The NEW Our TimeLine Maps Thread!

[Nietzsche]

Originally Posted by Communist Wizard

I don't know, but I see indepenent Karelia, Scandonavian Finlansd, and a large Poland. Also, Uber-Mongolia.

There's also an independent Danzig.

[Silverite]

Hey! That's the map of SNOR Russia and most of Eurasia from El Bethisad!

[Knight Templar]

Originally Posted by Ofaloaf

One of which Massachusetts railroad? I merely got the base maps from here, and created cleaner versions on GIMP that highlighted a few cities and weren't nearly as large as the raw wikimedia files.

The font's Rosewood, if I recall correctly. Probably can be found on dafont.

Thanks....

[Chris S]

Chinese administrative divisions and military regions, 1967

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middl...-10-67-map.jpg

posted the image, but it seemed huge! Not sure if it would be right to post.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Chris S

Chinese administrative divisions and military regions, 1967

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middl...-10-67-map.jpg

posted the image, but it seemed huge! Not sure if it would be right to post.

Ooh, in Wade-Giles no less! Very nice...

[Thande]

As Qazaq isn't around for a bit, I thought I'd try and modify his 1803 Old World map for 1812 (compare with original here: http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...8&d=1247950089 )

I can't claim to match his genius, so please let me know any changes I forgot - in particular I suspect more should change in India with the Second Anglo-Maratha War, but I can't find any sources on just what happened.

[Qazaq2007]

Thande,
Not a bad job, but the rest of the Rhine Confederation needs to be colored in w/ the French puppet light blue. and the borders for Moldavia need to be changed as well, for Bessarabia was already part of the Russian Empire by 1812. I know I haven't been around much as of late, due to my mom passing on, and now dealing w/ an aunt in a hospital w/ a stroke, so as a consequence I haven't been up to drawing and posting maps as of lately, but rest assured I will be back, and who knows, I may do an 1812 version of my 1803 OW BAM myself, when I no longer have to deal w/ family matters almost constantly. If you come across any info on the geographical aftermath of the 2nd Anglo-Marathan war up to 1812, please pass it my way so I can include it on my version of the map, thanks in advance.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Qazaq2007

Thande,
Not a bad job, but the rest of the Rhine Confederation needs to be colored in w/ the French puppet light blue.

I realise you could count the whole Confederation as a French puppet, but I wanted to distinguish between the states ruled
directly by Napoleon's family members and the others. I suppose I could use outlining for that instead...

and the borders for Moldavia need to be changed as well, for Bessarabia was already part of the Russian Empire by 1812.

OK.

I know I haven't been around much as of late, due to my mom passing on, and now dealing w/ an aunt in a hospital w/ a stroke, so as a consequence I haven't been up to drawing and posting maps as of lately, but rest assured I will be back, and who knows, I may do an 1812 version of my 1803 OW BAM myself, when I no longer have to deal w/ family matters almost constantly. If you come across any info on the geographical aftermath of the 2nd Anglo-Marathan war up to 1812, please pass it my way so I can include it on my version of the map, thanks in advance.

Best wishes with your troubles.

Here's the first draft of the Americas in 1812. I debated whether to include the nascent rebels in Spanish America (outside the UPSA and Paraguay, that is)
because some of them were really just autonomous committees ruling in the name of the King of Spain at this point. I just added the areas with radical
republican rebel control, at least as far as I could find out. The USA should be pretty accurate, though, as there's plenty of information for that.

[Qazaq2007]

Thande,
Thanks, man. It has been very rough on me and the rest of my family. As for the Rhine Confederation, the use of outline color in the French puppet light blue is a great idea to indicate subject states that are not ruled by members of Napoleon's family, versus the states ruled by Napoleon's relatives, which you have shown w/ surface coloring. Great job on the Americas map. The areas of rebellion in the Spanish territories kind of look like holes chewed into the map by parasites. The portion of western Louisiana between the Calcasieu and Sabine rivers was in dispute until the borders were firmed up under the Adams/Onis Treaty of 1819 between the US and Spanish America. BTW, What's up w/ Haiti being split into north and south? Of all the stuff I have read about Caribbean history in the early 1800s, never made mention of it.

[Chris S]

Originally Posted by Qazaq2007

Thande,
Thanks, man. It has been very rough on me and the rest of my family. As for the Rhine Confederation, the use of outline color in the French puppet light blue is a great idea to indicate subject states that are not ruled by members of Napoleon's family, versus the states ruled by Napoleon's relatives, which you have shown w/ surface coloring. Great job on the Americas map. The areas of rebellion in the Spanish territories kind of look like holes chewed into the map by parasites. The portion of western Louisiana between the Calcasieu and Sabine rivers was in dispute until the borders were firmed up under the Adams/Onis Treaty of 1819 between the US and Spanish America. BTW, What's up w/ Haiti being split into north and south? Of all the stuff I have read about Caribbean history in the early 1800s, never made mention of it.

Q, best wishes to you and your family as well.


As for Haiti, it actually was split in two: two of Dessalines' advisers helped instigate a coup against him in 1806 and shortly after divided the country into two rival regimes with Henri Christophe ruling the State of Haiti in the north and Alexander Petion ruling the Republic of Haiti in the south. Christophe essentially re-established slavery in all but name in the north and in 1811 proclaimed himself King Henri I and his State of Haiti became the Kingdom of Haiti until 1820 (upon Henri's death) when it reunified with the Republic of Haiti.

The two Haitian states even had separate flags which is what gave rise I think to the two competing Haitian flag designs of "black and red" (used by the Kingdom and early revolutionary Haiti) and "blue and red" (used by the Republic and also by early revolutionary Haiti). The black and red was last used by Duvalier.....

Actually looking over at the World Statesmen website, it seems Haiti has undergone even more periods of fission. In 1810-1812 there was a secessionist department of the south which split from the southern Republic of Haiti. In 1868-1869 two secessionist states (republic of the north and southern state of haiti) split from the reunified Haiti and in 1888-1889 a northern republic of Haiti split from Haiti. Then of course there is the 2004 rebellion in northern Haiti which saw the declaration of a republic which I believe was more a provisional revolutionary republic with the intent of overthrowing the established order in Haiti at the time as opposed to seceding (the other secessions from 1810-1889 might have been similar events).

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Qazaq2007

Thande,
Thanks, man. It has been very rough on me and the rest of my family. As for the Rhine Confederation, the use of outline color in the French puppet light blue is a great idea to indicate subject states that are not ruled by members of Napoleon's family, versus the states ruled by Napoleon's relatives, which you have shown w/ surface coloring. Great job on the Americas map. The areas of rebellion in the Spanish territories kind of look like holes chewed into the map by parasites. The portion of western Louisiana between the Calcasieu and Sabine rivers was in dispute until the borders were firmed up under the Adams/Onis Treaty of 1819 between the US and Spanish America. BTW, What's up w/ Haiti being split into north and south? Of all the stuff I have read about Caribbean history in the early 1800s, never made mention of it.

I believe I have shown the disputed Sabine region, haven't I?

I'm thinking there might be a better way to show the rebel areas, maybe using a more refined method of the old "MSPaint spraycan" style...

Originally Posted by Chris S

As for Haiti, it actually was split in two: two of Dessalines' advisers helped instigate a coup against him in 1806 and shortly after divided the country into two rival regimes with Henri Christophe ruling the State of Haiti in the north and Alexander Petion ruling the Republic of Haiti in the south. Christophe essentially re-established slavery in all but name in the north and in 1811 proclaimed himself King Henri I and his State of Haiti became the Kingdom of Haiti until 1820 (upon Henri's death) when it reunified with the Republic of Haiti.

The two Haitian states even had separate flags which is what gave rise I think to the two competing Haitian flag designs of "black and red" (used by the Kingdom and early revolutionary Haiti) and "blue and red" (used by the Republic and also by early revolutionary Haiti). The black and red was last used by Duvalier.....

Actually looking over at the World Statesmen website, it seems Haiti has undergone even more periods of fission. In 1810-1812 there was a secessionist department of the south which split from the southern Republic of Haiti. In 1868-1869 two secessionist states (republic of the north and southern state of haiti) split from the reunified Haiti and in 1888-1889 a northern republic of Haiti split from Haiti. Then of course there is the 2004 rebellion in northern Haiti which saw the declaration of a republic which I believe was more a provisional revolutionary republic with the intent of overthrowing the established order in Haiti at the time as opposed to seceding (the other secessions from 1810-1889 might have been similar events).

Yeah, I had no idea about the two Haitis until I checked some stuff on Wiki for Caribbean details. I didn't know about that second secession. Couldn't find any details about the exact geographic division between the two main regimes, do you have anything?

[Chris S]

Originally Posted by Thande

Yeah, I had no idea about the two Haitis until I checked some stuff on Wiki for Caribbean details. I didn't know about that second secession. Couldn't find any details about the exact geographic division between the two main regimes, do you have anything?

I believe I might have something (will have to double check) although I doubt it's going to have an exact division. I vaguely recall that a river supposedly divided the two Haitis. Don't have anything on any of the subsequent secessions though - they might even have been limited to their respective capital towns which always seemed to be Gonaives and Les Cayes (restive cities those).

Here is something that might help though:

www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Haiti.pdf

or

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...5libqCDejSXD7A

It has King Henri's full title:

"Henry, by the Grace of God and Constitutional Law of the State, King of Haiti, Sovereign of Tortuga, Gonave and other adjacent islands, Destroyer of Tyranny, Regenerator and Benefactor of the Haitian Nation, Creator of Her Moral, Political and Martial Institutions, First Crowned Monarch of the New World, Defender of the Faith, Founder of the Royal and Military Order of St. Henry"

Since Gonave is that big island in the bay by Port-au-Prince, then assuming Henri wasn't just puffing himself up then we can assume that island belonged to the Kingdom of Haiti and that the border might have run to the coast of the mainland island somewhere in that vicinity.

Something else that might help would be to plot all of Henri's castles. If any fall south of the line you have then you know where the line should at least run to include Henri's pleasure palaces.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Chris S

I believe I might have something (will have to double check) although I doubt it's going to have an exact division. I vaguely recall that a river supposedly divided the two Haitis. Don't have anything on any of the subsequent secessions though - they might even have been limited to their respective capital towns which always seemed to be Gonaives and Les Cayes (restive cities those).

Here is something that might help though:

www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/Haiti.pdf

or

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...5libqCDejSXD7A

It has King Henri's full title:

"Henry, by the Grace of God and Constitutional Law of the State, King of Haiti, Sovereign of Tortuga, Gonave and other adjacent islands, Destroyer of Tyranny, Regenerator and Benefactor of the Haitian Nation, Creator of Her Moral, Political and Martial Institutions, First Crowned Monarch of the New World, Defender of the Faith, Founder of the Royal and Military Order of St. Henry"

Since Gonave is that big island in the bay by Port-au-Prince, then assuming Henri wasn't just puffing himself up then we can assume that island belonged to the Kingdom of Haiti and that the border might have run to the coast of the mainland island somewhere in that vicinity.

Something else that might help would be to plot all of Henri's castles. If any fall south of the line you have then you know where the line should at least run to include Henri's pleasure palaces.

Thanks for that.

[Nekromans]

Originally Posted by Thande

Thanks for that.

Speaking of Haiti, what happened with the Haitian African Republic in LTTW? Did that ever get covered?

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Nekromans

Speaking of Haiti, what happened with the Haitian African Republic in LTTW? Did that ever get covered?

Conquered by the ENA and annexed by the Confederation of Carolina, despite endemic Kleinkrieg by the natives in the interior.

[Chris S]

Thande, according to the short history book I have (a used copy of a Sketchmap History of the Caribbean) it seems that the line you had was approximately right and that it seems the border followed the Artibonite river up to a point and then deviated south of it to end up south of St-Marc. I also found the approximate locations of about 7 of Henri's 8 palaces:

Cap-Haitien, Milot (Sans Souci Palace), Jean-Rabel, Fort-Liberté, Saint-Marc, and the 365 door palace in Petite Riviere de l Artibonite plus La Citadelle. The island of Gonave apparently wasn't under the control of the Kingdom (Henri was just laying claim to it I guess in his title).

I've used the 1812 BAM map and isolated Hispaniola. I've shown the boundary from my source (very approximate border) and the location of those 7 palaces (red dots):

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Chris S

Thande, according to the short history book I have (a used copy of a Sketchmap History of the Caribbean) it seems that the line you had was approximately right and that it seems the border followed the Artibonite river up to a point and then deviated south of it to end up south of St-Marc. I also found the approximate locations of about 7 of Henri's 8 palaces:

Cap-Haitien, Milot (Sans Souci Palace), Jean-Rabel, Fort-Liberté, Saint-Marc, and the 365 door palace in Petite Riviere de l Artibonite plus La Citadelle. The island of Gonave apparently wasn't under the control of the Kingdom (Henri was just laying claim to it I guess in his title).

I've used the 1812 BAM map and isolated Hispaniola. I've shown the boundary from my source (very approximate border) and the location of those 7 palaces (red dots):

Excellent work.

I had guessed just from the historical context that it must have been about a half-and-half division, so that makes sense.

[Qazaq2007]

Thande,
You do have the dispute area in western Louisiana shown, but the borders you have drawn are approximate. The eastern border of the disputed area is marked by the Calcasieu River, but the border you have used is the one that I have drawn, which is the watershed boundary for the Mississippi and its tributaries. The Calcasieu River is just to the west of that. The western border of the disputed area is the Sabine River, which forms part of the border between TX and LA. The border you have drawn is slightly to the west of there, thus having the disputed area bleed a little bit into present day eastern Texas, almost into Beaumont. Sorry about the nitpicking. I may fix that later for you if you don't beat me to it.
Edit; Looked back at your map, and have seen that the western border of the disputed area is a close match to the course of the Sabine River, its just the eastern border of the disputed area is off.
Here's a little sketch map showing the limits of the disputed area in question.

[Qazaq2007]

Chris S.
Thanks for the support, man. It has been tough on me for the last several weeks. Also, thanks for the info. I am aware of the coups and counter-coups that occurred in Haiti back then, just never seen any maps showing Haiti fragmenting during all that mess.

[Chris S]

Originally Posted by Qazaq2007

Thande,
You do have the dispute area in western Louisiana shown, but the borders you have drawn are approximate. The eastern border of the disputed area is marked by the Calcasieu River, but the border you have used is the one that I have drawn, which is the watershed boundary for the Mississippi and its tributaries. The Calcasieu River is just to the west of that. The western border of the disputed area is the Sabine River, which forms part of the border between TX and LA. The border you have drawn is slightly to the west of there, thus having the disputed area bleed a little bit into present day eastern Texas, almost into Beaumont. Sorry about the nitpicking. I may fix that later for you if you don't beat me to it.
Edit; Looked back at your map, and have seen that the western border of the disputed area is a close match to the course of the Sabine River, its just the eastern border of the disputed area is off.
Here's a little sketch map showing the limits of the disputed area in question.

Hmm....I think I read on wiki that right after the purchase Spain disputed the extent of the Louisiana purchase claiming it was only the western shore of the Mississippi and the cities of St. Louis and New Orleans. Not sure when they dropped that claim.