A Parnell style welsh party from 1892 onwards under Lloyd George

Abdominalz · Apr 2, 2014

What if David Lloyd George had managed to to turn his vision for a welsh nationalist party (under the name Cymru Fudd) into reality, with CF becoming as popular in Wales as the Irish Parliamentary Party was in catholic Ireland by 1905, let's say? Cymru Fudd of course campaigning for disestablishment and Home rule.

If so, would CF and the IPP have held the Ballance of power in 1905?

Would welsh and Irish rule have both been granted and when?

Would welsh home rule be less controversial than Irish?

What would have happened without Lloyd George in the liberal cabinet?

How different would Wales and the rest of Britain and Ireland be different?

RPW@Cy · Apr 2, 2014

Abdominalz said:
What if David Lloyd George had managed to to turn his vision for a welsh nationalist party (under the name Cymru Fudd) into reality, with CF becoming as popular in Wales as the Irish Parliamentary Party was in catholic Ireland by 1905, let's say? Cymru Fudd of course campaigning for disestablishment and Home rule.

If so, would CF and the IPP have held the Ballance of power in 1905?

Would welsh and Irish rule have both been granted and when?

Would welsh home rule be less controversial than Irish?

What would have happened without Lloyd George in the liberal cabinet?

How different would Wales and the rest of Britain and Ireland be different?

Cymru Fydd. ("Young Wales" - Cymru Fudd means something like "Wales on benefits"

).

The big problem for the old goat will be what it was OTL - the bitter opposition of the South Wales Liberal Federation to the CF led Welsh National Federation proposal to merge into a single all-Wales federation. If instead of basically winding CF in response to this he led them out of the Liberal Party, then the best he can probably hope for is to win about half the Welsh seats - those in mostly Welsh speaking areas, which even then were less than half the country - which probably isn't enough to tip the balance of power except in very rare circumstances.

The more interesting knock on will be how WW1 goes with DLG nowhere near government...

Abdominalz · Apr 2, 2014

RPW@Cy said:
Cymru Fydd. ("Young Wales" - Cymru Fudd means something like "Wales on benefits").

The big problem for the old goat will be what it was OTL - the bitter opposition of the South Wales Liberal Federation to the CF led Welsh National Federation proposal to merge into a single all-Wales federation. If instead of basically winding CF in response to this he led them out of the Liberal Party, then the best he can probably hope for is to win about half the Welsh seats - those in mostly Welsh speaking areas, which even then were less than half the country - which probably isn't enough to tip the balance of power except in very rare circumstances.

The more interesting knock on will be how WW1 goes with DLG nowhere near government...

Why exactly were the southerners opposed to Lloyd George?

Alex Richards · Apr 2, 2014

Abdominalz said:
Why exactly were the southerners opposed to Lloyd George?

Partly because South Wales was (and is) predominately English Speaking unlike the Welsh Speaking Gwynedd, partly because even the Welsh spoken in Gwynedd is very different to that spoken in Glamorgan, and partially for just generally differing cultural and economic viewpoints and focuses.

Abdominalz · Apr 2, 2014

Alex Richards said:
Partly because South Wales was (and is) predominately English Speaking unlike the Welsh Speaking Gwynedd, partly because even the Welsh spoken in Gwynedd is very different to that spoken in Glamorgan, and partially for just generally differing cultural and economic viewpoints and focuses.

In 1901 half the population spoke welsh, compared to 20 percent today. If industrial South Wales had remained welsh speaking miraculously despite the industrial revolution, would that have helped in anyway at all?