A Jewish state survives in Palestine

Could a Jewish Palestine have survived? I assume it would require the avoidance of the crazy 1st Century rebellion.

I also guess it would have allied against the crusaders with Islam. Would it have survived?
 
Could a Jewish Palestine have survived? I assume it would require the avoidance of the crazy 1st Century rebellion.

I also guess it would have allied against the crusaders with Islam. Would it have survived?

A Jewish homeland in a sea of Christianity and Islam? If it even survives that long.
 
Are you sure it isn't billions?

A billion is a thousand million, so technically it could be both. :p

But in either case, while I'm not sure a Jewish state could survive - I kind of doubt it - speaking about "Islam" or "Crusades" with a POD more than a century (at most) before they happened is really cruel to the poor butterfly.
 
Could a Jewish Palestine have survived? I assume it would require the avoidance of the crazy 1st Century rebellion.

I also guess it would have allied against the crusaders with Islam. Would it have survived?

As mentioned already, it's not going to work if Islam and Christianity arise. We need either a failure of absolutist monotheism ("those who won't join us are against us, and eternally damned to boot!") [1] to arise or the Roman Empire converting to Judaism. Or perhaps an early collapse of the Roman Empire that allows the Jews to establish themselves as a regional power, although long-term survival is trickier, especially if the aformentioned monotheism arises. In any event, things must change sufficiently that you are not going to get anything at all like our 1096.

Bruce

[1] Israel probably still gets conquered a few times, being where it is, but other states - Armenia, Georgia - have been conquered to reemerge later.
 
Technically, it could therefore be a large number of tens, or perhaps twos if you want to go binary. :)

Bruce

:p

Exactly.

Sufficient to say, this scenario should focus on whether or not you can even have it last at all when Roman feelings towards the Jews are less than warm.
 

sdrucker

Banned
As mentioned already, it's not going to work if Islam and Christianity arise. We need either a failure of absolutist monotheism ("those who won't join us are against us, and eternally damned to boot!") [1] to arise or the Roman Empire converting to Judaism. Or perhaps an early collapse of the Roman Empire that allows the Jews to establish themselves as a regional power, although long-term survival is trickier, especially if the aformentioned monotheism arises. In any event, things must change sufficiently that you are not going to get anything at all like our 1096.

Bruce

[1] Israel probably still gets conquered a few times, being where it is, but other states - Armenia, Georgia - have been conquered to reemerge later.

How about a POD where the 7th Century CE Persian invasion of the East Roman Empire is more successful, and there's Jewish autonomy in Palestine until Islam emerges due to a higher Jewish population. The trick is to have Islam grow but treat Palestine as a dhimmi vassal state.

I didn't say it would be easy.....
 
Technically, it could therefore be a large number of tens, or perhaps twos if you want to go binary. :)

Bruce
Lets just say infinite butterflies died and call it a day:p

All honesty the area of palestine is a very poor one for nation building, so this Jewish state would probably have a best case scenario of being like OTL's Armenia, namely a distinct culture and ethnicity that is consistently steamrolled by more powerful nations from every direction imaginable, but still retains its national identity and attempts to reform itself every time the regional overlord weakens.

As was said, the crusades and quite possibly Islam and maybe Christianity are butterflied away depending on the PoD you use, and in any event their involvement in crusade would be the least of the effects of such a state upon the world.
 
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