AHC: Maximum plausible Canada

Teshuvah

Banned
Title. Make Canada as big as possible. Only limitation is that Quebec has to remain part of it. Any POD after 1763 is acceptable.

-AYC
 

d32123

Banned
I could see Canada getting Alaska, the Pacific Northwest, and some Caribbean islands. Any more than that and it's not really Canada.
 
US loses the War of 1812 and New York and New England are incorporated back into British North America. Those who wish to remain in the US are permitted to leave NY & NE. Later on, the British Empire purchases Alaska from Russia and adds it to her Canadian Dominion.
 
US loses the War of 1812 and New York and New England are incorporated back into British North America. Those who wish to remain in the US are permitted to leave NY & NE. Later on, the British Empire purchases Alaska from Russia and adds it to her Canadian Dominion.

US pretty much lost the War of 1812 as it was...
 

iddt3

Donor
US loses the War of 1812 and New York and New England are incorporated back into British North America. Those who wish to remain in the US are permitted to leave NY & NE. Later on, the British Empire purchases Alaska from Russia and adds it to her Canadian Dominion.
And It's not Canada anymore because New England is a fair bit more populated then the rest of Canada put together.
 
Besides the part of Northern Maine, Alaska, the little triangle of Minnesota. It could have the northwest part of the Oregon Territory with the Columbia River forming the border from the 49 parralel to the Pacific Ocean.
 
Maybe a bigger British victory in 1812, leads to the annexation of some parts of Michigan and Indiana Territory. Maybe the Treaty of 1818 sets the border at a more southern parallel. New England secedes and incorperated back into BNA. Alaska and Oregon Territory are gobbled up later.
 
Depends on the POD. It could be possible for a Canada to stretch from Louisiana to OTL Canada if the French defeat the British. This leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the American colonists, so when they rebel (if they do at all), France doesn't help, making Britain win, therefore New Orleans isn't a city that they'll want, allowing said Canada to grow and possibly flourish.
 
the British Empire purchases Alaska from Russia and adds it to her Canadian Dominion.

Friendly reminder: Russia is not selling Alaska to the British . There are those who argue that one of the primary factors for Russia's sale of Alaska to the States was because they felt that they couldn't defend it well enough from the British and sure as hell didn't want the British to get it...
 
Depends on the POD. It could be possible for a Canada to stretch from Louisiana to OTL Canada if the French defeat the British.
That will give a strong British North America, but such a vast and disparate territory is unlikely to coalesce into a single country, especially if the United States is significantly weakened.

Which is ultimately the problem of a bigger Canada— it can only expand at the expense of the US, but the weaker the US is the less likely Canada is to form.

I think the most plausible scenario is Britain doing better in 1812 and annexing a bunch of the American Northwest, which in turn means when the BNA-US border is finalised later on, it's below the 49th and follows the geography better. When the Columbia/Oregon territory dispute comes up— if Britain doesn't keep the whole thing— it's partitioned along the Columbia River instead of the 49th, giving Seattle to British Columbia. Without the US having any good ports in their pacific northwest, Alaska is considered an absurd acquisition and it eventually falls into British hands.

So a bit bigger, but not hugely.


Friendly reminder: Russia is not selling Alaska to the British . There are those who argue that one of the primary factors for Russia's sale of Alaska to the States was because they felt that they couldn't defend it well enough from the British and sure as hell didn't want the British to get it...
Russia actually did approach Britain as well (in hopes of starting a bidding war), but Britain was uninterested. I think Russia's concern wasn't Britain taking it so much as Britain taking it for free.
 
1755: The British don't expel the Acadians, instead preferring to attempt to integrate them into their growing empire in North America, figuring that when they defeat the British, the Acadians will be integrated into the British Empire. They are successful at this.

1763: Britain defeats France at the Plains of Abraham, thus securing that the British control Upper and Lower Canada as well as the Maritimes. All of New France east of the Mississippi River becomes part of the British Empire, which Britain moves quickly to settle. As before, French colonists in the new territories are allowed to stay, in the case for the areas between the Mississippi and Upper Canada more because of problems moving them than anything else.

1774-83: The American Revolutionary War sees the British defeated by the American forces. The French get involved in this and help early and often, leading to a major rift between the two continental powers. Britain is incensed, but also fears that the American revolutionaries will attack the British territories in North America that stay loyal to the Empire. This leads to Britain stationing a considerable number of troops in Canada, though they do not trust the locals enough to allow them self-governance.

1800-04: Neogitations over the purchase of Louisiana Territory by the Americans and the French are interrupted when Britain, still angry over its defeat in North America twenty years earlier, notifies Napoleon that if he does give up all of New France to the Americans, the British will invade a major portion of it. France scoffs at the idea, but as Jefferson only wishes to have the area around New Orleans, he also negotiates with Britain. France insists on selling the whole territory - and they also believe that if it is all ceded to Britain, they will have problems controlling the land. Jefferson buys the whole works, forcing the British to send more men to present-day Michigan, Wisconsin and parts west, fearing a war between the two nations.

1812-15: The War of 1812 breaks out. Britain's forces are initially overwhelmed, but this doesn't last long as the Canadians rose up to defend their homes in numbers, assisted very ably by Native Americans who wished to have their own confederacy in the Midwestern states. Britain's sponsorship of these had been a sore point for a long time, and the Americans felt that taking over Canada could be easily done. They are initially successful, but after Britain's troops arrive in numbers and the Native Americans side openly with the British, the war turns ugly for America, particularly in the Midwest. The British take a massive swath of the Louisiana Purchase territory, extending their territory's borders all the way to the Missouri River. The Treaty of Ghent which ends the war cedes to the British everything between the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers and all of Wisconsin. The loss of any hope of the British confederacy and the actions of the Americans cause Native Americans, who are at the time a major majority in the territory, to be very loyal to Britain.

1816-Present: Huge-scale immigration from the British Isles grows Canada's population by more than one and a half million between 1816 and 1846. These new populations spread out across the provinces of British North America. The Western Canada territory, as it is called by Washington, takes over a third of this, as well as big numbers of Native Canadians.

1837: The Rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada are short but strike a nerve in London. By this point, however, Britain and America are at peace and Washington has no interest in challenging Britain's territorial status. The Durham Report which follows the abortive rebellions recommends responsible government be established in British North America, which becomes reality in the years that follow.

1846: Britain and America enter into a real alliance, with America choosing not to contest the British claim in Oregon territory, which results in Canada's territory expanding to include the areas north of the Columbia River. This is initially seen as a loss by some of then-President James Polk, but would prove to be valuable in the years to come. Britain, however, as a sign of good faith allows all Americans in the territories to remain, expelling no-one, and parties who land in Oregon Territory on the British side in the 1850s are allowed to stay as well.

1861: The outbreak of the American Civil War is a massive problem for America, allowing President Lincoln to ask for Britain's initial non-belligerence in the war and for them to explicitly not recognize the Confederacy. Britain does this, but also goes a couple steps further in saying that no escaped Confederate slave will ever be returned to the Confederate States of America, and at the same time improving the living standards of native Canadians and push for revolts inside the Confederacy. This help is appreciated by Washington, and it helps speed the Confederacy's defeat. Washington wins the war, slavery is outlawed in America and the formal alliance between Washington and London grows powerful.

1866: Britain unifies the Colonies of Vancouver Island and British Columbia.

1867: Canada is confederated as a nation under the British North America act. Canada is established with six initial provinces - Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Michigan. By now, transport links between all of the provinces are strong. Canada's first population count in 1867 counts a population of 5,432,000 (a 57% increase on OTL). Later on that year the Canadian Government, with London and Washington's knowledge and approval, buys the Russian America territory from Russia. Russian America initially becomes part of the North-West Territories.

1869: America's Transcontinental Railroad is completed at Promontory, Utah, simplifying transportation links between the Western and Eastern coasts of America.

1869-70: Rupert's Land is bought from the Hudson's Bay Company by the Government of Canada. As immigration continues to flow (as well as now from other nations besides the British Isles), population begins moving westward, both into Michigan, Wisconsin and the territory of Western Canada. This causes a major problem in the Red River regions, particularly among the Metis, who despite codified legal protections for Native Canadians (enacted in 1862 to help quell unrest in Canada as well as to help the United States against the Confederacy), the Metis inhabitants of the Red River region lead a Rebellion in 1870. This rebellion fails, but the province of Manitoba joins Confederation in 1870 as a result.

1871: British Columbia joins Confederation, with a promise to physically connect the Pacific Coast colonies to the rest of Canada by rail.

1874: Wisconsin and Minnesota Territories formally join Canada as provinces, becoming the ninth and tenth provinces.

1880: Iowa becomes the eleventh province. The province of Wisconsin's border is as OTL plus the Upper Peninsula, Minnesota is as OTL minus the areas south of Minnesota River. Iowa is everything east and north of the Missouri River, west of the Missisippi and south of the Minnesota. Michigan is as OTL minus the Upper Peninsula.

1885: The Canadian Pacific Railway is completed at Craigellachie, British Columbia. The North-West Rebellion breaks out in this years as well. Here it is much bigger than the 1870 Rebellion, but is fairly easily put down by Canada. Recognizing that Louis Riel's execution would make him a martyr, he is sentenced to life imprisonment rather than execution.

1885-1914
: The population of the Western Provinces explodes. The Canadian Pacific Railway is soon joined by several other railroads further to the South, including the Detroit-Chicago-Minneapolis-Seattle Northern Pacific Railway, built by Donald Smith, who had also been a key player in the building of the CPR. Population growth in the 1875-1900 period largely goes to the provinces between the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers, but after 1900 the population of the more northerly areas explodes.

1896: The Klondike Gold Rush becomes real when gold is discovered in Yukon Territory, drawing thousands of men to the region. Realizing the problems, Yukon Territory is broken off from the Northwest Territories in July 1898. The first railway in that part of the world is the White Pass and Yukon Route Railway, which begins operation in 1898.

1899: The Boer War sees the first Canadians units sent to an overseas war - something which is immensely popular with the English population, but much less so with French-Canadian and Native Canadian populations. Prime Minister Wilfrid Laurier allows a volunteer force to be sent, the best compromise in his deck, but one which angers both sides. Regardless, Laurier, who is Prime Minister from 1896 to 1911, works hard to force a Canadian identity, and has considerable success at it.

1901: Alaska Territory is formed from the Northwest Territories.

1905: Alberta and Saskatchewan become the twelfth and thirteenth provinces. Here, the boundaries of Alberta and Saskatchewan extend down to the Missouri River.

1906: The Royal Canadian Navy is formed in Halifax, Nova Scotia and Seattle, British Columbia. This is initially done through transfers of British ships, but in keeping with Laurier's wish for a true Canadian identity and something to be proud of, Canada orders two battlecruisers, HMCS Canada and HMCS North America, to be the flagships of Canada's fleet. These are ordered in 1912, but are mostly finished when WWI breaks out. Both are completed in 1915-16 as similar vessels to the British Renown class.

1907: The second set of massive riots in Vancouver leads to major debates about the divisions in society. The RCMP are sent in to restore order,

1912: The borders of the Territories are adjusted, giving Manitoba the OTL borders down to the border with Iowa as well as territory up to 60 degrees Lattitude. Everything not part of Manitoba south of Hudson Bay is made part of Ontario, Quebec gains everything east of Hudson and James Bay.

1914-1918: Canada declares war as part of the British Empire on the Triple Entente. The Canadians leave the war having a repute for being fearsome fighters, the Native Canadians the most feared of all. In addition to this, while few French-Canadians serve, many Native Canadians do, and as a result the problems related to Native Canadians largely fade in the years after WWI.

1917: The Battle of Vimy Ridge is the first battle of WWI where the Canadian Corps, made up of five divisions, takes on the Germans almost entirely on their own - and they hand the Germans a legendary defeat, as three days of fighting sees the Canadians move German units off of the ridge, contributing considerably to the success of the offensive. The battle is seen as one of the most famous of Canada's turning points, and in addition to shocking the Germans, it leads to the Europeans coming to have major respect for their counterparts on the other side of the Atlantic.

1918: Women are granted the right to vote in federal election, and the franchise is extended to all people in Canada, regardless of race. The provinces, several of which had already done this, all follow by 1921 except Quebec, which does not extend the franchise to women until 1940.

1919: Canada and Australia, in recognition of their huge sacrifices in the War, are granted seats of their own at peace conferences. Canada largely demobilizes at the end of the war, returning to civilian life. In July 1919, Canada also nationalizes several bankrupt railroads into Canadian National Railways.

1919-1945: Canada avoids involvement in European politics to as great an extent as possible, but unlike the United States, the nation does not turn inward. The Chinese Immigration Act in 1923 is passed by the nation, and would end up becoming a national shame before its removal in 1947. Despite this, the immigration from Europe grows over time, particularly as the United States gets more isolationist.

1921: On the suggestion of former Prime Minister Robert Borden in 1917, The Turks and Caicos Islands are integrated into Canada. The Islands are initially part of the province of Nova Scotia, but that changes over time.

1922
: The Canadian Radio Broadcasting Commission is formed, more than anything to fight the influence of American radio stations and entertainment companies in Canada. This Commission becomes the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in 1927.

1926: The Balfour Declaration, proposed first by Canadian PM William Lyon Mackenzie King and his South African counterpart, J.B.M. Hertzog, is accepted by London, expanding the amount of power Canada has over foreign affairs. This is extended further by the Statute of Westminister in 1931.

1929-1939: Canada's domestic problems forced the nation to pay little attention to foreign affairs, but while communist and fascist groups would grow, neither would gain much influence. R.B. Bennett and Mackenzie King would see the results of American President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's reforms in the United States, however, and many were copied in Canada during the 1930s, massively expanding and improving many aspects of Canadian infrastructure. The largest of these by far is a rail line from North Portland, British Columbia, to Fairbanks, Alaska, namely to develop Alaskan resources and safeguard the territory from the Japanese.

1936: In response to continued belligerency in Europe, Canada begins re-armament, one of the first acts being to call battlecruisers Canada and North America, in reserve since 1921, back to the colors. Both are extensively rebuilt and improved, and re-commission in 1939. The re-armament also had the benefit on creating orders for Canadian industry.

1939-45
: World War II forever ends any idea of Canada being just a part of Britain's empire. With Canadians fighting in all theatres of the war and doing so with distinction. The First Canadian Army is part of the battle against the Afrikakorps and then part of the invasion of Italy. Two complete Canadian Field armies are part of the invasion of Europe in 1944 and 1945.

1941: HMCS North America gets her first brush with real fame in WWII when she, along with British battleships Prince of Wales and Rodney, take on the German battleship Bismarck and destroy it. This, in addition with the Canadian Navy's rapid mobilization, makes a very loud statement about the Canadians being able to handle their own in the battle of the Atlantic.

1942: HMCS Canada is dispatched to reinforce Force Z out of Singapore, but arrives much too late to save Prince of Wales or Repulse (Canada is similar in design to the Repulse in any case), but it is instead assigned as part of the ABDA force, where her and the rest of her fleet battle the Japanese hard, with Canada claiming two Japanese heavy cruisers in the battle for the Java Sea and saving several of the vessels of the ABDA fleet from destruction. Canada is the main British Empire big gun during all of WWII in the Pacific until Okinawa, fighting in every battle from Guadalcanal to the battle for Okinawa, damaged once by torpedoes, once from the gunfire of Japanese battleship Kirishima and three times by kamikazes, but the Canadian battlecruiser comes to have one of the finest records of the war.

1944
: Canada is one of three nations to invade German-occupied France on D-Day. Even more than Vimy Ridge, the Battle of the Atlantic and HMCS Canada's exploits, Operation Overlord and the Canadians landing at Juno Beach goes down in history as one of the nation's finest hours. Canada is actually quicker to its objectives than the British or Americans are, and they had drawn the toughest of nuts to crack. The First Canadian Army proves to be one of the toughest units of the war, almost single-handedly liberating the Netherlands, an action that would never be forgotten by the Dutch.

1945: Following the defeat of Germany, the Canadian armed forces are part of the actions against Japan, particularly both Canada and North America, the latter being made famous in Canada by demanding an opportunity to go after Japan's monstrous battleship Yamato, Captain Harry DeWolf, loudly calling Admiral Chester Nimitz, wanting for his battlecruiser Canada and fast battleships New Jersey and Missouri to go after the Yamato, saying over the radio "Our guys got hammered by Kirishima and took it, and now we can get the bloody Yamato!" Nimitz has to admit that he couldn't be angry at DeWolf, saying "If I was in his position, I'd want go to go after that big SOB too." The First Canadian Division was part of the operations on Okinawa, their last big battle of WWII, where like the others they took appalling casualties.

1945-1960: Canada's place established in the world, Canada is seen at the end of WWII as a strong middle power, a reality that Ottawa adjusts to in the 1950s and 1960s, as well as having to accept the consequences of the ending of the British Empire, as the United Kingdom is effectively bankrupted by World War II. A huge baby boom results from the economic improvements of the war and the aftermath of it.

1946: Canada and Australia (joined also by New Zealand and South Africa in this case) take their seats at the table for the peace conferences after the war. Denmark, bankrupt and needing funds for rebuilding, receives offers to sell Greenland by both Canada and the United States, but neither are accepted. Both nations establish bases in large numbers there, though.

1948: The referendums on Newfoundland's status are at first inconclusive, but the second referendum in July 1948 is a win for Confederation, and Newfoundland becomes part of Canada as its fourteenth province on March 31, 1949.

1949: After Newfoundland accession into Canada, Britain proposes that Bermuda be admitted to Canada, also as part of the province of Nova Scotia. Bermuda denies this, instead proposing the idea of the Bahamas and Bermuda being part of a Canadian province. Britain considers this idea as well.

1951: Alaska Territory, which now has a population of 204,000, is admitted to Canada as its fifteenth province. This proves to be a sign of things to come - Alaska's population will explode after mineral explorations add to the discoveries, and especially after the huge Prudhoe Bay oil field is discovered in 1967.

1955: The West Indies Federation, established only three years before, is proposed for a union into Canada. This is a surprise to the Canadians, but the idea has considerable support, and Britain is in favor of the idea in an attempt to help its finances. The debates over it are loud and fierce, with support on both sides of the equation. In the end, Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent is in favor of it, and the idea gains steam. Negotiations over the structure of the union are debated throughout the 1950s.

1958: Bermuda expresses that they will join Canada as its own territory, though they will seek provincial status with the Bahamas if the Bahamas becomes part of Canada.

1960: After years of debates, the plan for the British Caribbean territories to join Canada appears. The plan has Bermuda and the Bahamas as one province, Jamaica, British Honduras and the Cayman Islands as a second and the British West Indies islands as a third, with the provinces of Bahamas, Jamaica and West Indies seeking to join Canada as real provinces. This solution is seen as acceptable, especially as Canada's decentralized federation lends itself to the idea. Referendums on the subject are passed through the islands in the 1960s, with all in favor to various degrees.

1964: The province of The Bahamas and Bermuda becomes the sixteenth province of Canada on July 1, 1964, with its first MPs also taking their seats in an elaborate ceremony presided over by Prime Minister Lester Pearson in Ottawa the very next day.

1965: Following the final settlement of the political differences, Jamaica becomes Canada's seventeenth province on February 1, 1965. Jamaica includes the island itself, as well as Belize and the Cayman Islands. On this same day, the Turks and Caicos becomes part of the province of The Bahamas and Bermuda.

1967: The debates run rather longer for the other British territories of the West Indies, but in the end the debates are settled here as well, and on July 1, 1967, Canada's 100th Birthday, the West Indies become the eighteenth province of Canada.

1978: Britain proposes to transfer the Falkland Islands to Canada's jurisdiction, but this idea does not go far because of Ottawa objecting to the idea, stating that the Falklands are much too far away for Canada to easily support them. After Argentina's invasion in 1982 and Britain's subsequent re-taking of the islands, the Falklands stay British.
 
this plus northern maine and that bizarre little triangle of minnesota that sticks up into canada

That little Triangle? It's the U.S. prime copulation tool with canada:p:p

IMHO I don't really think Canada could expand that much. The problem is that the U.S. is in the way of any large expansion......
 
And It's not Canada anymore because New England is a fair bit more populated then the rest of Canada put together.

That depends on when.

Presently the entirety of New England has a population of 14.4 million while Canada has a population of 34.8 million.

The last time New England had more people than Canada was the 1850's; 1860 was roughly the point when Canada became more populous.

In 1812 Canada (or rather Upper and Lower Canada) had a population of about 450,000 compared to New Englands population of about 1.48 million.
 
Alaska, a bigger chunk of the Oregon Territory - perhaps down to the Columbia River, northern Maine, Lake Champlain. I don't see Canada ever getting involved with the Caribbean.
 
I don't see Canada ever getting involved with the Caribbean.

Their were several times IOTL in the late 19th and mid-20th century that various Caribbean territories were prposed to be added to Canada, even now their's majority support in the Turks and Caicos Islands for joining Canada.
 
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