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Old February 20th, 2013, 02:43 PM
naraht naraht is offline
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Effects of USS Arizona saved?

The only difference ITTL is that the last of the bombs that hit the Arizona was a dud. As best as I can tell, without that last bomb, the Arizona is actually in better shape than either the Utah or the Oklahoma. Given this situation, I presume that the situation for the Arizona is more like the Nevada, California or West Virginia.

I'm wondering whether there are any long term effects of this. The BBs seemed to spend more time in Drydock for retrofits during the war than for repair, so I'm not sure the amount of time repairing her for that little damage (relatively speaking) makes much difference. Her sister BB,the Pennsylvania, after significant service in WWII ended up after the war as an Operations Crossroads nuke target, is the Arizona also likely to?
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Old February 20th, 2013, 03:06 PM
HMS Warspite HMS Warspite is offline
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USS West Virginia was hit by seven to nine torpedoes and actually the worst cassualty, appart from the lost trio. Her condition was actually the same as a CTL, though as she had been sunk right-up in shallow water, she could be raised, where the capsized Oklahoma and Utah could not be so easily. USS Arizona was mainly hit by bombs and blastdamage from nearmisses, so in structurally a better condition, had the main forward magazine not detonnated. In that case, her damage would ba considered heavy, but not beyond repair, slightly worse than USS Tennessee and Maryland, but less than USS Nevada and California, as these two also had suffered from one or two torpedoes. Torpedoes did most of the damage, appart from USS Arizona in the OTL. the IJN 800kg AP Bombs often did not detonate and the ones fo 250kg did not either.

The Japanese mainly used two types of bombs at Pearl Harbor:
1: the common no. 25 Model 2 of 557 lbs (250kg): a GP bomb used both against land and ships.
2: the Type 99, no. 80 Mk.5 of 1,641lbs (around 800 kg), which was derived from the 16.1 inch AP shells of the Nagato Class BB. It was a purpose AP weapon, capable, of defeating 6 inches of armored steel at 6000 ft.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 04:08 PM
naraht naraht is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMS Warspite View Post
USS West Virginia was hit by seven to nine torpedoes and actually the worst cassualty, appart from the lost trio. Her condition was actually the same as a CTL, though as she had been sunk right-up in shallow water, she could be raised, where the capsized Oklahoma and Utah could not be so easily.
Not sure what you are saying at about the USS West Virginia, by saying she was a CTL, that it would have been cheaper to build a new USS WV than refloat and repair her?
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Old February 20th, 2013, 06:31 PM
HMS Warspite HMS Warspite is offline
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Originally Posted by naraht View Post
Not sure what you are saying at about the USS West Virginia, by saying she was a CTL, that it would have been cheaper to build a new USS WV than refloat and repair her?

That is correct. Time however demanded the USN to lift the ship and repair it, while later in the war, such damage would have resulted in writing off the ship. Note the ship was out of action untill mid 1944!!
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Old February 21st, 2013, 09:12 PM
sloreck sloreck is offline
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The Utah was not a functioning warship, so "restoring" it was not an issue. IMHO if the Arizona not blown up, you'll see it back in action as a gunfire support ship like most of the old battleships. Of course, no memorial and fewer deaths, however the net effect on the war is zero.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 09:40 PM
Brother Stormhammer Brother Stormhammer is offline
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I don't think one extra battleship would've had any real impact on any of the battles during the war (the ones that USN battleships actually participated in were mostly one-sided as it was), and given that Arizona is a land-locked state, the USS Arizona probably isn't going to make it to museum status, either. She's not a good candidate for post-war reserve retention (14" guns and age), so more than likely, she winds up as either a nuclear test target or razor blades.

One (probably trivial) long term result of her surviving Pearl Harbor would be that the name would be available for other ships (possibly one of the Virginia-class CGN, or an Ohio-class?).
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Old February 21st, 2013, 09:56 PM
Alternate History Geek Alternate History Geek is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Stormhammer View Post
One (probably trivial) long term result of her surviving Pearl Harbor would be that the name would be available for other ships (possibly one of the Virginia-class CGN, or an Ohio-class?).
Could we be ending up with an Arizona-class?
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:42 PM
Peabody-Martini Peabody-Martini is offline
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The Arizona being damaged but not destroyed means that she gets sent back to the West Coast for repairs. Beyond that her career would mirror that of her sister ship, the Pennsylvania. After spending WW2 traveling between hotspots in the Pacific and European theaters. She would likely be scraped within a few years of VJ Day.

A part of me would find the idea poetic of the Arizona becoming a museum ship moored in Pearl Harbor in the same spot she rests IOTL.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 05:06 PM
tiggerfan tiggerfan is offline
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Assuming the dud bomb still penetrates to the magazines we could have the legend of the luck of the Arizona.
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