MotM 2: A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Voting thread

Whose entry was best?

  • Jonathon Edelstein and Kaiphranos

    Votes: 31 34.1%
  • Dr. Nodelescu

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • B_Munro and Baconheimer

    Votes: 6 6.6%
  • islander

    Votes: 4 4.4%
  • Soverihn and Krall

    Votes: 9 9.9%
  • Makemakean and Ares96

    Votes: 8 8.8%
  • Reagent and Alex Richards

    Votes: 29 31.9%

  • Total voters
    91
  • Poll closed .

Krall

Banned
Sorry this thread is up so late - I usually read the descriptions of every entry before posting the voting thread, and tried to do the same thing with the timelines for this round (I got through most of them, but the length of "Boers and Griquas and Prisoners. Oh My!" made me reconsider my dedication).

Anyway, as the entries for this round consist of both timelines and map entries, I must ask you to consider both the timelines themselves and the maps when deciding whose entry was best - though your vote will not be disqualified if you decide to judge them based just on the maps or just on the timelines.

Here's a list of all the timelines written and entered for this round:

Nok Steel, by Jonathan Edelstein and Kaiphranos
Big Apple Crossrail: A Gap To Mind, by Dr. Nodelescu
The Purple Reigns Supreme, by B_Munro and Baconheimer
Look On My Works, by islander
The Lion's Roar, by Soverihn and Krall
The Crown of the Baltic, by Makemakean and Ares96
Boers and Griquas and Prisoners. Oh My!, by Reagent and Alex Richards

Even though this round had to be extended, and most entries were submitted very close to the deadline, I still think this was a very successful round! 7 entries is pretty good normally, but it's amazing when you consider that everyone had to make full timelines in addition to their maps. Every single entrant put in an admirable amount of effort into their writing, research, and cartography, and I'd like to thank all of you for making this rather experimental round a success! Thank you all! :D

Entries thread:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=319327
Main thread:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=170373

Edit: I just noticed I spelt "Jonathan" wrong in the poll - sorry about that. :eek:

Edit: Oh, and please note that you're not permitted to edit or add to your timelines during the voting period for this contest. Replies, questions and answers in the thread are all fine, but adding parts to the timeline itself or adding additional material like maps or other illustrations is not allowed. :)
 
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Damn. The secret plan to gain time to correct that spelling mistake has failed:p;).

I know what I'm going to be doing for the next three hours then.
 
Well, that proved very difficult. To discuss my thoughts in order (and try and get them on the page where I can review them):

1. Boers, obviously, would just be immoral.
2. Look upon my works felt very unfinished- the map didn't really feel like it had anything to do with the TL as written, a shame as the TL had definite promise. I'd be interested in seeing it continue in future.
3. The Purple Reigns Supreme had a similar, though less pronounced, issue in that a lot of sentences feel like it's the abridged working notes from preparing the TL rather than the finished project.
4. Big Apple Crossrail felt like it required a much greater foreknowledge of the NYC transit system as it currently is than is perhaps reasonable. Probably due to details being quite sparse.

That leaves Nok Steel, Crown of the Baltic and Lion's Roar, one of the most difficult choices I think I've ever had to make. There's pros and cons of all of them- Crown does a nice map progression (and city maps are so rarely done) but stops quite abruptly. Nok is just a fantastic concept and brilliantly well-written, but the subject matter means that the end map is, by definition, quite simple. Stylistically it works very well but it's just lacking the oomph that the TL itself has. Lion feels very well contained and the short 'snapshot of history' style is one which doesn't get done much in my experience- though the map's a little on the small side. I think this one perhaps feels most like an MOTF description expanded into a short TL in that it's relatively small scale in terms of the timeframe.

Overall, I think I like Crown's map best, but prefer Nok's TL, and Lion probably fits the idea of the map illustrating the TL the best in that you can basically see every update in the map. I think, perhaps, it's just at the point of feeling more like a short scenario or opening few chapters rather than a full TL. It's got the sense that you're setting the scene for a TL about Bulgaria dominating the Balkans, whereas Nok feels like a fully formed and completed TL.

I think for that reason Nok Steel narrowly wins it for me, but it's taken actually writing this out for me to make my mind up on this one, so good job everyone on the close contest. I think we're going to be seeing a few Turtledove nominations from this.
 
As others have mentioned, this is pretty difficult. :p

In the end, I think my vote goes to The Crown of the Baltic--the focus on a single city is an interesting approach, and one I haven't seen too often, and the map fits in with it very well. Lion's Roar and BaGaPOM! are both pretty close behind.
 
My choice was between Boers and Griquas and The Lion's Roar: the former combines an incredibly detailed South African federation with a vividly realized map, and the latter is the closest approach to the ideal of the challenge, with a map that illustrates the entire timeline. No, I won't say which one I voted for, but it was a very close call.

Honorable mention goes to Islander for his format and subject matter - the fact that the timeline jumped from the Bronze Age to 967 AD without really explaining how it got there took it out of consideration, but I'd like to see it continued. Also, although I consider Stockholm one of the world's most beautiful cities and am loath to see its glory overshadowed, I'd like to see Crown of the Baltic carried to the present day.

And then there's Nok Steel, of course, but as Alex said, that would be immoral.
 

Krall

Banned
I'm surprised how close "Nok Steel" and "Boers and Griquas and Prisonders. Oh My!" still are - maybe we'll see MotF's fourth ever tie-breaker Map Duel?
 

Krall

Banned
How would that even work for a Map of the Month round, anyway?
Especially one that's a map-timeline combination rather than just a map. Maybe a one-post timeline (or a single-post addition to the contest timeline) with a map to illustrate it?

I've thought about this, and I'm not quite sure. In Map Duels the Contest Overseer (moi) sets a challenge for the two entrants (or teams, in this case), who then have a technically unlimited amount of time to complete their entries. In the past this has just been a normal, unused challenge, but in this case it'd have to be something that has something specific for the writer half of the duo to do.

I discussed this with Reagent a while ago, but the best idea we could come up with is to rerun the same challenge (Make a timeline and a map). That or just doing a direct run-off poll with just the two tied entries as options, with a bit of time inbetween the end of this poll and the start of the run-off poll so the two teams can make changes to their timelines/maps if they want to, but I'd rather do a normal Map Duel using a challenge that has something for both a writer and a cartographer to do. Any ideas?
 
Oh, here's an idea. A DBWI set in the original TL. Not necessarily the initial PoD, but it would need to be something mentioned during the writing.
 

Krall

Banned
Oh, here's an idea. A DBWI set in the original TL. Not necessarily the initial PoD, but it would need to be something mentioned during the writing.

Not a bad idea - certainly better than my idea of having the tied teams write another "timeline" set in the same timeline as their first one.
 
Not a bad idea - certainly better than my idea of having the tied teams write another "timeline" set in the same timeline as their first one.

I'm not entirely sold on the DBWI idea. That may be due in part to my opinion of DBWIs in general, but I also think it's too narrow.

I'd propose something broader in scope: a single-post addition to the contest timeline - whether an epilogue, a prequel, a gap-filler, a more detailed treatment of something that was discussed in general terms in the original timeline, a narrative, a discussion of some other part of the world, or yes, a DBWI - with a map to illustrate it.
 
As this MotM offered a good variety of topics to make entry of as long as it became an own timeline, it's proper to use the losing entries as a narrow pool of duel maps. You order the non-dueling entries by their lack of success. If they ever tie among one another after the end of the ballot, this moment (August 7; 19:00 CEST) offers the order.

3 votes - Big Apple Crossrail
4 votes - islander
5 votes - B_Munro & Baconheimer
8 votes - Ares96 & Makemakean
9 votes - Soverihn & Krall

You extract one or two central themes out of these unlucky entries.

A - Make a map of a rapid transit system OR of an alternate New York City.
B - Make a map of an ancient empire in Eurasia that didn't exist IOTL.
C - Make a map of the world with a POD in the Late Middle Ages in Eurasia.
D - Make a map of an alternate planned capital. Similarities to the MotF 87 duel are not coincidental.
E - Make a map of an alternate Balkan in the Modern Age.

Let the duelists decide if they'd like to fight the duel with the specific topic of an ongoing letter. If A is rejected by either side, ask of B etc. and if even E is rejected, Krall would go free for all so the duelists would have an incentive to find a common topic.
 

Krall

Banned
I'm not entirely sold on the DBWI idea. That may be due in part to my opinion of DBWIs in general, but I also think it's too narrow.

I'd propose something broader in scope: a single-post addition to the contest timeline - whether an epilogue, a prequel, a gap-filler, a more detailed treatment of something that was discussed in general terms in the original timeline, a narrative, a discussion of some other part of the world, or yes, a DBWI - with a map to illustrate it.

Hmm, that should be okay, provided the other team agrees - as the challenge would technically be asymmetrical it might be considered unfair, but if both sides think it's fair then that would work. :)

As this MotM offered a good variety of topics to make entry of as long as it became an own timeline, it's proper to use the losing entries as a narrow pool of duel maps. You order the non-dueling entries by their lack of success. If they ever tie among one another after the end of the ballot, this moment (August 7; 19:00 CEST) offers the order.

3 votes - Big Apple Crossrail
4 votes - islander
5 votes - B_Munro & Baconheimer
8 votes - Ares96 & Makemakean
9 votes - Soverihn & Krall

You extract one or two central themes out of these unlucky entries.

A - Make a map of a rapid transit system OR of an alternate New York City.
B - Make a map of an ancient empire in Eurasia that didn't exist IOTL.
C - Make a map of the world with a POD in the Late Middle Ages in Eurasia.
D - Make a map of an alternate planned capital. Similarities to the MotF 87 duel are not coincidental.
E - Make a map of an alternate Balkan in the Modern Age.

Let the duelists decide if they'd like to fight the duel with the specific topic of an ongoing letter. If A is rejected by either side, ask of B etc. and if even E is rejected, Krall would go free for all so the duelists would have an incentive to find a common topic.

I see no good reason to use the non-winning entries as challenge ideas for the Map Duel, especially considering these would force certain constrictions on the duelists to work on map types or areas of history that they might have no knowledge or interest in - which is the kind of thing I try to avoid in MotF. I don't think I understand your ordering system or why you would order the different challenges like that, either.
 
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