WI/AHC: Abbasid movable type

The title makes my intent with this thread abundantly clear. The Abbasid Caliphate experienced one of the greatest intellectual flourishings in human history. What if we added movable type printing technology to that?

How could such a technology be achieved? When? Who? Where? What consequences could this have for Islamic civilization? And the world?

Alkahest said:

The title makes my intent with this thread abundantly clear. The Abbasid Caliphate experienced one of the greatest intellectual flourishings in human history. What if we added movable type printing technology to that?

How could such a technology be achieved? When? Who? Where? What consequences could this have for Islamic civilization? And the world?

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Arabic is written in a connected form, so the European style type is impossible unless there is a separate form of Arabic that I'm not aware of. And what is the Arabic declension system like? If not very extensive, a Chinese style dictionary-like type is possible.

Sharunaku said:

Arabic is written in a connected form, so the European style type is impossible unless there is a separate form of Arabic that I'm not aware of. And what is the Arabic declension system like? If not very extensive, a Chinese style dictionary-like type is possible.

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That's not actually much of an obstacle... One just has to produce tiles for initial, medial, and final forms of the letters.

Sharunaku said:

Arabic is written in a connected form, so the European style type is impossible unless there is a separate form of Arabic that I'm not aware of. And what is the Arabic declension system like? If not very extensive, a Chinese style dictionary-like type is possible.

Click to expand...

Actually that exists. I forget the name but Arabic with separate characters does exist in this time period.

The Abbasids probably wouldn't get much further than the Chinese and Indians of the period who both used woodcut printing (but not moveable type) for both text and images. This type of printing has obvious drawbacks, among them, the material's longevity.

Something that might work for discussion purposes would be ceramic block printing, which the Song Dynasty Chinese developed, along with true moveable type, at the turn of the 11th C. Could the Abbasids have beaten the Song (who I think were more technically advanced than even the Abbasids at their most brilliant flowering) at developing something like this 2 centuries earlier?

NikoZnate said:

That's not actually much of an obstacle... One just has to produce tiles for initial, medial, and final forms of the letters.

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I agree with this notion.

Herzen's love-child said:

Something that might work for discussion purposes would be ceramic block printing, which the Song Dynasty Chinese developed, along with true moveable type, at the turn of the 11th C. Could the Abbasids have beaten the Song (who I think were more technically advanced than even the Abbasids at their most brilliant flowering) at developing something like this 2 centuries earlier?

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Probably not so much the Abbasids defeating the Song, but the Liao/Jin dynasties defeating the Song (a pretty common occurrence), stealing a copy of the type, then it travelling along the silk road (maybe by Abbasid diplomats) all the way back to Baghdad.

I'm pretty sure that even without connecting letters it would be possible to read Arabic (even if it might take a bit of time to get used to the new style).

eliphas8 said:

Actually that exists. I forget the name but Arabic with separate characters does exist in this time period.

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I guess you mean Kufic. Letters are still connected, but it would be better suited for a moveable type than later (say, about after 1000 AD) styles. By the way, reading Arabic with separate letters, while theoretically possible, is potentially conducive to some ambiguities (specifically, it would be difficult to tell a middle alif from a middle lam if neither connects to its left).

profxyz said:

Probably not so much the Abbasids defeating the Song, but the Liao/Jin dynasties defeating the Song (a pretty common occurrence), stealing a copy of the type, then it travelling along the silk road (maybe by Abbasid diplomats) all the way back to Baghdad.

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I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the Abbasids get ceramic moveable type by military means, but of the prospect of an Abbasid inventor coming up with the idea independently. By the time the Song developed the technology OTL the Abbasids were well past their peak in innovation and in power. But the tech being imported by the means you suggest ---via a 3rd party --- could work.

The paper would probably be made out of hemp as wood pulp was more expensive.

As well, it'd reach Europe alot faster, either through the Byzantines or Al-Andalus, which has its own set of consequences.