Fatimid Conquest of Al-Andalus?

Huehuecoyotl

Monthly Donor
In the years before Abd ar-Rahman III took the throne in Córdoba, the state of al-Andalus was a sorry one indeed. Central authority was at somewhat of a nadir, and large portions of the country answered to local kings and brigands, mostly ignoring the authority of the emir. At the same time, the Fatimid dynasty in Ifriqiya was on the rise, by the time of Abd ar-Rahman III's rule already posing a significant threat - but one that capable caliph succeeded in opposing.

If the trend of devolution of central authority in al-Andalus had continued, leading perhaps to an earlier incidence of something like the Taifa periods, could the young Fatimid dynasty have succeeded in subsuming the peninsula to its will, as seemed to be the habit of later North African empires like the Almoravids and Almohads? If it had, could control have been maintained for more than a generation or so? What would the implications have been of the introduction of their particular brand of Shi'a Islam to Andalusi society?
 

Razgriz 2K9

Banned
Let's face it, I'm not going to attempt to make a best answer because I haven't the slightest clue the cultural consequences of these shenanigans...granted, I don't see a wholesale conversion to Shia Islam though...
 

Huehuecoyotl

Monthly Donor
What if the Fatimids had gone Into Al-Andalus

... Yeeees?

Largely depends on how strong their control is over the Maghreb.

It was at its strongest at about this time. The Fatimids didn't conquer and center themselves in Egypt until 969 CE, so at this time the capital and center of gravity of their conquests is at Mahdia in Tunisia.

Let's face it, I'm not going to attempt to make a best answer because I haven't the slightest clue the cultural consequences of these shenanigans...granted, I don't see a wholesale conversion to Shia Islam though...

Neither do I, to be honest; we would expect the same sort of resistance to Ismailism in Al-Andalus as we saw historically in the Maghreb and Egypt under Fatimid rule, but I still have to imagine it may have made an imprint of some kind.
 

Huehuecoyotl

Monthly Donor
This premise is still occupying my mind quite a bit, and I was curious if anyone knew of some good (preferably online) sources on the Fatimid Caliphate I could refer to.
 
If I get this right the OP is : What if a early fitna lead to a Fatimid invasion, if Abd al-Rahman failed to unify the peninsula?

That's actually technically doable, and historically some of the rebels, ibn Hafsun in particular, acknowledged fatimid overlordship.

Still, there's several points that would represent an issue :

- Fatimids were Chiits. Religious identity was in middle ages the main identity factor, and islamic or ismalised population isn't going to be that much enthusiast about it. Ibn Hafsun "forgot" to tell his followers about that, for instance.

- Maghrib : the whole region served as a shield between Ifriqiya (whatever fatimid, aghlabid, or else) and Al-Andalus. By the IX century, it wasn't yet controlled/clientelised by Cordoba but the mosaic of berber states and tribes is going to represent an huge obstacle.
OTL, it was done by the fourth fatimid caliph, and it was no little feat.

- Emiral power : at the end of IX and beggining of X, the population grew really tired of the wars and wanted some maintened peace. Contrary to OTL Fitna era, where the caliphal authority was gone, due to no caliph, the young Abd al Rahman still had some ressources.
A bigger territory than the caliphes wannabes in the XI, tributes from autonomous and independent governors, and a still rather intact institutional authority (if challenged).

- Arabo-andalusian rebels (please make the distinction there between Arabs, Arabized, Berbers and Christians : the andalusian society was really divided along these lines) are more likely to follow Cordoba's against a threatening berber dynasty.

It could even be one of the reasons why Abd al Rahman III did managed to retake control of the peninsula historically. While taifas eventually called for help berbers and relativly not fought them after, fatimids would be probably more fought against.

- Egypt a no-go : Egypt was wealthier, more vulnerable. You'll need to change it so that it looks less tempting as a prey than Spain.

Assuming fatimids manage to bypass all of that, I suppose that they could conquer a good part of Al-Andalus by the end of X century.

It would be quite changed than OTL : a failing caliphal authority would probably mean a more successful Asturias/Leon. Both by conquest, and by influence (forcing tributes on neighbouring Muslim governors).
Of course sucession crisis would probably still happen somehow, but Leon would have a better chance overall even if fatimids could pull and almoravid on them.

If Banu Qasi (depending on the PoD) manage to keep an hold on upper and/or lower Ebre valley, you could have a relativly important Muladi state in N-E Al-Andalus (if it helps, a map) that could, if fatimids try to do it smoothly, serve as a buffer region between Franks, Leonese and Fatimids in the region.

Finally, as Fatimid conquest would depend eventually on allies they could have on the peninsula, I suspect that Ibn Hafsun-like rebellions would be awarded with lands, autonomy if not independence de facto.

Eventually, a fatimid victory could have meant a muladi political victory as well.

Would fatimids have been able to make a lasting conquest? I don't think so.
The issue with Ancient North African empires is their tendency to split up really quickly : OTL fatimids have just conquered Egypt when Maghrib and Ifriqyia get off the radar, Almoravids and Almohads had to pratically use Al-Andalus as an autonomous viceroyalty in order to keep it.

They key is the control of Maghrib : once lost, keeping control of Al-Andalus and North Africa in the same time is more than tricky, and fatimids wouldn't have power bases enough in Spain to afford loosing North Africa too soon.

Finally, the structural instability of medieval islamic states isn't going to help at all.

In the meanwhile, they could introduce shia introduction : historically, some tried to go it smoothly (as mentioned, introducing shia prayers without telling people it was shia prayers) but at the end it would have been pretty obvious.
I suppose a indigenous shia elite could appear, but definitely not Arab : probably Muladi or Berber.
 

Huehuecoyotl

Monthly Donor
Thanks for the input, LS. I can always count on your expertise in this area. :D I know the Ismaili faith of the Fatimids will make paving their way in Sunni Spain a bit rocky, but I think that's part of the fun.

The prevailing desire in al-Andalus at this point may have been for an end to the civil strife, but provided that it flares up once more, concurrent with, say, Egypt being better defended and thus a bit more prickly a fruit for the Fatimids to try to swallow, might this have opened a window to Fatimid interest in Spain?

And just out of curiosity where would the Idrisids of Morocco (also Shi'ites) probably fit into this picture?
 
I know the Ismaili faith of the Fatimids will make paving their way in Sunni Spain a bit rocky, but I think that's part of the fun.
You know that much people prefers a tv show rather than practicing an extreme sport right? :D

The sad part is that I agree with you...

The prevailing desire in al-Andalus at this point may have been for an end to the civil strife, but provided that it flares up once more, concurrent with, say, Egypt being better defended and thus a bit more prickly a fruit for the Fatimids to try to swallow, might this have opened a window to Fatimid interest in Spain?
I suppose it could, but as I said, Egypt shouldn't known the semi-anarchic situation it was into, and that requires a really good PoD.
Admitting we have such : fatimids should really be ready for a hard conquest, and keep control of both western mediteranean basin (should be relativly doable) and Maghrib (that's going to hurt) during the conquest and after in order to keep control of.

Most Arabo-Andalusian would simply refuse the idea of a shia berber ruling them if they can do such. Most rebels should join with the cordoban emir on this.

Less than an open window than to break out a disfunctional house.

And just out of curiosity where would the Idrisids of Morocco (also Shi'ites) probably fit into this picture?
Well they were Shi'ites, but they also descended from Fatima and literraly tried to to become Caliph instead of the Caliph (God I wanted to do this one since so many time), or at least to Maghrib and would probably switch sides (Fatimids, Umayyad, their own) several times.

At best, they turn as an uneasy vassal of Fatimids, their power greatly reduced due to troubles and rebellions they would launch.
At worst, Fatimids do what Umayyads did : wiping them out the picture.
 

Huehuecoyotl

Monthly Donor
It definitely seems like lasting Fatimid rule isn't to be even if they were to conquer Spain, but it seems as if it could still affect al-Andalus greatly. So two more questions for your opinion on the matter before I slink off to plot:

Would significant numbers of muladis and Berbers have had any interest in adopting and perhaps even innovating on Ismaili Islam, apart from the elites?

And further, were most of the warlords, rebels, and other vagabonds to unite behind the person of the emir in Cordoba to face the invaders, do you think it might have had any lasting effect on the cohesion of Andalusi society? Or would they have just collapsed into petty taifa states in a hundred years or so any way?
 
Would significant numbers of muladis and Berbers have had any interest in adopting and perhaps even innovating on Ismaili Islam, apart from the elites?
Hard to say : not only it depend on how well fatimids fare.
Interestingly, due to more contradiction in al-andalusian society, shia could do better than it did in Egypt *if* fatimids manage to hold the peninsula long enough to have more than superficial conversions (and that wouldn't be easy) or if another shia power replace them.

If not, it would remain probably as minoritary than OTL situation.

And further, were most of the warlords, rebels, and other vagabonds to unite behind the person of the emir in Cordoba to face the invaders, do you think it might have had any lasting effect on the cohesion of Andalusi society? Or would they have just collapsed into petty taifa states in a hundred years or so any way?
The latter, probably. Emirs/Caliphes were expected to fight Christian or heretics after all, so there wouldn't be something new there.
 
Interestingly, due to more contradiction in al-andalusian society, shia could do better than it did in Egypt *if* fatimids manage to hold the peninsula long enough to have more than superficial conversions (and that wouldn't be easy) or if another shia power replace them.

How so? That sounds quite interesting...
 
How so? That sounds quite interesting...

The Andalusian society was really more divided along tribal and "ethnic" lines that other Arabo-Muslims states of the same period.

You had, by the early X century, roughly 3 "factions" (whom no one is actually unified)
- Arabs : a minority even among Muslims, but that managed to monopolize high posts of power (it's one of the reason Umayyads were welcomed by Arabo-Andalusians eventually, as the dynasty looked like the champion of Arabs in face of non-Arabs)
- Berber : the vas majority of invaders and their descent. They had few to none peninsular role, were more present in peripherical lands. Even while they arabized, they were considered lowy
- Muladi (more correctly muwallad) were converts or their descent from hispano-gothic origin (the bulk of muslim andalusian population).

You could admittedly add Jews, but they played a separated role, Saqaliba (former "Slavic", understand there every slave that wasn't black even if they were sometimes included as such) but they didn't played a real role in the IX/X revolts, and Mozarabs and Neo-Mozarabs (christians from North settling Al-Andalus after the IX/X century) that when implicated tended to go with Muladi.

Summarizing it, the more you were culturally arabized, the more chances you had to have a good social position and to be considered : for instance mozarabs means exactly that "arabized".

Still, Arab propers conserved the most power and tribal feature depsite their relative few numbers (even if they nevertheless tended to include muladi), while muladi were in rivalty with Arab and Berber settlers (less the first invaders than later new comers) and supported with difficulty "foreign" rule (at the point that during Ibn marwan revolt, many muladi left Marida, under berber rule to join him).

Of course it's not as simple, but due to the "ethnic" mosaic that in Al-Andalus was more important than elsewhere, it nevertheless played a great role.

Eventually, these contradictions were never really solved (while during the X century, caliphal power managed to calm down tensions, it was only to bring even more Berbers of fresh immigration in their caliphate) and eventually taifas were characterised by their ruling ethnicity (arab, berber, saqaliba, etc.)

Even (and critically) at the Umayyad caliphate, these tensions weren't pretty : during the siege of Cordoba in 1013, you had a litteral epuration and hunt against Berbers that were present in the city, and you have the 1066 massacre of Grenada's Jews.

See, Umayyad Al-Andalus was of the most important powers of Europe (heck, even the most important after carolingian collapse) and his reputation of prosperity is well earned. But while you had a relative religious laxity (rather than religious tolerance), the tribal/"ethnic" (it's not really the right word but it prevents me to go trough circumlocution) differences were really important.
 
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