Peninsular Campaign Succedes

Suppose the peninsular campaign succedes, Richmond is taken, and the CSA collapses, would slavery be abolished? I think if victory comes at any time before Lincoln comes up with the idea of the Emancipation Proclomation or even before it is implemented slavery just might not be abolished anytime soon.

If you disagree tell me how it is done.
 
I agree. I'll admit that I'm grossly under-informed about American history, but if the Confederacy was quickly brought back into the Union, I assume the focus would be on stabilising the South. Abolishing slavery would disrupt the Southern economy, which would be counter-productive. Perhaps they would ensure that any theoretical future conquests were made into free states (i.e. Canada).
 
Suppose the peninsular campaign succedes, Richmond is taken, and the CSA collapses, would slavery be abolished? I think if victory comes at any time before Lincoln comes up with the idea of the Emancipation Proclamation or even before it is implemented slavery just might not be abolished anytime soon.

If you disagree tell me how it is done.

I think it unlikely that McClellan takes Richmond before fall 1862. He may establish a siege of Richmond, but he won't know how to complete the attack. It took Grant ten months to take Richmond (from the start of the siege of Petersburg). How does McClellan do it any faster?

From the battle of Seven Pines (31 May) to Lee's attack at Mechanicsville (25 June) McClellan made no significant advance. Leave Johnston in command, and what changes?

After Seven Pines, McClellan abandoned any thought of fighting his way into Richmond, and instead decided to use heavy siege artillery to breach the defenses. (But he was still preparing this at the end of June.)

We'll suppose that after Seven Pines, Johnston makes no more counterattacks, but digs in from Chaffin's Bluff on the James to the Chickahominy near Mechanicsville. McClellan brings up his guns, and starts bombarding. Nothing happens, except a few men are killed on each side. Maybe, if McClellan really masses the siege guns, he can force the Confederates back a few hundred yards at a time, across a few hundred yards of front, with each push taking a week to set up and execute. (If it's possible at all. There is no evidence from the Civil War of anyone doing this successfully. Fortifications either fell to assault or to starvation.)

Richmond is five miles to the rear, and the front is about eight miles wide. That means forty square miles to take, in bites of maybe a quarter square mile - 160 weeks. Now obviously when the line is pushed back far enough in one sector, that can force additional withdrawals, so divide that by four. That still means forty weeks.

Lincoln will get frustrated, and propose the EP (or a variant). If Richmond has not fallen by January 1863, it will be ignored by the South, and will come into effect.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
It took Grant ten months to take Richmond (from the start of the siege of Petersburg). How does McClellan do it any faster?

To be fair, when Grant arrived in front of Petersburg, the Army of the Potomac had essentially been shattered in the Wilderness, Spotsylvania and Cold Harbor. A very large portion of its best soldiers lay in shallow graves that had just been dug across central Virginia. The army's offensive power was badly reduced, as demonstrated by its failure to take Petersburg despite massively outnumbering the rebel defenders. By contrast, McClellan's army was in fine condition when it arrived in front of Richmond in the summer of 1862.

Of course, this is McClellan we're talking about here...
 
To be fair, when Grant arrived in front of Petersburg, the Army of the Potomac had essentially been shattered in the Wilderness, Spotsylvania and Cold Harbor. A very large portion of its best soldiers lay in shallow graves that had just been dug across central Virginia.

There were comparably many Confederate casualties... The Army of Virginia that would resist McClellan's siege was as healthy as the Army of the Potomac - neither had taken major casualties in the campaign.

So I don't see any relative advantage for McClellan in 1862.
 
Suppose the peninsular campaign succedes, Richmond is taken, and the CSA collapses, would slavery be abolished? I think if victory comes at any time before Lincoln comes up with the idea of the Emancipation Proclomation or even before it is implemented slavery just might not be abolished anytime soon.

If you disagree tell me how it is done.


What would Congress' attitude be?

Can we envisage it refusing to readmit Southern States until the latter have adopted gradual emancipation schmes?
 
I think it unlikely that McClellan takes Richmond before fall 1862. He may establish a siege of Richmond, but he won't know how to complete the attack. It took Grant ten months to take Richmond (from the start of the siege of Petersburg). How does McClellan do it any faster?

From the battle of Seven Pines (31 May) to Lee's attack at Mechanicsville (25 June) McClellan made no significant advance. Leave Johnston in command, and what changes?

After Seven Pines, McClellan abandoned any thought of fighting his way into Richmond, and instead decided to use heavy siege artillery to breach the defenses. (But he was still preparing this at the end of June.)

We'll suppose that after Seven Pines, Johnston makes no more counterattacks, but digs in from Chaffin's Bluff on the James to the Chickahominy near Mechanicsville. McClellan brings up his guns, and starts bombarding. Nothing happens, except a few men are killed on each side. Maybe, if McClellan really masses the siege guns, he can force the Confederates back a few hundred yards at a time, across a few hundred yards of front, with each push taking a week to set up and execute. (If it's possible at all. There is no evidence from the Civil War of anyone doing this successfully. Fortifications either fell to assault or to starvation.)

Richmond is five miles to the rear, and the front is about eight miles wide. That means forty square miles to take, in bites of maybe a quarter square mile - 160 weeks. Now obviously when the line is pushed back far enough in one sector, that can force additional withdrawals, so divide that by four. That still means forty weeks.

Lincoln will get frustrated, and propose the EP (or a variant). If Richmond has not fallen by January 1863, it will be ignored by the South, and will come into effect.

That must be an interesting question you answered, but it certainly wasn't mine:)
 
Taking Richmond will be a big blow, but I don't think the CSA will collapse just yet. It'll probably take several more major defeats before they give up the ghost. Historically, they launched an invasion of Middle Tennessee and Kentucky in the summer of 1862 so there are forces available for some kind of counterattack.

Likely the capital will relocate farther south - Atlanta maybe - and the war will continue. Another big defeat in 1862, or a string of them by 1863 could end the war before the end of 1863 though.

Regardless, by summer 1862, I think Lincoln already intended to announce the Emanicpation Proclamation or something like it. Several antislavery acts or laws were already made by that time. Lincoln was just waiting for a victory to announce it. Historically he discussed this with his cabinet in July 1862. McClellan taking Richmond int he summer will either move this decision up to happen after the victory, or the victory will move Lincoln to decide to do it in the first place.

I think the only way the Emancipation Proclamation won't happen is if the CSA immediately offers peace and restoration of the union provided that such an act not be done. I don't think the Confederates would be willing to do that at this point even if Richmond is taken. While the border states might be willing to do it, I think the Deep South would still fight on.

I think what becomes complicated is passing of any anti-slavery amendments if the southern states are readily admitted to the union before 1864. The question is whether people would think outlawing slavery would cause the war to last longer than without it. Since amendments require broader support than just the President's decision, a lot of negotiating will need to happen.
 
McClellan had several moments and vast amounts of time from which he had the advantage and could have dealt a destructive blow or at least greatly injure the confederates on the peninsula, example: In late April-May 1862 McClellan had been planning for and was about to execute a plan in which Franklin and several divisions were to be ferryed up the York river and land behind the then confederate line at Yorktown, which at this point was beginning its retreat over to Richmond, and from thereby catching the confederates between the two converging forces that being Franklin's force and the main army under McClellan. Of course what ended up happening in reality was that McClellan took his sweet ass time getting Franklin's men ready and the confederate army had already managed to withdraw the bulk of its forces under Johnston in to the proposed landing area rendering the movement useless, the only action being the heavy skirmish at Elthams' Landing. Also Franklin wasn't in any position to attack any ways because McClellan and the Navy only managed to Land a single division, hardly enough at that point to do any good. (If Franklin had landed near Elthams at any date leading up to or on the date of May 4th 1862 instead of the actual landing on the evening of May 7th there would have been ample opportunity to strike.)
 
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Suppose the peninsular campaign succedes, Richmond is taken, and the CSA collapses, would slavery be abolished? I think if victory comes at any time before Lincoln comes up with the idea of the Emancipation Proclomation or even before it is implemented slavery just might not be abolished anytime soon.

If you disagree tell me how it is done.

Among other things, a successful Peninsular Campaign would have required a more aggressive and capable commanding general. George B. McClellan was a superb organizer, and very charismatic, but he was also very timid and in many instances more cautious than he should have been. Caution is good, but to win battles and win a war, some daring is required.

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Am I the only one clicked on this expecting it to be about Napoleon? :mad:

That would be the Peninsular War, not the Peninsular Campaign.
 
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