Optimal borders

So a new thing has cropped up on DeviantArt recently in mapmaking: the concept of polling people for the optimal borders of a region or country. Here's how it works:

A region or country and surrounding areas are divided up into smaller regions and numbered 1 through however many regions there are. Then people are asked to rate how integral to the region or country in question they are as an alternate history exercise in creating the optimal borders of a country. Here are some examples for you:

New England:

1. Greater Boston
2. Massachusetts North Shore
3. Cape Ann
4. Massachusetts South Shore
5. Merrimack Valley
6. MetroWest
7. Cape Cod
8. Massachusetts Islands
9. Southeastern Massachusetts
10. Massachusetts South Coast
11. Blackstone Valley
12. Central Massachusetts
13. Pioneer Valley
14. The Berkshires
15. Providence County
16. Kent County
17. Newport and Bristol Counties
18. Washington County, Rhode Island
19. Block Island
20. Quiet Corner
21. Greater New London
22. Greater Hartford
23. MidState Connecticut Region
24. Lower Connecticut Valley
25. Central Connecticut
26. Greater New Haven
27. Central Naugatuck Valley
28. Litchfield Hills
29. Greater Danbury
30. Gold Coast
31. Connecticut Panhandle
32. Long Island
33. Fishers Island
34. Monadnock Region
35. New Hampshire Seacoast
36. Dartmoth-Lake Sunapee
37. New Hampshire Lakes Region
38. White Mountains
39. Great North Woods
40. Northeast Kingdom
41. Washington County, Vermont
42. Eastern Champlain Valley
43. Addison County
44. Green Mountains
45. Orange County, Vermont
46. Windsor County
47. Windham County
48. Maine South Coast
49. Mid Coast
50. Kennebec Valley
51. Maine Lake Country
52. Maine Highlands
53. Downeast Maine
54. Charlotte County
55. Saint John Valley
56. Madawaska County
57. North Coast of New Brunswick
58. Acadian Peninsula
59. Miramichi Valley
60. Kent County
61. Greater Moncton
62. Greater Shediac
63. Tantramar
64. North Shore of Nova Scotia
65. Eastern Shore
66. Cape Breton
67. Annapolis Valley
68. Southern Nova Scotia
69. Prince Edward Island
70. New York City
71. Westchester County
72. Rockland County
73. Orange County, New York
74. Taconic Mountains
75. Catskills
76. New York Capital Region
77. Washington County, New York
78. Adirondacks
79. Western Champlain Valley
80. North Country of New York
81. Central New York
82. Finger Lakes Region
83. Wayne County
84. Monroe County
85. Livingston County
86. Wyoming County
87. Niagara Frontier
88. Southern Tier of New York
89. Greater Halifax
90. Newfoundland/Labrador/St Pierre and Miquelon (please specify if you rate them differently)
91. Gaspesie Peninsula
92. Access to the St Lawrence River
93. Other parts of Quebec
94. Western Reserve (modern-day northern Ohio)
95. Westmoreland County (northern Pennsylvania)
96. Other southern expansion (please specify)

Hungary:

1. Hungary
2. Southern Slovakia
3. Slovakia
4. Uzhgorod
5. Eastern Slovakia
6. Subcarpathian Rus
7. Northern Crisana
8. Southern Crisana
9. Northern Transylvania
10. Székely Land
11. Rest of Romania
12. Subotica
13. Novi Sad
14. Beli Manastrit
15. Hungarian Croatia (before Treaty of Trianon)
16. Dalmatia
17. Bosnia
18. Murska Sobota
19. Burgenland

Poland:

1 – West Galicia - (includes Kraków/Cracow),
2 – Spisz/Spiš and Orawa/Orava - beyond interwar Polish-Czechoslovakian borders,
3 – Cieszyn/Teschen - Silesia beyond interwar Polish-German borders,
4 – Upper Silesia - up to interwar Polish-German borders,
5 – Upper Silesia - between interwar Polish-German borders and Korfanty Line,
6 – Upper Silesia - between Korfanty Line and plebiscite area borders,
7 – Greater Poland - Core (includes Poznań/Posen),
8 – Greater Poland - Outer (meant to represent less favorable Polish-German border in Greater Poland, includes Leszno/Lissa and Grodzisk/Grätz),
9 – Greater Poland - Noteć/Netze region (includes Bydgosz/Bromberg),
10 – The Corridor - Ziemia chełmińska/Kulmerland (includes Toruń/Thorn, Chełmo/Kulm and Działdowo/Soldau),
11 – The Corridor – Core,
12 – The Corridor – Coast,
13 – (meant represent more less favorable Polish-German border including most claims),
14 – The Corridor – Gdańsk/Danzig,
15 – East-Prussia - Powiśle (includes Malbork/Marienburg, Kwidzyn/Marienwerder and Iława/Eylau),
16 – East-Prussia - Southern (up to plebiscite borders, includes Olsztyn/Allenstein),
17 – East-Prussia - Core (includes Królewiec/Königsberg/Kaliningrad),
18 – East-Prussia - Klaipėda/Memel,
19 – Lithuania - Core (includes Kowno/Kaunas),
20 – Lithuania - (meant to represent more favorable Polish-Lithuanian border and more territories with significant Polish population),
21 – Lithuania - extension of ‘Vilnius corridor’ up to Latvia (approximately territories between interwar and modern Polish-Lithuanian borders),
22 – Lithuania - ‘Vilnius corridor’ (approximately territories between interwar and modern Polish-Lithuanian borders, includes Wilno/Vilnius),
territories between interwar and modern Polish-Lithuanian borders),
23 – Lithuania - Sudovia up to river Niemen/Neman, Neman west-bank (part of former Suwałki Governate & Congress Poland, includes Marijampolė/Mariampol),
24 – Podlachia - Suwałki/Suvalki,
25 – Podlachia - (includes Augustów/Augustavas and Grodno/Hrodna),
26 – Podlachia – Białystok region,
27 – Podlachia – Brześć/Brest region,
28 – Volhynia - (approximately former Chełm Governate, east of Curzon Line A, meant to represent less favorable post-Russian border with Ukraine, includes Chełm/Kholm and Zamość/??)
29 – West Galicia – (east of Curzon Line A, meant to represent less favorable post-Austro-Hungarian border with Ukraine, includes Przemyśl/Peremyshl and Rzeszów/Riashiv)
30 – Latvia – Dyneburg/Daugavpils/Dünaburg
31 – Latvia – Latgalia (includes Rzeżyca/Rēzekne)
32 – Ruthenia – (north of Niemen/Neman river, between Central Lithuania and interwar Polish-Soviet border)
33 – Ruthenia - extension of ‘Vilnius corridor’ up Central Lithuana border
34 – ?? – (includes Wołkowysk/Vawkavysk and Lida)
35 – Podlachia – (includes Kobryń/Kobryn)
36 – Volhynia – (between Curzon Line A and Styr River includes Kowel/Kovel and Włodzimierz Wołyński/Volodymyr-Volynskyi)
37 – Galicia - Lvov Region (territories between Curzon Lines A and B, includes Lwów/Lviv/Lemberg)
38 – Subcarpathian Ruthenia
39 – Podlachia – (south of Neman river, includes Pińsk/Pinsk
and Baranowice/Baranovichi)
40 – Volhynia – (between Styr river and interwar Polish-Soviet border, includes Równe/Rivne)
41 – Galicia - Core - (includes Stanisławów/Stanyslaviv/Ivano-Frankivsk)
42 – Galicia - Ternopil Region - (includes Tarnopol/Ternopil)
43 – Galicia - Pokuttya - (includes Kołomyja/Kolomyia)
44 – Bukovina
45 – Ruthenia – Core Belarus (includes Mińsk/Minsk)
46 – Podolia – (includes Kamieniec Podolski/ Kamianets-Podilskyi)
47 – Podolia – (includes Żytomierz/Zhytormyr and Bracław/Bratslav)

Sea Access – Secured regardless of land territories. For example it might represent either land connection to ports in the Corridor or Lithuania, ports in enclaves with exterritorial connection, condominium over ports or secured trade rights in neutral port.
Upper Silesia Industrial Region – Secured regardless of other Upper Silesian territories.

Opinions?

The Poland one has already been done to death.

These are very cool. I have seen the Poland one on here and also on a blog called strangemaps. Poland and Hungary seem useful for AH.

New England is clearly defined though, at least in modern times. It's actually the only region in the US that is very clearly defined. You could argue that Fairfield county CT or maybe the St. John Valley region in ME isn't really New England due to outside influence. I guuueeeess you could also put Long Island, the Adirondacks, Hudson Valley and basically all of the Maritimes in "Greater New England" due to shared culture. But New England is still 6 states with static borders so any cultural spill-over is kind of secondary. It's not like the South where people could argue forever about whether Kentucky, WV, West Texas and South Florida apply. At the end of the day even people who work in Manhattan and root for the Yanks in SW Connecticut are, regrettably, New Englanders.

Interesting how the Hungary one has the entirety of modern Hungary as one region. I guess Hungary is as small as it could be, but could be a whole lot bigger.

GrandpaTanaka said:

New England is clearly defined though, at least in modern times. It's actually the only region in the US that is very clearly defined. You could argue that Fairfield county CT or maybe the St. John Valley region in ME isn't really New England due to outside influence. I guuueeeess you could also put Long Island, the Adirondacks, Hudson Valley and basically all of the Maritimes in "Greater New England" due to shared culture. But New England is still 6 states with static borders so any cultural spill-over is kind of secondary. It's not like the South where people could argue forever about whether Kentucky, WV, West Texas and South Florida apply. At the end of the day even people who work in Manhattan and root for the Yanks in SW Connecticut are, regrettably, New Englanders.

Click to expand...

And that's why I made the map. There's enough ambiguity in there to warrant a poll of the optimal hypothetical New England state or region with a single culture or the highest possible cultural homogeneity.

VT45 said:

And that's why I made the map. There's enough ambiguity in there to warrant a poll of the optimal hypothetical New England state or region with a single culture or the highest possible cultural homogeneity.

Click to expand...

And don't get me wrong, I'm glad you made it. It's very cool and I will be coloring it in with the Poland's map colors when I get a chance.

Is there any way you could break up Long Island though? all of Suffolk county used to be New England, but I think the only area that really could be argued to share New England culture now is the 'North Fork'. Also, maybe include parts of Quebec. The Eastern townships were home to many settlers from New England and have english town names and some influence of the New England town. (If it's too much work, forget it. They would only be getting a maybe from me at best, and I can always use the arrow)

I'm surprised that the New England map has an option for the Western Reserve but not for the Erie Triangle.
And as far as I know the Poland map originated on AH.com; heck, I was there when the thread was active (not sure if I actually posted in it though).

How on earth is Long Island more integral to New England than Vermont, most of New Hampshire, and Maine? Or am I misunderstanding this?

EDIT: Wait. I think I did misunderstand this.

Poland, what I think.

The perfect Poland.

I really like this kind of activity. I'd love to see some for other countries. I think Germany needs one, as well as Post Napoleonic France.

Further German expansion is "Keep out" however, I'm unsure if there was a Polish population in Eastern Pommerania or not. If so then I'd include that part as Priority 3.