Sweet Dew: A Tang China Timeline

So, almost one year after my failed previous attempt at a timeline, I've decided to try again. This time, the POD is the Sweet Dew Incident in 835 during China's Tang Dynasty. I haven't fully fleshed out the ideas: I was seized by inspiration today, and I finished my initial ideas about China. Eventually, I'll make everything past tense. But for now, these are just preliminary ideas. Names are a weakness: I didn't put too much thought into them, so there's probably a hilarious Chinese pun in there that I missed. If you see this, or anything that seems like a mistake or doesn't make sense, just point it out to me. And without further ado ...

Sweet Dew: A Tang Timeline

In 835, the Emperor Wenzong (唐文宗) in our timeline (OTL) attempted to curb the power of China's eunuchs through the Sweet Dew Incident (ganluzhibian 甘露之變), where he intended to trap and kill the eunuchs who were coming to dominate China's government. Historically, he failed, and the eunuchs massacred Wenzong's Confucian allies and essentially imprisoned the Emperor. In this timeline, Wenzong succeeds, and the eunuchs are massacred instead. This change of events prolongs the life of the Tang Dynasty by almost a century. When the Tang Dynasty does collapse, the resulting turn of events is far different. The Song, Liao, Jin, Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties will not exist in this timeline. The title is “A Tang Timeline” though the story will continue, hopefully, till the present day. What follows first is a history of China, in the form of an outline of Tang Emperors until the alternate collapse of that dynasty:

List of Tang Emperors

Li Ang (李昂), Emperor Wenzong of Tang (唐文宗): 827-855
After defeating the eunuchs and massacring most of them, the power of the eunuchs is halted, for now. By resolving a dispute between his consorts, Li Ang manages to ensure that his son and heir, Li Yong, survives. In addition, he continues switching between the Niu and Li factions for a while, but he settles on Li Deyu, purely by chance, before largely retiring to his pursuits of poetry. Born in 809, he dies in 855 at the age of 46, peacefully, after retiring during his last few years.

Li Yong (李永), Emperor Weizong of Tang (唐威宗): 855-878
Li Yong manages to live in this timeline, and under him, the Niu-Li conflict is finally ended, not least because both Li Deyu and Niu Sengru are already dead by the time he comes to the throne. Li Yong continues to avoid giving the eunuchs any power, and manages to assist the empire somewhat by enacting reforms limiting the power of the Buddhist clergy. Though he doesn't force monks and nuns back into lay life, he goes ahead with the seizure of clerical properties. The prosperous middle and final years of Li Yong's reign are known by the era name Yongsheng (雍盛), from 861 to 878, and are considered one of the high points of the Tang Dynasty. As such, for his diligence and effort, Li Yong becomes a respected and admired Emperor, for whom many legends are told. Born in 827, he dies in 878 at the age of 51.

Li Zhen (李瑱), Emperor Xuanzong II of Tang (唐宣宗): 878-901
The first alternate figure in this list of rulers, Li Zhen, born in 853, is the son of Li Yong. He ascends to the throne at age 25 and secures several victories over the Tanguts, Uyghurs and Tibetans. However, after his initial successes, his attempts to weaken the military governors only partially succeeds. After several wars from 880 to 895, Li Zhen declares a temporary end to his wars in 895. Under the continued influence of Daoist practitioners, he abdicates in 901 to lead a retired life in pursuit of Daoist immortality, and dies in 909 at the age of 56.

Li Yan (李衍), Emperor Yingzong of Tang (唐英宗): 901-913 (Lǐ Yán)
Li Yan is the son of Li Zhen, born in 880. He ascends to the throne but makes several major mistakes. First, disregarding the advice of his great-grandfather Li Ang, Li Yan reintroduces eunuchs into the positions of power. Next, he found himself under the sway of a minor consort, who he makes Empress. This figure, Empress Zhou (周皇后) dominates the throne soon afterwards, and establishes her family members in key places of power. Li Yan abandons the practice of government, leaving affairs to the relatively capable Chancellor Yan Shun (顏順), and follows in his father's footsteps by abdicating in 913. He dies just a year later in 914 under suspicious circumstances at the age of 33.

Li Song (李崧), Emperor Xianzong II of Tang (唐顯宗): 913-937
Li Song is the second son of Li Yan, born in 904. Initially, he remains under the influence of Empress Zhou, who orders the death of Li Song's birth mother, Lady Chen (陳賢妃). As Empress Zhou and Li Yan had no children together, the Empress Zhou devotes her time to manipulating her stepson. This continues for much of Li Song's early reign, and he spends little time on education or governance. The Tang government enters yet another nadir during this period, until 934, when Li Song discovers the story of his true mother. At this point, he orders Empress Zhou banished and demoted, and tries to restore power, but is murdered in a coup by his stepmother's allies in the military, dying at the age of 34. The general in charge of the coup, a relation of Empress Zhou named Wei Kerong (韋克榮), installs Li Yan's ninth son, Li Chong (李崇) as Emperor for a short while in 937. Li Chong is not considered a real emperor, but is occasionally referred to as the Prince of Wu (吳王).

Li Yan (李巖), Emperor Shizong of Tang (唐世宗): 937-950 (Lǐ Yǎn)
Li Yan (Lǐ Yǎn) is the fifth son of Li Yan (Lǐ Yán). He is outside of the capital when Wei Kerong's coup begins, and manages to rally other Tang forces from his base in Luoyang. As he is the oldest remaining son of Li Yan, he is seen as the rightful Emperor. He strikes back against Wei Kerong and the military officers of the capital, who have obtained power after their various campaigns against the regional warlords. Li Yan realizes the danger from the forces at the capital: the regional warlords are not yet removed from power, but the generals at the capital have gained in strength as well. In a move that is considered a short-term victory but long-term failure, Li Yan invites the regional warlords Sun Zuo (孫祚) and Zu Fang (祖芳) to assist him in retaking Chang'an. It succeeds, killing both Li Chong and Wei Kerong, but the result is that Zu Fang quickly becomes the strongest power in the country and the capital is devastated. Li Yan then tries to get the backing of Sun Zuo in fighting Zu Fang, but this is not very successful. From now, the country enters an effective warlord era: Zu Fang has taken most of Henan and Shandong, Sun Zuo wanders the countryside. Sun Zuo dies in a timely manner in 940, while Li Yan manages to defeat Zu Fang, barely. The rest of the reign is spent trying to fix the rapidly-decaying Tang Empire. Born in 910, Li Yan dies in 950 at age 40 as a very disappointed man, leaving the throne to his oldest son. By 950, the Tang Dynasty is functionally over, and the Wei Kerong Rebellion has damaged China as much as the An Lushan Rebellion did.

Li Pi (李丕), Emperor Yuzong of Tang (唐裕宗): 950-959
Li Pi is the son of Li Yan (Lǐ Yǎn). Born in 940, he comes to the throne due to the assistance of various eunuchs and generals who had fled Chang'an for Luoyang. The effective rulers are the various independent military rulers. During Li Pi's reign, the capital is still Chang'an, which is devastated. Though Li Pi, as a child ruler, resides in Chang'an, the government had moved to Luoyang, which was not devastated. Being young, he doesn't control the government in any meaningful way. However, when he comes into his majority, he attempts to assert his power against the chief general of the day, Kong Wuzhen (孔梧鎮). Kong quickly assassinates him. Meanwhile, Kong Wuzhen's conflict with peasant rebel leader Xu Yuan (徐元) leads to a continuous deterioration of the Chinese situation. Li Pi dies in 959 at the age of 19 without leaving any heirs.

Li Zong (李倧), Emperor Mingzong of Tang (唐明宗): 959-968
Li Zong is Li Pi's younger brother, born in 942. He has no more success than his older brother, and spends most of his time as a puppet of a new general, the eunuch Sima Ding (司馬定), who has seized control of the capital troops. Kong Wuzhen has now been expelled from his base at Luoyang, though he continues to rule the south under the Lü Dynasty (呂朝). Xu Yuan dies during this period and his fledgling state of Southern Qin (南秦) is stamped out, but the power of the Tang Dynasty continues to decline. Though Sima Ding controls the area from Chang'an to Luoyang, the rest of the country is largely governed by local magnates and generals. Most of these generals are still nominally loyal to the Tang, as the situation decays and they wait to see which direction the wind blows. Li Zong dies in 968 at the age of 26 leaving three sons.

Li Gui (李珪), Emperor Yuanzong of Tang (唐元宗): 968-980
Li Gui is the son of Li Zong, born in 964. Being another child ruler, the government remains at first in Sima Ding's hands. However, after a number of defeats in 970, Sima Ding is defeated and Kong Wuzhen retakes the de facto capital at Luoyang, sacking it in the process, before capturing the still-damaged city of Chang'an. Sima Ding seizes Li Gui and flees to Sichuan first, on the run from Kong Wuzhen. Kong's death in 971 gives Sima Ding some breathing room, but Sima Ding dies in 972 and the general Wang Zhao (王兆) becomes the next effective ruler of the Tang. In the meantime, Wang Zhao keeps Li Gui essentially imprisoned in Sichuan, under the pretext that Chang'an is too dangerous as an imperial residence. In the meantime, Wang Zhao takes over most of the governance of the country. Tang forces continue to exist mostly on paper, and even the forces at Chang'an and Luoyang have grown greatly diminished. Wang Zhao, though desiring to overthrow the Tang immediately, decides to wait until Kong Wuzhen's son, Kong Xuan (孔玄), is defeated. On the other hand, Wang goes ahead with the poisoning of Li Gui, who dies in 980 at the age of 16.

Li Ke (李珂), Emperor Aizong of Tang (唐哀宗): 980-983
Li Ke, born in 966, is the younger brother of Li Gui. He spends his short reign as a puppet for Wang Zhao. Wang Zhao finds that Kong Xuan is too difficult to defeat, while the Tang legacy is insufficiently helpful. In 983, Wang Zhao deposes Li Ke, who has spent his four years as Emperor in Sichuan as Wang Zhao's prisoner. Wang Zhao declares his own dynasty, which will be known as the Former Lu (前魯朝), from the ruins of Luoyang. Li Ke manages to live for some time, dying in 987. His young son, Li Zhen (李震), manages to survive, to play his own role in Chinese historical affairs. That, however, is another story.

The Tang Dynasty, after 365 years of existence, is finally deposed. However, this was only a legal fiction: the Tang Emperors had lost most of their real power after Wei Kerong revolted in 937, and all of their power after 950.

It seems interesting to me, though I can't say much about the plausibility, given my *ahem* utter lack of knowledge on the Tang. I can commend you for creating a timeline less Europe/North America-centric than the rest though.

When I saw the thread title, I assumed this was a TL about the drink mix.

What's the POD? No An Li rebellion?

DStecks said:

When I saw the thread title, I assumed this was a TL about the drink mix.

Click to expand...

Is Tang even around? But anyways, good point. I'll change the title to "A Tang China Timeline."

mikegold said:

What's the POD? No An Li rebellion?

Click to expand...

The POD is an alternate Ganlu Incident. In English, this is translated "the Sweet Dew Incident," and I found this more poetic sounding.

WhatIsAUserName said:

Is Tang even around?

Click to expand...

Not before 1900 it probably isn't.

Alright, so an update. My updates aren't going to be particularly long, and I'm still testing the waters, but this case will serve as an example of how minor butterflies can have larger effects.

Sweet Dew: Part 2 (Korea)

When news circulated that Li Ang (posthumously Emperor Wenzong) purged the eunuchs of his court, it was greeted with great jubilation in much of East Asia. As one of the few pieces of good news in this time period, it buoyed the heart and mind of one of Li Ang's contemporaries, Kim Kyŏnghwi (金景徽), who would be known posthumously as King Hŭngdŏk (興德王) of Silla. This sense of satisfaction, it is said, was able to extend the life of Kim Kyŏnghwi past 836. Kim Kyŏnghwi died instead in 845. By that time, Kim Kyŏnghwi's cousin Kim Ujing (金祐徵) had already died. Historically, the famed military leader Chang Pogo had helped Kim Ujing become the ruler of Silla. In this world, Kim Ujing was dead by the time King Hŭngdŏk died. By this time, however, Kim Kyŏnghwi had recalled his son Kim Uijong (金義琮) back from Tang China. The Crown Prince had been dispatched to China to learn the art of governance, and he had served with some distinction, being present at the signing of the 8th Sino-Tibetan Treaty between Emperor Wenzong and Tibetan btsan-po Khri gtsug lde brtsan (also called Ralpacan) in 843. In this timeline Kim Uijong was present in Silla when his father died, and was successful in fighting off attempts by Kim Myŏng (金明) and Kim Che-ryung (金悌隆) to take the throne. His reign was unstable, though he is regarded as a legitimate king of Silla.

Kim Uijong was posthumously titled as King Hŏnsŏng (憲聖). After a series of struggles, Kim Myŏng fled and found assistance with the commander of the Ch'ŏnghae Garrison, Chang Pogo. As a condition of assistance, Chang ambitiously demanded a marital alliance with Kim Myŏng before he would deliver his assistance. Kim, fully intending to renege on the promise, only married Chang's daughter as a second wife. In 844, after Kim Uijong demanded that Chang Pogo hand over Kim Myŏng for execution, Chang refused. The resulting conflict pitted the power of Ch'ŏnghae against the power of Kyŏngju. The former one: in 846, Chang's forces entered the Silla capital, removing Kim Uijong from the throne, and installing Kim Myŏng to be the next ruler. The Kyŏngju nobles were infuriated at Chang's daughter being the second wife of Kim Myŏng. Kim Myŏng would be known posthumously as Singang (神康). He and Chang contained the insurrection, but the royal line was damaged in prestige by the marriage of the king to the daughter of a commoner. Kim Myŏng came to depend on Chang's Ch'ŏnghae Garrison. In 849, Kim Myŏng had a son, Kim Kyejong (金繼宗), with Chang Pogo's daughter. In 855, Chang decided to maneuver Kim Myŏng off of the throne, and demanded to the King of Silla that Kim Kyejong become the next King. Kim refused this ridiculous request, and was assassinated that year by Chang Pogo for his troubles. Kim Kyejong became the next King, posthumously Chŏngae (定哀), with Chang as the real power behind the throne. This situation only lasted one year, when Chang died in 856 at the age of 69 due to an illness.

At this point, the resulting struggle resulted in the quick death of Kim Kyejong. Rebellions continued to break out and the aristocracy and royalty continued their fratricidal bloodshed. Peasant revolts, beginning in 855, seized much of the countryside. In 861, the nominal King was a child ruler, posthumously King Hyomun (孝文), who was a distant descendant of a previous ruler. Real power was in the countryside was held by the generals (changgun) or city lords (sŏngju). That year, a young but intelligent warlord named Yu Hŭi-gye (柳熙啟) declared his state of Chŏngso (定昭) from the city of Ungju (熊州). He is more often known by the posthumous name Ko (高王), given to him by his grandson, King Wŏn, (元王). Yu Hŭi-gye (柳熙啟) would first have to deal with the issue of the rump Silla state which would not fall for a few more decades. Yu, despite some accomplishments and conquests on the central part of the Korean Peninsula, was not initially considered a contender. The Tang government, then ruled by Li Yong, had predicted a victory by Sŏ Maenggyun (徐孟鈞) in the north or Sŏl Chongyu (薛宗愈) in the south. When Yu initially dispatched emissaries to Tang China in 863 seeking letters of investiture, he was rebuffed. However, the story of the next Korean dynasty had already begun.

So, here's the next update. There doesn't seem to be a lot of interest so far, but I intend to go back and rewrite the older parts. For example, each of the Tang Emperors I listed will get their own update. My next post will probably describe the Chinese situation at the time. However, the effects are slowly spreading: what happens in Tibet will affect India and the Middle East, and then go to affect Europe and Africa.

Sweet Dew: Part 3 (Tibet)

Unlike the historical Tibetan Empire, which ceased to exist in 840, the Tibetan Empire of this timeline lasted for a longer period of time thanks to butterflies only obliquely related to the point of divergence. Nonetheless, the effects were wide and far-ranging.

Li Ang had suppressed the power of the eunuchs in 835. By coincidence, he empowered Li Deyu (李德裕), who realized during Li Ang's later reign that the Tibetans had violated the 822 Sino-Tibetan treaty agreement during an invasion of Luzhou (魯州), in Sichuan. In 835, Li Ang dispatched the troops formerly under eunuch control to Tibet, where they clashed with Tibetan troops without any measurable success. However, in that conflict, Chinese troops introduced a plague that caused substantial casualties in Tibet, though it did not quite overturn demographics. The number of Tibetan losses, even if only to disease, was enough for both Li Ang and Li Deyu to consider the campaign a victory. Two factors forced the Tibetans to the peace table: the Uighurs were making their incursions into Tibetan territory after the collapse of the Uighur Empire in 840, and almost a decade of plague ravaged Tibetan land. The Tibetans were forced into yet another treaty in 843. The Tibetan tsenpo Khri gtsug lde brtsan (also called Ralpacan) survived this plague, but his prime minister, a highly unpopular Buddhist monk, did not. As a result of this matter, the tsenpo grew exceedingly worried about his own health, taking careful measures to ensure his own health, to which his long life is attributed.

Ralpacan died in 858 at the age of 52, living a fairly long life for a person of his time, especially given his reputation as weak and sick. Though Ralpacan remained as intensely devoted to Buddhism as he was before the plague, he was unable to finance his previous support for monasteries and translation projects, as the funds of state had begun to dry up after the plague.

However, Ralpacan was still opposed for his support of Buddhism by members of the aristocracy, who wanted to put his brother Langdarma on the throne. Fortunately, Langdarma's pompous attitude won him few friends in the Tibetan government. When Langdarma fought the Uighur incursions, leading a Tibetan force, he failed to defeat his opponents as well. Though Langdarma and Ralpacan had a third brother, Tsangma, but he was a monk. Nonetheless, Ralpacan ordered Tsangma to return from exile in Bhutan. Langdarma's son, Od-srung, who was second in line in succession for the throne after his father but ahead of his uncle Tsangma. Ralpacan's reign, over four decades long, was hamstrung for several decades by the Chinese plague, as the disease was called, but Ralpacan managed to do his best to promote Buddhism. As for the Bon faith, its chief proponents in the Tibetan nobility were assuaged by the death of Yon-tan-dpal, the powerful monk who had reached hitherto-unheard-of positions of power in the Tibetan hierarchy. In 858, Ralpacan finally died. However, there was also an interesting coincidence in the same year. Ralpacan, remembering how his Bon-affiliated opponents had forced his brother Tsangma into exile, ordered that his brother Langdarma take monastic vows. Langdarma technically refused, but Tsangma and several abbots linked to the imperial family managed to imprison Langdarma in a monastery under the pretext that Langdarma was undergoing training in the Buddhist precepts. Kept in almost total isolation, Langdarma was not let out of the monastery until after Ralpacan had died. By that time, Od-srung was tsenpo instead.

Langdarma did his utmost to retake the throne, assisted by other anti-Buddhist members of Tibetan society. In a bloody coup, Tsangma and other Tibetan monks managed to restrain Langdarma and kill the pro-Bon ministers from the Ba and Chogro families. Od-srung, being a teenager at the time of the conflict, was horrified by the bloodshed, which was led him to fulfill, with as much diligence as possible, the Buddhist commands against spilling blood. For the rest of his reign, executions were ended in the government, though covert assassination remained present.

In this situation, the Tang asked the Tibetans to fulfill the 853 treaty obligations and accept a Chinese princess, Li Ang's daughter Princess Wenzhao (文昭), as Od-srung's consort. Od-srung was also married to a member of the Pala imperial family which was then ruling Bengal: the Buddhist ties forged by this marriage alliance would eventually come to link Tibet, China, and India. Od-srung ruled Tibet for a fairly long period of time, from 858 to 894. He had three children, one by Princess Wenzhao. Od-srung did not strengthen Tibet to any substantial degree, but the country as a whole remained peaceful, focusing on self-strengthening after the Chinese plague, and there were no additional border conflicts with Tang.

Od-srung was followed by his second son, Selnang, by a Tibetan queen. Selnang, like his grandfather Ralpacan, was rather sickly, but came to the throne as an adult and in a time of peace. He expanded the state support for Buddhism, now that Bon was a politically spent force, and renewed Tibetan militarism. An initial war with Tang in 893 ended in Tibetan failure. However, after Emperor Li Zhen died in 901, his son Li Yán came to the throne and Selnang ordered another war. Due to Li Yán's inattention, Tibet managed to achieve several more victories. However, this actually aggravated clan rivalries, who were hoping to divide the spoils in a self-interested way. Decades of peace and plague had hurt the clans financially, and they were becoming more ambitious. It was not a fortunate occurrence that Selnang was not a very strong leader, and Od-srung had not been very forceful either.

In 903, Selnang grew paranoid and accused his brother Rulekye, rather xenophobically, of plotting against the tsenpo. Rulekye's mother was the Princess Wenzhao, who had passed away in 905. Rulekye, who had been hoping to rebel anyways, seized the opportunity and attempted to take the throne. In his uprising, he asked for Chinese support. His mother, the Princess Wenzhao had petitioned her father Li Ang to grant the Tibetan royal family the Tang imperial surname. Wenzhao's grandnephew Li Yán belatedly agreed in 903 to give Rulekye the imperial surname. Rulekye became known as to Chinese audiences as Li Luole (李羅樂). However, Rulekye's attempt to ask for Chinese troops outraged many Tibetans. He fled to the Amdo region, where he carved out a small niche, while the central and western parts of Tibet became part of Selnang's domain. The Tibetan Empire had ended: however, the existence of a Tibetan state did not. Though Tibet was afflicted by civil war, it did not descend into a full chaos. This would have effects in a later time period.

I don't know much about this area of history, but I'm following this tl with interest. Besides being original, it seems to me to have the right scale of detail.

Another update. I'm still trying to decide whether I overlooked something regarding the Niu-Li Factionalism of late Tang. It might be that, while Li Deyu was fairly capable, Li Xun might be in a better position to effect change given how the Sweet Dew Incident was his plan. Anybody with interest or knowledge of the area should feel free to comment.

I feel that this update isn't particularly different from China's historical Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms stage, but the differences will start to set in soon. I will later go back and add more to the section about Tang.

Sweet Dew: Part 4 (Northern China, 983-1036)

The definitive end of the Tang Dynasty in 983 was barely noticed by the Chinese populace. It was certainly not felt: there was perhaps no change in circumstances on the ground for the Old Hundred Families. The Four Dynasties followed this time period, and they were all called the Northern Dynasties, or occasionally the Former Dynasties, because there would later by a Later Lu state and a Later Xia state, as well as an Eastern Chen and a Western Chen. The first was the Northern Lu Dynasty (北魯朝) of Wang Zhao (王兆), also called the Former Lu Dynasty. The second was the Northern Zheng Dynasty (北鄭朝) of Xiao Jinxiang (蕭縉祥). The third was the Northern Xia Dynasty (北夏朝) of Du Jishi (杜吉式). The fourth was the Northern Qin Dynasty (北秦朝) of Li Rangxing (李讓行). The fifth dynasty to be formed was the Northern Chen Dynasty (北陳朝) of Jia Zegui (賈則貴). It was the Northern Chen Dynasty that managed to reunite China, so it is often just called the Chen Dynasty.

China by 983 was divided among several states and warlord groups, and the distinction between the two was quite difficult to make. In the north, along the areas that today are called Henan, Shaanxi, Shanxi, the newly declared Northern Lu Dynasty ruled. Its ruler was Wang Zhao, who would posthumously be titled Emperor Gao (高帝). Wang Zhao ruled from 983 to 986, when he died and was succeeded by his son, Wang Mingyuan (王明遠), who ruled for just a short period of time until 989, when he succumbed to assassination by one of Wang Zhao's generals. He was given the posthumous name Emperor Xian (獻帝) by his brother, Wang Mingjin (王明近). Wang Mingjin campaigned against the Shandong regime of Zhu Chengbi (朱承弼), with some success. However, he died of illness in 995, leaving the throne to a very young son. In 996, Zhu Chengbi's forces succeeded in taking Luoyang (洛陽), where the Northern Lu was based. The ruler of Hebei at the time, Xiao Jinxiang, enlisted Khitan support against Zhu Chengbi. In 997, Xiao's forces allied with Khitan troops succeeded in defeating Zhu Chengbi. In 998, they occupied occupied Chang'an (長安), the temporary Northern Lu capital, and dethroned Wang Mingjin's son, who was then called Emperor Mo (末帝).

In 997, Xiao Jinxiang declared his own Northern Zheng Dynasty, and immediately clashed with his Khitan allies. In 998, he betrayed the Khitans who had helped him. In a particularly famous case, he imprisoned the Khitan envoys, led by the turncoat Cui Yanping (崔延平) in the Famen Monastery (法門寺) in Chang'an. He then had the entire complex set on fire. Following that, Xiao went about confiscating the properties of the Buddhist and Daoist temples in Chang'an and Luoyang. Christian and Manichean temples were also caught up in the sweep: the Zoroastrian temples survived because he identified his dynasty's element as fire, and the Zoroastrian temples were renowned for fire worship. The Khitan tribes immediately went to war with the Northern Zheng. In 1001, after being interrupted by an internal dispute, the Khitans invaded China again, striking in the Hebei region. A siege of Yanjing (燕京) was temporarily repulsed. In 1002, a short incursion into Jiangsu against the Southern Chen (南陳朝) went awry for Xiao, and he was murdered by his own troops in a mutiny. Xiao's brother Xiao Jinfu (蕭縉福) was installed as Emperor at the capital in Zhengzhou (鄭州), and proceeded to quash the mutiny in Jiangsu. However, while Xiao Jinfu attempted to alleviate the hardships caused by his brother's cruel and tyrannical reign, he lacked the ability to keep different factions together. He stopped the dynasty's wars, for a short period of time, after defeating another Khitan invasion of Yanjing in 1004, and dispatched only assistance to the southern state of Fan Wu (范吳) in its wars against the Southern Chen Dynasty. Xiao Jinfu's generals took this as a sign of weakness: in 1007, the generals Du Jishi and Liu Qin (劉欽) led a coup that unseated Xiao Jinfu. In the resulting chaos, Du and Liu fought amongst themselves in order to become Emperor. Du won late in 1007 and declared his own dynasty.

Du's Northern Xia Dynasty was slightly more stable than the Northern Zheng. However, Du was assisted by a few factors. First, the Southern Chen Dynasty had collapsed in 1006. Second, the Fan Wu Dynasty (named after its ruling family, the Fans) was itself at war with the Wang Yue (王越), in an new twist of the old Wu-Yue Contention. Du Jishi settled on resolving the conflict with the Khitans, who continued to raid the Hebei area. From 1007 to 1017, Du ruled and there were no major conflicts. However, in 1017, Du died from an illness and left the throne to a young son, Du Bao (杜寶). The new Emperor lacked any sort of major power base, and Zhou Lie (周烈) came to dominate the throne. Having served as Chief Minister to Du Jishi, and effective ruler when the Emperor was sick, Zhou was in the best position to establish his own dynasty. However, this strategy was too obvious. In 1018, Zhou Lie replaced Du Bao with Du Liang (杜良), who was Du Bao's cousin and Du Jishi's nephew. This lasted only six months. Later in 1018, Li Rangxing, a general opposed to Zhou's bureaucratic and civilian power base, stormed Zhengzhou, the capital. He exiled Du Liang and Du Bao (both of whom died very quickly), and tried to rule through Du Liang's brother Du Xiong (杜雄) from 1018 to 1020, before Li deposed the Northern Xia Dynasty.

Li Rangxing declared the Northern Qin Dynasty in 1020. He was a general, but realized the threat posed by the military. In a move that was later to be considered a great folly, Li Rangxing ordered Zhang Xiao (張孝), the most decorated military officer from the days of the Northern Xia, to attack the Khitans in the 1024 campaign season. This move failed as the Khitans had now recovered from their leadership struggles. Li Rangxing sent Zhang Xiao to attack with Zhang's personal troops, before terminating Zhang's supply lines. Zhang, however, had the fortune of having Xiao Jinxiang's two sons among his troops. Zhang handed Xiao Jinxiang's sons to the Khitans. The older refused to serve the Khitans, and was executed. The younger son agreed to serve the Khitans, and his descendants would go on to serve in high office in the Khitan dynasty, though that story comes much later. Zhang Xiao and his troops raced back from Hebei to attack Li Rangxing for such a move of treachery. Zhang did not manage to get past the Northern Qin troops, who were located on the Henan borders. Zhang did manage to escape to Shandong, where he enlisted the aid of the Fan Wu state, and managed to establish his own base. This stalemate lasted until 1030, when Zhang Xiao died without leaving any suitable heirs. His warlord state after his death. Meanwhile, the Khitans had occupied the territorial vacuum in Hebei. Li Rangxing lived till 1031. He left the throne to his son Li Jing (李敬). In 1033, Li Jing was murdered by a concubine while he was drunk. His son, the last Northern Qin ruler Li Xinying (李信英), took the throne and ruled just three years, dependent on his minister Jia Zegui. In 1036, Li Xinying was dethroned by Jia Zegui. Though nobody realized it at the time, this was actually the start of the dynasty that would reunite China.

I would be a bit careful. I would avoid making this as complex and character rich as the Age of Fragmentation or the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms. Its a bit hard for people to adjust to the vast influx of names and keep track of things when its a complex web of intrigue, warfare, politics, coups and counter coups, barbarian invasions, and the names.

That said, I enjoyed some of the parallels. I also found the idea that you spared one particular foreign religion because it worshiped the element of his dynasty an interesting take on things and could surprisingly fit well even as Taoism and Buddhism are being persecuted.

I applaud the use of non-generic Chinese dynasty names that are still traceable to the warring states. It seems like almost everyone picks a popular one or simply makes one up on the spot.

The one thing that I have to say is that there is a surprising lack of Li royals and Later Tang states. The Li royal house was everywhere with regional power centers in virtually every corner. In addition to this many individuals were given the Li surname by the Emperor as a sign of honoring them and ranking them amongst the highest nobility, and a few of them would also attempt to restore the Tang.

CandyDragon said:

It seems interesting to me, though I can't say much about the plausibility, given my *ahem* utter lack of knowledge on the Tang. I can commend you for creating a timeline less Europe/North America-centric than the rest though.

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No problem. If this timeline is interesting, that's good enough for me.

DStecks said:

Not before 1900 it probably isn't.

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True, it doesn't seem like a very traditional type of drink.

chr92 said:

I don't know much about this area of history, but I'm following this tl with interest. Besides being original, it seems to me to have the right scale of detail.

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Thanks.

scholar said:

I would be a bit careful. I would avoid making this as complex and character rich as the Age of Fragmentation or the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms. Its a bit hard for people to adjust to the vast influx of names and keep track of things when its a complex web of intrigue, warfare, politics, coups and counter coups, barbarian invasions, and the names.

That said, I enjoyed some of the parallels. I also found the idea that you spared one particular foreign religion because it worshiped the element of his dynasty an interesting take on things and could surprisingly fit well even as Taoism and Buddhism are being persecuted.

I applaud the use of non-generic Chinese dynasty names that are still traceable to the warring states. It seems like almost everyone picks a popular one or simply makes one up on the spot.

The one thing that I have to say is that there is a surprising lack of Li royals and Later Tang states. The Li royal house was everywhere with regional power centers in virtually every corner. In addition to this many individuals were given the Li surname by the Emperor as a sign of honoring them and ranking them amongst the highest nobility, and a few of them would also attempt to restore the Tang.

Click to expand...

This is true, and I will take it into consideration. The southern states in China at this time will probably have at least two Tang successor states with members of the Li royal house. If this timeline gets too complicated too quickly, I will spend the next few updates going back to the point of divergence and explaining things more quickly. For example, I don't think I have enough context in my first post.

Anyways, this isn't so much an update as it is an attempt to clarify and illuminate the major players so far:

Sweet Dew: Part 4.5 (A list of rulers of Four Dynasties China)

Northern Lu Dynasty (北魯朝)
Wang Zhao (王兆): Emperor Gao (高帝), son of Wang Yu (王遇). Born 931, ruled from 983 until he died in 986.

Wang Mingyuan (王明遠): Emperor Xian (獻帝), son of Wang Zhao. Born 952, ruled from 986 until he died in 989.

Wang Mingjin (王明近): Emperor Wen (文帝), brother of Wang Mingyuan Born 956, ruled from 989 until he died in 995.

Wang Huan (王環): Emperor Mo (末帝), son of Wang Mingjin. Born 986, ruled from 995 until he was dethroned in 998. Died in 999 on Xiao Jinxiang's orders.

Northern Zheng Dynasty (北鄭朝)
Xiao Jinxiang (蕭縉祥): Emperor Xianzhu (先主), son of Xiao Zhicheng (蕭知誠). Born 962, ruled from 997 until he died in 1002.

Xiao Jinfu (蕭縉福): Emperor Houzhu (後主), brother of Xiao Jinxiang. Born 964, ruled from 997 until he died in 1007.

Northern Xia Dynasty (北夏朝)
Du Jishi (杜吉式): Emperor Wu (武帝), son of Du Qiu (杜求). Born 970, ruled from 1007 until he died in 1017.

Du Bao (杜寶), Emperor Jing (景帝) son of Du Jishi. Born 997, ruled from 1017 until he was deposed in 1018. Died in 1020.

Du Liang (杜良), Emperor Xuan (宣帝) nephew of Du Jishi, son of Du Qiu's son Du Zhang (杜章). Born 990, ruled in 1018 until he was deposed that year. Died in 1019.

Du Xiong (杜雄), Emperor An (安帝) brother of Du Liang. Born 992, ruled from 1018 until 1020. Died in 1035.

Northern Qin Dynasty (北秦朝)
Li Rangxing (李讓行): Emperor Taizu (太祖), son of Li Sizhen (李思貞). Born 974, ruled from 1020 until he died in 1031.

Li Jing (李敬), Emperor Taizong (太宗), son of Li Rangxing. Born 1000, ruled from 1031 until he died in 1033.

Li Xinying (李信英), Emperor Aizong (哀宗), son of Li Jing. Born 1020, ruled from 1033 until he was deposed in 1036. Died in 1079.

It should be noted that the imperial family of Northern Lu died out after the death of Wang Huan in 999 with any heirs, while the imperial family of Northern Qin died out after 1036 since neither Li Xinying nor his brother Li Xinjie (李信潔) had any successors. However, the imperial families of Northern Zheng and Northern Xia will appear again in this timeline.

Another update, and one that hopefully has enough Tang imperial family members to satisfy all. Things may be a little confusing: I will post a list of rulers to make things more convenient later.

Sweet Dew: Part 5 (Southern China)

During the Late Tang, Southern China was already divided. The first leader to declare his own regime was Xu Yuan, who declared the Southern Qin Dynasty. However, that was an ephemeral creation, lasting just ten years from 957 until its end in 967. It was never fully recognized as an independent state. The Jiangnan region was first held by Kong Wuzhen (孔梧鎮), who declared the Lü Dynasty (呂朝) in 964. Kong Xuan (孔玄) took over the Lü Dynasty in 971 when his father died, and ruled the Jiangnan region at the mouth of the Yangtze River for fourteen tears until 985, when he dies and is succeeded by his son Kong Qing (孔慶), who ruled until 990. At that point, the Lü fell to an internal coup and was replaced by the Eastern Chen Dynasty, founded by Lu Wen (盧溫), a general of Kong Xuan who had served Kong Wuzhen. Lu Wen declared the Eastern Chen, but that dynasty was remarkably vulnerable to attacks, first by Northern Zheng, and then the breakaway state of Fan Wu. Fan Cunzhi (范存質) had been initially a small-time salt smuggler in the Jiankang region, but he had allied with Kong Wuzhen initially in opposition to Lu Wen. Fan despised Liu, who came from a family which had produced several jinshi and officials for the Tang Dynasty, in contrast to Fan's humble origins. When Lu declared his own dynasty, Fan immediately rose up in revolt and declared his own Wu Dynasty (范吳) in 991. To distinguish this Wu from the Three Kingdoms state of Sun Wu, the appellation Fan was added, from Fan Cunzhi's surname. The conflict between Wu and Chen was fierce and bitter, relative to the modest populations of both areas.

The Southern China conflict saw the participation of many famous men on both sides. On the Chen side, the most famous member was Li Shou (李壽), who claimed to be part of the imperial Li family of Tang, though his claim, through a cousin of Tang founder Li Yuan (李淵) was considered sufficiently distant as to be dubious. However, Li Shou's claim to fame was as a military leader: he had thwarted Xiao Jinxiang's invasion of the Eastern Chen, and it was his spies that spread the rumor that killed the Northern Zheng ruler in 1002. After defeats around the Suzhou area, Li Shou disguised several of his soldiers as farmers and peasants. Chen soldiers killed a Zheng messenger, and Li Shou's “peasants” handed over a forged document stating that soldiers who failed in the Suzhou campaign were to be executed. By itself, this was not a very convincing piece of trickery. In combination with Xiao Jinxiang's reputation, it was deadly. The general in charge of those troops, Zong Dejing (宗德靜) was convinced to betray the Zheng anyways, and he defected with some of his guards to the Chen side. When the forces under Xiao's command approached the leaderless troops, the latter mutinied in fear of massacre. The resulting confusion saw Xiao killed. It a death that was not mourned by many people. In the conflict with the Wu, Li Shou and his younger brother Li Shi (李適) served as generals for the Eastern Chen. The Eastern Chen held the Jiangsu region, and Li Shou served first as defender of Suzhou and later as defender of Jiankang, the Eastern Chen capital. Li Shi led the vanguard against Wu. In the 1000 campaign, he managed to capture Fan Cunzhi's sons Fan Jin (范進) and Fan Zao (范造), who were imprisoned and died in Chen captivity later. However, his success provoked jealousy amongst the other generals of Eastern Chen. The general Yu Cheng (余承) assassinated Li Shou in 1002, and was in turn killed by Li Shi in 1003.

On the Fan Wu side, the famous Tang imperial scion was instead Li Chengzhe (李成哲), who also claimed descent from Emperor Ruizong of Tang. Li Chengzhe's claims were considered much more verifiable and likely. However, Li Chengzhe became famous not for his success, but for his meddling in the affairs of the Fan Wu Dynasty. The initial founder, Fan Cunzhi, lost both of his sons when they were captured by Li Shi. Fan Cunzhi, who had no brothers or nephews, adopted a Fan Yi (范毅), originally surnamed Yao (姚), and installed him as crown prince. When Fan Cunzhi died in 1002, Li Chengzhe cemented his alliance to the ruling family. Li Chengzhe's daughter married Fan Yi, and Li and his supporters came to monopolize much of the kingdom's power. Li Chengzhe, the general Wen Longzhi (文隆之), and the eunuch Guo Bang (郭邦) formed a ruling troika between them. In 1003, Wen Longzhi led an invasion of Chen territory, and was successful in taking much territory, as the Chen had been deprived of two of their best three generals. Li Shi was successful in repulsing the Wu from the capital until 1006, when he and the Chen ruler Lu Miao (盧邈) were both assassinated by Yu Cheng's ally Su Jiong (蘇迥). Jealousy began to set hold in the Fan Wu circles, and Li Chengzhe had Wen Longzhi recalled to Wu.

A general in the Chen side, Wang Yu (王豫) then took over from Lu Miao and declared the Wang Yue (王越) dynasty. Wang Yu claimed descent from a famous lineage, the Wang family of Taiyuan, which had settled in Yangzhou. With few troops at hand, Wang had little more than his famous ancestry in order to cement his rule over Zhejiang. However, as a crafty ruler and capable general, Wang managed to expand the Wang Yue dynasty into Fujian, which had then been ruled by another Yue dynasty, the Huang Yue (黃越). However, Wang Yu's defeats in his Guangdong expedition in 1012 set back the Wang Yue's expansion.

As for Fan Yi, the ruler was furious at how the Wu had snatched a defeat from the jaws of victory, and tried to replace Li Chengzhe with Wen Longzhi. Guo Bang managed to inform Li Chengzhe of his impending replacement, and Li fled to the capital at Jiankang, where his troops killed Wen Longzhi and imprisoned Fan Yi. For several years, Li Chengzhe was in control. He was too cautious to declare his own dynasty, as the Northern Xia state remained threatening. Li dispatched overtures of peace to Du Jishi, which were accepted. From 1006 to 1018, Li remained in control of the Fan Wu state. In 1008, Guo Bang died, so there was nobody to challenge Li's control. In 1016, Li felt secure enough to go to war with the Wang Yue, as both sides had a fair amount of time to recover. The resulting war went on and off for several years.

In 1020, Wang Yu died and his son Wang Feng (王峰) became the next Emperor of Wang Yue. Wang Feng was not particularly talented, but neither was Li Chengzhe's son and successor Li Su (李肅). Li Su inherited his father's post as State Regent for Fan Yi, who was supposedly ill. Li Su was much less capable than his father. From 1018 to 1024, Wang Feng and Li Su spent their time on lavish building projects and personal debauchery. In 1024, Fan Yi staged a coup and seized back control of the Fan Wu state, and Li Su fled abroad. Fan Yi remained in control until 1030, when he died. Fan Yi was succeeded by an adopted son, Fan Yun (范允), originally surnamed Wei (魏). Fan Yun would be in charge of the Fan Wu state until the Northern Chen Dynasty succeeded in unifying China. Besides the Fan Wu, Wang Yue, and Eastern Chen, there were several other post-Tang states in Southern China.

Historically, there were several states that declared themselves the successors of the Tang. One of these was the Eastern Tang, established several hundred years later in the 13th century after the collapse of the Chen Dynasty. That state claimed descent from Li Zhen (李震), the son of Li Ke. However, the Four Dynasties Tang successor was the Western Tang, founded in Sichuan. In 983, the Tang Dynasty finally ended, and Sichuan came under the Northern Lu Dynasty. In the upheaval at the end of the Northern Lu Dynasty, when Xiao Jinxiang took over and established the Northern Zheng Dynasty, a local landowner named Li Shuzhong (李叔中) declared a restoration of the Tang Dynasty in 999. Li Shuzhong traced his descent to the Tang founder Li Yuan. As his family had been prominent in the Sichuan area for quite some time, this claim was readily accepted. Li Shuzhong arranged an army and fought to secure the independence of the area from the Northern Zheng. This attempt was only successful because the Northern Zheng were fighting the Khitans and the Eastern Chen at the same time. Xiao Jinxiang had intended to conquer Sichuan after he finished with the Eastern Chen invasion. As he was murdered before he could finish that goal, his plans to conquer Sichuan were terminated. Li Shuzhong was thus able to secure his dynasty for a short while, establishing himself as Emperor. The area in Sichuan was long considered a Tang stronghold, as it had been the residence of Tang Emperors Yuanzong and Aizong, 970 to 983. In addition, the Western Tang had to deal with the problems of the Tibetan chaos, which occasionally spilled into the borders of the country. Li Shuzhong's able leadership was credited with helping keep the area safe for several decades. From 999 until 1030, Li Shuzhong was Emperor. However, after his death, his son Li Jian (李簡) became Emperor after him. Li Jian had a stable but unimaginative reign. After 1033, he died of an illness and his brother Li Hui (李暉) succeeded him. Li Hui, who ruled until 1040, was responsible for the disastrous conflict with the Chen Dynasty.

During the Four Dynasties, there were several other minor states. The first was the Huang Yue (黃越), after its founder, Huang Yi (黃儀), a former peasant and minor warlord who declared his state in 980 during the last days of the Tang Dynasty. Huang Yi, also known as Huang Yí, managed to have some success against the Eastern Chen, and managed to keep his domain intact for a short while. Though his state was widely considered authoritarian, Huang Yi managed to repel all outsiders and rule over Fujian as unquestioned hegemon. In 994, he expanded into Jiangxi and defeated the local forces of Eastern Chen there. However, he was forced back to the borders of Fujian after Li Shi took over from the ineffectual Chen generals and rallied local forces. The Huang Yue were forced back to the border between Jiangxi and Fujian by 996. Huang Yi was assassinated in 1005 by a eunuch, Zhou Kang (周康). Zhou placed Huang Yi's son Huang Ru (黃儒) on the throne. In 1009, Wang Yu invaded Fujian and conquered the northern half of the province. After occupying Fuzhou, Wang Yu was repulsed from his move on Quanzhou, where Zhou Kang had fled. The Emperor of Huang Yue, Huang Ru, surrendered to Wang Yu and abdicated the throne, claiming the Wang Yue as the rightful heirs of Yue. Zhou Kang, remaining in Quanzhou, managed to turn the city into one massive fortress. In 1010, Wang Yue moved into the south of Fujian province and destroyed much of Quanzhou when he besieged the city. The Wang Yue forces then ended Quanzhou's status as a major maritime port. The ports of Zhejiang, then, would have prominence over those of Fujian in the next two centuries.

The next state of prominence was Zhong'an. In Hunan, a motley collection of warlords ruled in quick succession. The first warlord to rule, from Changsha, was Huang Yi (黃禕), also called Huang Yī to distinguish him from the founder of the Huang Yue. Huang declared the Zhong'an Dynasty (中安) in 980. He was killed by Li Yang (李洋), a minor general who claimed descent from the Tang imperial house. Li Yang established a successor state to the Tang, the short-lived Central Tang (中唐) of 985 to 995. Li Yang died in a campaign against a minor state in Guangdong, the Yue Han (越漢), in 989. His son and successor Li You'an (李有安) took over the Central Tang until 995, when he died of illness. The Central Tang came under the leadership of Gao Yin (高隱), who killed Li You'an's son and successor, before renaming the state Zhong'an. Gao Yin reached a rapprochement with the Yue Han, where he agreed to make the Zhong'an a vassal state of the Yue Han so that the Yue Han could focus on fighting rebels inside its lands. This arrangement was interrupted by the assassination of Gao Yin in 997 by the general Yuan Desheng (袁德生), who declared the Zhong'an state's independence again and fought with the Yue Han until 994, when the Yue Han itself dissolved into a mess of infighting powers. Yuan Desheng, a military genius, then conquered Guangxi and then Guangdong, where the Yue Han was based, and extended the Zhong'an state. Unlike Huang Yī and Gao Yin, Yuan declared himself Emperor in the style of Li Yang. In 999, Yuan died and his son Yuan Jiong (袁烔) became the next Emperor of the Zhong'an state. Yuan Jiong ruled twelve years until 1011 when he went to war with the Wang Yue, who had encroached on his boundaries. In 1012, Yuan Jiong defeated Wang Yu. In 1013, Hunan was ravaged by a rebellion by Qiu Yongbin (邱勇斌), who had sought to break Hunan away from Zhong'an, which was seen as too concerned with coastal affairs. Yuan Jiong suppressed this in 1015, but died in the process. His son, Yuan Zhonghe (袁忠和), became the next Emperor of Zhong'an and ruled until 1022 by making peace with the Wang Yue and instead going to war with the Northern Qin.

In 1024, the Wang Yue ruler Wang Feng died and the Wang Yue came under the rule of Wang Yixin (王以新), who broke the peace with the Yuan ruler, Yuan Mingqi (袁明奇), who was Yuan Zhonghe's brother. This war between Zhong'an and Wang Yue weakened both countries. The ruler of the Northern Qin managed to take parts of Hunan after this war, taking advantage of the chaos left behind by Qiu Yongbin's rebellion. In 1028, the Yue-Zhong'an war was declared over when Yuan Mingqi decided to focus on fighting the Northern Qin instead. The war was not successful, and the Northern Qin remained in control of Hunan. Incidentally, it was in Changsha where a minor official named Jia Zegui was first posted. The formation of the Northern Chen thus depended on events in Southern China.

Nice, I'd be curious to see the current political scheme. Its so chaotic that a perfect map for one year would be useless a few years later, but just for a frame of reference.

I would like to see which dynasty comes out on top!

scholar said:

Nice, I'd be curious to see the current political scheme. Its so chaotic that a perfect map for one year would be useless a few years later, but just for a frame of reference.

I would like to see which dynasty comes out on top!

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Well, I've already mentioned which dynasty comes out on top, but the path to that conclusion has not been decided yet.

Another semi-update.

For a random year, a snap shot of 1000 would have the following states: Huang Yue (Fujian), Zhong'an (Hunan), Fan Wu (Zhejiang), Eastern Chen (Jiangsu), and Western Tang (Sichuan) in Southern China, alongside the Northern Zheng in northern China, along with some Khitan incursions in northern China.

Sweet Dew: Part 5.5 (List of Southern China's rulers)

Lü Dynasty (呂):
Kong Wuzhen (孔梧鎮), Emperor Taizu (太祖): 910-971, r. 964-971
Kong Xuan (孔玄), Emperor Taizong (太宗): 940-985, r. 971-985
Kong Qing (孔慶), Emperor Mo (末帝): 960-990, r. 985-990

Yue Han (越漢):
Liu Fa (劉發), Emperor Shi (世帝): 928-983 , r. 970-983
Liu Tao (劉濤), Emperor Qianfei (前廢帝): 952-983, r. 983
Liu Jin (劉進), Emperor Xian (憲帝), 950-990, r. 983-990
Liu Xian (劉賢), Emperor Houfei (後廢帝): 945-990, r. 990
Liu Tong (劉統), Emperor Mo (末帝), 978-994, r. 990-994

Wang Yue (王越):
Wang Yu (王豫), Emperor Shizu (世祖): 960-1020 r. 1006-1020
Wang Feng (王峰), Emperor Gaozong (高宗): 983-1024, r. 1020-1024
Wang Yixin (王以新), Emperor Jingzong (景宗): 1004-1031, r. 1024-1031
Wang Yining (王以寧), Emperor Mo (末帝): 1009-1045, r. 1031-1044

Huang Yue (黃越):
Huang Yi (黃儀), Emperor Gaozu (高祖): 950-1005, r. 980-1005
Huang Ru (黃儒), Emperor Xun (遜帝): 983-1020, r. 1005-1009

Zhong'an (中安):
Huang Yi (黃禕), Emperor Xianzu (顯祖): 939-985, r. 980-985
Gao Yin (高隱), Emperor Chengzu (成祖): 949-997, r. 995-997
Yuan Desheng (袁德生), Emperor Taizu (太祖): 940-999, r. 997-999
Yuan Jiong (袁烔), Emperor Shizong (世宗): 963-1015, r. 999-1015
Yuan Zhonghe (袁忠和), Emperor Gongzong (恭宗): 990-1022, r. 1015-1022
Yuan Mingqi (袁明奇), Emperor Shun (順帝): 999-1038, r. 1022-1038

Fan Wu (范吳):
Fan Cunzhi (范存質), Emperor Taizu (太祖): 940-1002, r. 992-1002
Fan Yi (范毅), Emperor Chengzong (成宗): 973-1031, r. 1002-1031
Fan Yun (范允), Emperor Renzong (仁宗): 999-1043, r. 1031-1043
Fan Zai (范載), Emperor Xun (遜帝): 1039-1102, r. 1043

Eastern Chen (東陳):
Lu Wen (盧溫), Emperor Taizu (太祖): 953-995 r. 990-995
Lu Yong (盧雍), Emperor Kangzong (康宗): 977-1000, r. 995-1000
Lu Miao (盧邈), Emperor Jing (敬帝): 980-1006 r. 1000-1006

Central Tang (中唐):
Li Yang (李洋), Emperor Ningzong (寧宗): 940-989, r. 985-989
Li You'an (李有安), Emperor Zhezong (哲宗): 963-995, r. 989-995
Li Xian (李咸), Emperor Ai (哀帝): 989-995, r. 995.

Western Tang (西唐):
Li Shuzhong (李叔中), Emperor Wuzong (武宗): 957-1030, r. 999-1030
Li Jian (李簡), Emperor Shengzong (聖宗): 990-1033, r. 1030-1033
Li Hui (李暉), Emperor Yangzong (煬宗): 992-1040, r. 1033-1040

I'm a bit curious about the use of compound Dynastic names. Are there some OTL examples of that or a cultural reason for them?

scholar said:

I'm a bit curious about the use of compound Dynastic names. Are there some OTL examples of that or a cultural reason for them?

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Oh, I almost forgot to say: I have no real clues about how I'm going to structure my "final" work. Right now, I'm going from the perspective of a history book looking at world events, though I may add a few posts in the style of a story.

For now, the compound dynasty names are what, in the alternate timeline, are the names for the dynasties in the present day. For example, during the Three Kingdoms, Shu Han was just called Han. In this world, Yue Han is just called Han: the word Yue is added to distinguish it from Shu Han, since the Yue Han state is located in what was once Yue, the same way Shu Han is located in what was once Shu. Fan Wu is just called Wu by the people who live there: alternate historians are the one calling it Fan Wu to distinguish it from Sun Wu, and so forth.

I guess I could go back and make the edits to indicate that the dynasties aren't called Northern X or Eastern Y by the people actually living there, but I think that's a minor detail that I'll fix the next time around.

Interesting. The only late positively constructd Tang PODs that I had been thinking of was to prevent the assassination of Emperor Xianzong in 820 (which could indeed turn out worse after some research) or the seemingly immortality pill poisoning of OTL Emperor Xuanzong II in 859. A Ganlu POD has never been taken seriously by me My view on the Niu-Li conflict in Tang, the Reform-Conservative (aka New-Old) partisan conflict in Song, or the standoff between Donglin and non-Donglin in Ming has always been quite different from what we read on history books. Also, seemingly the Xuanzong II in TTL is more like a replica of OTL Xianzong Subscribed.

Tony said:

Interesting. The only late positively constructd Tang PODs that I had been thinking of was to prevent the assassination of Emperor Xianzong in 820 (which could indeed turn out worse after some research) or the seemingly immortality pill poisoning of OTL Emperor Xuanzong II in 859. A Ganlu POD has never been taken seriously by me My view on the Niu-Li conflict in Tang, the Reform-Conservative (aka New-Old) partisan conflict in Song, or the standoff between Donglin and non-Donglin in Ming has always been quite different from what we read on history books. Also, seemingly the Xuanzong II in TTL is more like a replica of OTL Xianzong Subscribed.

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Well, for the Niu-Li conflict, I haven't done extensive research to find out whether the Niu faction was really drawn from the meritocracy and the Li faction was really drawn from the aristocracy, but I don't think origins is the reason for the dispute. A cursory reading seems to show that both sides were more interested in their own power, though I can't say for certain whether each side drew more from one section of society than the other.

Another update will come later today, describing what actually occurred in this alternate Ganlu Incident.

I love the TL. Brilliant!