Not Another Confederate Victory TL: Divided Californias

Malta

NACVTL- Not Another Confederate Victory TL
Basically what I am looking at is Bear and Confederate Flags over the West Coast.

The first scenario to divide California would have to involve the Secession Crisis to be delayed by perhaps just a year or two to allow the Southerner, Pro Secessionist Southern California to get the Pico Act passed in Congress and allow it to form a separate state.

The next have Albert Johnston be more Pro Secessionist and as military commander over the West Coast support Pro Secessionist militias and the curious attempts to seize San Francisco and Oregon (more the former then latter). Which would likely involve messing with the Fort Mohave garrison.

Possibly last but not necessary but would be interesting for Pro Confederate forces to win in New Mexico with Sisby.

That they survive isn't necessary I suppose. Might give inclination for Britain to interveane concerning Oregon.
 
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Johnrankins

The chances of California seceding are near zero. They weren't even close to doing so OTL so why do people keep coming up with this?
 

M79

A Confederate California is less likely than a British or Mexican one in 1861. The maximum plausible Confederacy in 1865 if they win with maximum possible outcome might reach the Colorado river but not the Pacific ocean without major butterflies before the ACW.
 

Malta

Historically speaking Southern California was populated by Southerners. The commander of Union forces fled east and joined the Confederates after Texas seceded.
 

Fiver

King of Malta said:
The first scenario to divide California would have to involve the Secession Crisis to be delayed by perhaps just a year or two to allow the Southerner, Pro Secessionist Southern California to get the Pico Act passed in Congress and allow it to form a separate state.
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Southern California wanted to be a separate state from California; it did not want to secede from the US. Only 2 counties voted Breckinridge majorities and only a couple dozen of them were will to take up arms for the Confederacy.
 

Johnrankins

Fiver said:
Southern California wanted to be a separate state from California; it did not want to secede from the US. Only 2 counties voted Breckinridge majorities and only a couple dozen of them were will to take up arms for the Confederacy.
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Exactly, an independent or a pro-CSA CA is a no go.
 

Malta

Fiver said:
Southern California wanted to be a separate state from California; it did not want to secede from the US. Only 2 counties voted Breckinridge majorities and only a couple dozen of them were will to take up arms for the Confederacy.
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The Los Angeles and San Bernando Counties, Visalia, San Joaquin Valleys, Santa Clara, San Fran, and Monterey. There was the California Colum, but it seemed that other Pro Secessionist miltias and regiments attempted to form but were headed off by the Then Still Loyal Johnston and then his successor. They had to reinforce the region by pulling troops from their frontier forts.

As I headed these revolts succeeding in a long term is not necessary. If large portions of the state region had seceded they would only have geography to delay the inevitable or diplomatic aid.
 

wolf_brother

Banned
Even if the Pico Act was passed by Congress you wouldn't get a slave state, and certainly not a state interested in supporting the confederacy.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Southern California does not seem to be the most fertile land for slave work. The Missions might have also been a bit of an issue. Did the area have any large land owners who had disliked the United States for the Mexican-American War? If so... Probably would hate the Confederates even more, as Southerners were the ones who kept invading.
 

TheNordicBrit

Have the Pico Act go through and not be sidelined, then Southern California splits off as the Territory of Colorado. Culturally speaking Southern California was very close to the Confederacy.
 

Malta

Clandango said:
Southern California does not seem to be the most fertile land for slave work. The Missions might have also been a bit of an issue. Did the area have any large land owners who had disliked the United States for the Mexican-American War? If so... Probably would hate the Confederates even more, as Southerners were the ones who kept invading.
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Lets see you have Californios Land Owners and Ranchers (the Pico Act was authored by a Californio), plus Southerner Settlers from the South angry at the California/Federal government and supporting their home states in Secession (look at Johnston. He didn't quit the Union cause until his home state of Texas seceded and once it did he traveled all the way to Richmond to take up a Confederate Army commision).

http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/history/32239-how-southern-california-tried-to-split-from-the-north.html

Johnston's replacement, Brigadier General Edwin V. Sumner, later wrote to his superiors at the War Department about Los Angeles:
There is more danger of disaffection at this place than any other in the State. There are a number of influential men there who are decided Secessionists, and if we should have any difficulty it will commence there.​
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​
 
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Clandango

Clandango

TheNordicBrit said:
Have the Pico Act go through and not be sidelined, then Southern California splits off as the Territory of Colorado. Culturally speaking Southern California was very close to the Confederacy.
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How? I doubt that the Mexicans felt the same way. Catholics were blamed by the Confederates after the war for their defeat. Despite the Pope being the only head of state to technically recognize the Confederacy, all the while refusing Lincoln's request to have an American cardinal. One. Cardinal.
 

Fiver

King of Malta said:
The Los Angeles and San Bernando Counties, Visalia, San Joaquin Valleys, Santa Clara, San Fran, and Monterey.
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Looks like my previous info overestimated Breckinridge support.

Los Angeles County - 40.0% for Breckinridge
San Bernadino County - 23.4% for Breckinridge
Tulare County - 43.4% for Breckinridge
San Joaquin County - 40% for Breckinridge
Santa Clara County - 22.7% for Breckinridge
San Francisco County - 17.9% for Breckinridge
Monterey County - 31.0% Beckinridge

All total in those counties, Lincoln got 41% of the vote, Douglas 26.5%, and Breckinridge 24.8%. This area actually went more strongly for Lincoln than the state as a whole. Southern California secession was a non-starter.
 

Malta

The divide doesn't seem all that much for a organized Confederate military force to be able to hold the region, and of course it was events following the Election that constantly made people change sides from supporting the Union or going against it. Take events in Missouri that heightened Pro-Confederate sentiment.
 
Clandango

Clandango

King of Malta said:
The divide doesn't seem all that much for a organized Confederate military force to be able to hold the region, and of course it was events following the Election that constantly made people change sides from supporting the Union or going against it. Take events in Missouri that heightened Pro-Confederate sentiment.
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Like what?
 

Malta

Besides any one of the Pro Secessionist riots that emerged constantly in Southern California in which Union forces were called to quell them? Perhaps the Belleville Incident becomes a much more bloodier affair with Union troops firing on protesters thus inflaming Southern Californians to revolt. Such as the Camp Jackson Affair.
 

frlmerrin

Banned
The first scenario to divide California would have to involve the Secession Crisis to be delayed by perhaps just a year or two to allow the Southerner, Pro Secessionist Southern California to get the Pico Act passed in Congress and allow it to form a separate state.
Click to expand...

This is not really going to work, it is just not going to get past the Federal Government for all sorts of reasons. Even if it does it does not mean the state will join the Confederacy I can't see the Californios and majority foreign born wanting that. If Southern California does declare for the South then the rump California in the north has a larger population and can defeat its southern counterpart militarily. What is interesting is that as a result of this it may well be that the Confederates are able to hold and consolidate in their New Mexico territory. The California column will not be threatening the western flank of the territory any time early in the war and the Confederates can concentrate on defeating the troops from Forts Union and Craig.

The next have Albert Johnston be more Pro Secessionist and as military commander over the West Coast support Pro Secessionist militias and the curious attempts to seize San Francisco and Oregon (more the former then latter). Which would likely involve messing with the Fort Mohave garrison.
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This might be possible but it would take a less honourable Johnson than in OTL.


Possibly last but not necessary but would be interesting for Pro Confederate forces to win in New Mexico with Sisby.
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With the California column threatening the flank difficulties in supply and a desert environment this is pretty unlikely.

If you really want an independent California coming out of the ACW you need a Trent Affair war with the British and it needs to get serious.
 
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