to modernize on a grand scale. A talented dictatorship that made modernization a priority could certainly do so with the right POD. Japan and South Korea are examples of how fast a country can modernize and expand if the will is there.
Yeah, that is the only problem, peruvian people (especially burguesy, oligarquy and political parties) don't like dictadorships, because, they know they will lose a lot of power and their status quo; for them people must be uneducated, and just survive; there were a few dictator who put us in the road of change, but all of them fall
 
Does Peru have to have the borders of modern Peru? An ATL where the Viceroyalty of Peru is never split up, and managed to either separate from Spain or becomes the New World kingdom of a Spanish royal claimant, could have an "Empire of Peru" stretching from the Rio de la Plata to the Panamanian isthmus.
 
I'd think including the idea of apprenticeships for Peruvian engineers is a good one. Create a situation where ground up modernization is encouraged and long term they'd be much better off.
 
I'd think including the idea of apprenticeships for Peruvian engineers is a good one. Create a situation where ground up modernization is encouraged and long term they'd be much better off.

That seems like a good idea to me. But I think I'll have to do some more research.
 
Does Peru have to have the borders of modern Peru? An ATL where the Viceroyalty of Peru is never split up, and managed to either separate from Spain or becomes the New World kingdom of a Spanish royal claimant, could have an "Empire of Peru" stretching from the Rio de la Plata to the Panamanian isthmus.

That wouldn't help anything, territory is not necessarily strength. Breaking the feudal system and having more industry than simple resource extraction is bigger than expansion.
 
That wouldn't help anything, territory is not necessarily strength. Breaking the feudal system and having more industry than simple resource extraction is bigger than expansion.

The OP wanted a major power that can project force across the globe. No matter how developed Peru is, from its current resource and population base it isn't going to be a major power. Perhaps a regional one, but not the kind of state that sends troops to the shores of Tripoli in the modern day. A unified Spanish South America, on the other hand, if federalized, could be a significant power even without drastic political changes from today.
 
The OP wanted a major power that can project force across the globe. No matter how developed Peru is, from its current resource and population base it isn't going to be a major power. Perhaps a regional one, but not the kind of state that sends troops to the shores of Tripoli in the modern day. A unified Spanish South America, on the other hand, if federalized, could be a significant power even without drastic political changes from today.

Except there can be an involvement extra-continentally, a strong modernized Peru can intervene in east asia, and I feel that meets the criteria.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
How large does the intervention has to be?

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to put Peru in a position where it is expected by the international community to militarily intervene in a crisis on the other side of the planet. I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals.

How large does the intervention has to be?

And can it be made as part of an alliance?

Obviously, if the Peruvians had chosen to do so (and the reasons why they chose not to are interesting), they could have sent an infantry battalion and/or air and naval units into action under US command during WW II, Korea, or either of the Gulf conflicts.

And Peru was certainly supported by the US during WW II with fairly significant levels of L-L, and they also got a reasonable amount of support in the early decades of the Rio Treaty, through MDAP and FMS.

Best,
 
As a peruvian I can say this. We could be at best as Brazil ... and that is pushing it.

Peru would need to change a lot socially starting with a bigger voice for the andes and amazon populations plus a bigger emphasis in industry which is hard considering that Peru has a lot of natural resurces and can live by only exploiting them.

Also rediscovering some agriculture practices from old times would help.

Basically The earlier POD would be in the independence war were the andes population help is appritiated and another POD to make the Peru-Bolivia COnfederation survive or even better yet Bolivian never existed and it was always part of Peru.

Then Peru STILL have to deal with Chile (hurr), Argentina, Brazil and Gran Colombia. CHile for obvious reasons, Argentina because it isn't in their interest a powerful Peru especially early on, Gran Colombia becaus eof the problems with the limits and such and Brazil because they took part of the peruvian amazonia (or so I have been told)
 
The problem is that Peruvian society was basically a copy of the spanish one. So what is needed?

A Native rebellion that was somewhat successful. Give me a Tupac Amaru III or a reborn Tupac Yupanqui whatever works there is a need to have at least parts of the andes under rebel control that are acknowleged by Bolivar and San Martin as crucial for the peruvian independence.
 
Here's a further back one, the treaty of Tordeliassas (butchered that phone problems) is enforced. Then we could see a much larger Peru that could be the TTL Brazil
 
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to put Peru in a position where it is expected by the international community to militarily intervene in a crisis on the other side of the planet.

A stronger Peru could possibly intervene in concert with some great powers, but I can't see it projecting power by itself, even with Bolivia and some added territory.
 
Hmmm, perhaps a regionally hegemonic Peru-Bolivia beats Chile in a war and receives Easter Island for their trouble. Under a populist-nationalist caudillo who launches significant internal reforms, Peru-Bolivia also expands outwards, into the Pacific. While they don't get much, they end up (by backing the right horses in diplomatic negotiations) with a mandate over Samoa. Eventual decolonization causes them to restore an independent Samoan republic, which during the modern day falls apart in a civil war. The Peruvians are expected by the international community to intervene in their sphere of influence, and end up sending a fleet with Marines to crack some heads and restore order.
 
As a peruvian I can say this. We could be at best as Brazil ... and that is pushing it.

Peru would need to change a lot socially starting with a bigger voice for the andes and amazon populations plus a bigger emphasis in industry which is hard considering that Peru has a lot of natural resurces and can live by only exploiting them.

Also rediscovering some agriculture practices from old times would help.

Basically The earlier POD would be in the independence war were the andes population help is appritiated and another POD to make the Peru-Bolivia COnfederation survive or even better yet Bolivian never existed and it was always part of Peru.

Then Peru STILL have to deal with Chile (hurr), Argentina, Brazil and Gran Colombia. CHile for obvious reasons, Argentina because it isn't in their interest a powerful Peru especially early on, Gran Colombia becaus eof the problems with the limits and such and Brazil because they took part of the peruvian amazonia (or so I have been told)
Argentina wouldn't be able to intervene in Peru for most of the 19th century. And beyond that, it's simply the status quo. The only war between Argentina and Brazil was in the 1820s and there never was a war between Argentina and Chile. I heard some Bolivian general declared war on Argentina during Rosas' time and Rosas never bothered to do anything realm about it. The Bolivian who started it called it over because he had none to fight with.

Here's a further back one, the treaty of Tordeliassas (butchered that phone problems) is enforced. Then we could see a much larger Peru that could be the TTL Brazil
I'm not sure. Where would Peru be expanding into? The Amazon jungle on the other side of the Andes? I don't see how they'd be able to exploit it.

"I ask in this forum because honestly I'm not confident in could be done with a post-1900 POD without some help from extraterrestrial flying mammals."

It's not ASB at all but it would require major changes. What Peru lacked was the will or desire to modernize on a grand scale. A talented dictatorship that made modernization a priority could certainly do so with the right POD. Japan and South Korea are examples of how fast a country can modernize and expand if the will is there.
And who are they selling to? Japan industrialized in the 19th century because they already had a large internal market and a highly literate population. South Korea industrialized in the 1950s because the USA opened its markets to South Korea and heavily subsided them.
 
Have the Spanish not so cohesively destroy the Inca Empire due to a harder, bloodier slog, and be forced to assimilate the aristocracy. This results in a more egalitarian Peru, as well as defining the borders of Peru by the borders of the Incan Empire; or essentially, create a Peru that embraces all of its peoples early on(or at least a lot more so than it ever did historically), and is considered a legal successor to the Inca. Or technically have Spain and the Inca under a personal union established by Catholic conquest, I dunno. Have gloryhound viceroy go charging southwards down the Andes in the name of emulating Pachacuti or Tupac Yupanqui, which results in Peru basically being equated with the Andes(and all of its mineral wealth) as well as establishing the trend of the viceroys having a lot of leeway.

Assuming we can't change Spain's historical flaws, have an especially ambitious viceroy rebel against the Spanish early on with French and English backing. And by early, I mean early 1700s early. I don't think an independent Peru/Hispanic Super Inca Empire is even possible before that date due to the extent of Spanish power. This 'Peru' would have borders stretching from Cali to the Tierra Del Fuego, in theory. The Spanish would most likely still be in the Rio de La Plata unless these Peruvian viceroys spearheaded colonization of the Pampas from Bolivia, which is unlikely at best.

From there, you've got a monarchial Peru that's supersized up and down the Andes in the early 1700s. Probably enough PoD potential to ensure at least parity with Brazil.
 
I'm not sure. Where would Peru be expanding into? The Amazon jungle on the other side of the Andes? I don't see how they'd be able to exploit it.

Yeah I wasn't very clear. I meant we could see the Viceroyalty of Peru being much larger like including CHile (OTL) and more of Rio Plata. While Rio Plata would be more of an Altantic nation then a Cone nation
 
After the Pacific War, the first presidency of Andrés Avelino Cáceres fares better, negotiating a more balanced Grace contract and expanding the railroad network inwards, instead of export-oriented only. Also, having rallied the native peasants for his Breña guerrilla campaign against Chile in the past, Cáceres knows their potential, and initiates a state policy of education and infrastructure building. In his second term he even gives natives some political rights, in order to integrate them in the incipient industrialization projects being built on Cusco, Arequipa, Cajamarca and Puno. These policies are continued by his successors. The 1904 earthquake hits Lima harder than OTL, prompting the change of the capital city from Lima to Cusco.

Meanwhile in Ecuador, Eloy Alfaro is deposed and killed by a Conservative coup in 1896, starting a long and gruesome civil war. After some shooting incidents with border guards, and terrible stories from Ecuatorian refugees, Peruvian troops occupy southern Ecuador and Guayaquil in 1903 with light resistance, for it was far better than the civil war. Order is restored and a new government is placed on Quito in 1904, but in December a parlamentary scandal triggers another coup and civil war. In 1905, Ecuador is occupied by Peruvian forces again, this time including Quito and northern cities. In 1906, tired after a decade of constant war, Ecuatorian citizens vote in a plesbicite for integration with Peru.

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Eloy Alfaro, the last liberal president of Ecuador​

Jorge Chavez' flight over the Alps doesn't end in tragedy. He survives, and using his contacts with French air entrepeneurs and the Peruvian government, he founds in 1912 (with private and state capital) the Compañía de Aviación Chávez-Blériot, which would be the seed for Peruvian aircraft industry. In this young company, several engineers and scientists would develop their talents, among them is a bright and innovative engineer named Pedro Paulet.

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Jorge Chávez, father of the Peruvian aeronautics

In Bolivia, the 1898 uprising of Pablo Zárate and José Manuel Pando is successful, but Zárate is betrayed and killed by Pando, and his native followers are scattered and demoralized. But they will remember the betrayal for years to come. Pando and his Liberal Party try to modernize the Bolivian state and harness the rising tin prices; but unlike OTL, it is harder to employ native workforce in the tin mines because they oppose Pando at every turn. This results in Pando's government becoming more authoritarian, and when tensions in the Acre region rise and Brazil threatens with sending troops, Pando calls the bluff instead of retreating and risking to look weak.

The Acre War is a disaster for the Bolivians, with their outnumbered and demoralized troops being hampered by native attacks on their logistical lines. In the end, the Brazilian government only takes the Acre region on dispute (they don't want to take any province with potentially hostile natives), but also extort heavy reparations, that shall come directly from the tin minimg profits. By 1901, Pando is deposed and a Conservative government takes hold, but having to pay reparations and with the national morale broken after another lost war, a multi-sided civil war erupts in 1904, with liberals, conservatives, natives and many caudillos fighting each other.

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President José Manuel Pando couldn't deal with the Bolivian indios​

In the end, Peruvian forces entered Bolivia in 1910 just like they did in Ecuador earlier, supported by natives who saw how Peruvian indios and mestizos were developing in the fledgling industries in the Peruvian Andes. By 1911, a plebiscite incorporates Bolivian territories and population into Perú.

This causes great alarm in Chile, but there is little they can do. Peru has been preparing for a land war for the last decade, and also secured an informal alliance with Argentina. While Chile was sure they would win in naval battles, but Peru was not as dependent from the coast as before, with their developing rail network and manufacturing structures in the Andes; and a possible war with Argentina would be a defensive nightmare for Chile. In the end , Peru promises that they will not expand further and will honor the Treaty of Ancon, as long as Chile makes the promised plebiscites on Tacna and Arica. Chile has no option but to accept, and restitutes these provinces to Peru, in exchange for a treaty that prevents further expansion. Argentina also wants to prevent Peru from becoming larger, but entangles in an alliance with them because in the end both nation's interests don't collide.

By the start of WW1, Peru and Argentina are allies and great trading partners, with a railroad connecting Cochabamba with Salta expanding commercial, industrial and scientific exchange. Both nations declare themselves neutral but profit from selling to both sides. After the end of the Great War, Peru tries to buy German industrial and scientific assets in the civilian and aviation industry, while Argentina does the same with naval elements. The effect of British economic troubles on Argentinian economy are not as severe as OTL thanks to greater trade with Peru, better internal market development, and trade with the US.

In the 1920s, Peru and Argentina deepen their trade and military ties, and while they participate in the global economy (and buy goods from the US), they will protect and develop key industries, that will not be affected as much during the Great Depression. One of these will be the aircraft industry, with the Compañía de Aviación Chávez developing the first indigenous airplanes for passenger travel in South America, such as the renowned Chávez NP-02. Meanwhile, Pedro Paulet was conducting large scale experimentation with rockets since the 1920s, after several attempts with smaller vessels since the early 1900s and designs of futuristic aircraft in Europe, where he met and befiended the young Wernher von Braun.

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Pedro Paulet's "Avión Torpedo", or how he imagined rocket propelled aircraft​

By the late 1930's both nations are well on their way to economic recovery, in no small part thanks to industrial investment on military assets. By 1937, Argentina launches the aircraft carriers ARA Independencia and ARA Veinticinco de Mayo in 1939, while Peru launches the BAP Coronel Bolognesi in that year (the flagship Almirante Grau is a WW1 dreadnought, modernized).

Both nations played an important role in WW2 as part of the Allied camp. Their fleets engaged Japanese vessels and sunk several destroyers, cruisers and a battleship, while they would send divisions on the invasion of Italy along the Brazilians. Meanwhile several fighters and medium bombers participated in Europe. But by far the most public Peruvian contribution to the war would be the entrance of the Chávez CAX-3 Cóndor, a "prototype" (near final version) jet fighter that gave a nasty surprise to the German Me-262 pilots in October 1944, for they were no longer the only nation with operational jets in combat roles.

When the war ended, Peruvian and Argentinian operatives were able to extract a few scientists and technicians from Germany, including von Braun, who kept in contact with Pedro Paulet through letters until 1945. He would further improve Peruvian aeronautic industry, and would participate in the joint space flight efforts between the United States, Canada, Peru, Argentina and Brazil, from the 1950s until his death in 1977.

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Wernher von Braun, chief of the Agencia de Investigación Aérea y Espacial del Perú​

Today Peru is a first world nation, with a prestigious aerospace industry, as well as electronics, naval and applied research endeavors. It participates in several United Nations peacekepping operations, and contributed in the Gulf War, the Bosnian War, the Irak War, among others. Peru is also contributing to the fight against Islamic insurgents with air power and special forces at this time.
 
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