A Different Russia

Industrial Russia- 1825-1848: Beginnings

This TL assumes some knowledge of Russian history. Wikipedia has a pretty good Russian history section if some of the names and terms are unfamiliar. Also, if I simply list an event with no description, assume it follows OTL.

POD 1825- Grand Duke Constantine does not marry a non-royal Polish woman, and inasmuch is eligible to receive the office of Tsar. Thus, when Tsar Alexander I dies on schedule in 1825, his nomination of Constantine as Tsar is accepted. A disappointed Nicholas I settles in for a life of hunting and dancing. Constantine is surprisingly liberal, at least compared to the typical Russian leader. He has spent much of his life in Poland, which at the time has one of the most advanced, progressive constitutions in Europe. Constantine was devoted to this Polish state, and very much shaped by his experiences there. There is no Decembrist Revolution, as the immediate cause for this was an attempt to place the more-liberal Constantine on the throne rather than the old-school Nicholas. Thus, the emerging Russian intelligentsia and modernizers found in the Decembrist Movement are not crushed and forever branded as enemies of the state. In the future, such forward-thinking people will have much more influence than in OTL.

1820’s- Speransky begins his immense codification and reorganization of the jumbled Russian law system. Under the pressure of Constantine, the new Russian system of law modeled after the Polish constitution contains more economic and governmental reform. In addition to removing the old feudal customs of law, it grants many new rights to serfs and begins the long process of breaking the power of the landed gentry in Russia. Serfs now have a shorter work week, more freedom of movement, the power to buy themselves out of serf status, and equal status under law. It also establishes an elected advising council for the Tsar, the Duma (I don’t speak Russian, if this is the wrong term, feel free to correct me). However, Constantine does not really give any heed to the Duma, alternately ignoring, dissolving, and then reforming the council, depending on his mood at the moment. (As much as I would like Russia to have some semblance of democracy, it is just not realistic if there is no middle class clamoring for rights. Russia is not getting democracy until it gets industry, and a class actually capable of leaning on a Tsar and making him give up some power).

1826-1828- War with Persia over Georgia. Russia wins handily, with General Ivan Paskevich becoming a national hero for his efforts. The Treaty of Turkmanchai grants Russia parts of Armenia including Erivan, naval rights on the Caspian Sea, commercial concessions, and an indemnity.

1828- War with the Ottoman Empire over the Greek Independence Movement. Russia, along with Britain and France, support the right of Greece to independence. Russia defeats Turkey, gaining the mouth of the Danube, some Caucasus territories, and the usual rights and indemnities. Unlike Nicholas, Constantine actively supports the rebellion. Constantine was raised by his grandmother, Catherine the Great, with the goal of creating a Constantinople-centered Orthodox Empire. Though in his adulthood he realizes this is not possible, he still sympathizes with the Orthodox Greek cause.

1830- Revolts in Paris and Belgium, with lesser unrest in Italy and Germany. Constantine, as required by the Treaty of Versailles, sends troops to help quell the uprisings, though he has no strong convictions about the necessity of maintaining the old order. He immediately recognizes the July Monarchy of Louis-Philippe, and opens diplomatic relations with Belgium.

Warsaw Revolt- Polish Nationalists, as in OTL, rise up against Russian rule. However, they lack the support of the peasants and common folk. Constantine has actually been observing the Polish Constitution, giving Poland a lot of say in its own internal affairs, and not forcibly Russifying Polish culture. Lacking a mass of angry peasants (a prerequisite of just about every rebellion), the uprising is easily handled by the local garrison, and does not even make the front page of the St. Petersburg Times.

1832- Due to the much-less successful Polish Revolt, and corresponding lack of a major Russian military presence, the Organic Statute is not put into effect. This law would have made Poland an indivisible part of the Russian Empire, attempted to erase the independent Polish culture, and appointed an authoritarian military governor. Poland keeps its special status within the Empire.

Mohammad Ali declares Egypt independent. The Ottoman Empire appeals to various European capitols for help. None is received.

1833- Convention of Berlin. Prussia, Russia, and Austria pledge to come to each other’s aid in event of a rebellion.

1830’s- First tendrils of industrialization creep into Russia. Due to Constantine’s reforms, capital labor steadily gains an advantage over manorial. Many landlords begin to go into debt, and the dispossessed serfs migrate into cities looking for work. Small pockets of factories utilizing British-imported steam-machinery grow up around Moscow, St. Petersburg, and the Ural Mountains. A middle class begins to arise in the North, selling their manufactured goods to the still overwhelmingly rural South. In particular, cotton and steel prove key components. However, Russia’s manufactures are not up to British or French quality, and so have little draw in Europe. The main market is still domestic, and increasingly, Central Asia and China.

1837- Victoria ascends to the British throne.

1838- First Anglo-Afghan War. The British, fearful for India in the face of Russian advances towards Central Asia, invade Afghanistan. Start of the “Great Game” between Russian and Britain over Central Asia.

1842-1848- Continued Russian industrialization in all sectors. Landlords continue to plummet, while the urban population rises due to the movement of serfs. Many new factories are built, especially along the Volga River. Western ideas continue to penetrate into Russia.

Growth of the Slavophiles. In the words of Riasonovksy: “a group of romantic intellectuals who formulated a comprehensive and remarkable ideology centered on their belief in the superior nature and supreme historical mission of Orthodoxy and of Russia.” They are quite successful, as Constantine is an enthusiastic supporter. Calls for Slavic unification intensify.

Overview- Russia has a much less autocratic, reactionary ruler than Nicholas. Due to this, serfs are granted many more rights (though still not completely freed) earlier than in OTL. The great Russian legal reform of Speransky is also taken to a further degree in bringing Russia an efficient government (though they are still a long ways from a "good" government). This has caused an earlier decline of the old feudal economic system in Russia, and corresponding earlier growth of other industries. Poland has maintained its special status within the Empire, and its modern liberal constitution is a model for where Russia should head. Most significantly for the rest of Europe, Constantine is much less of a reactionary than Nicholas. Russia in TTL has much less vigor for sending hundreds of thousands of troops to help squash rebellions in Germany, France, Austria, etc.

The next installment will deal with the effects of this different Russia on 1848, and the Crimean War. Please leave some feedback... this is my first real TL and I would love some suggestions for improvement.
 
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I know it is a bit short, but this part of the TL is really just a set-up for all the fun that comes in the second half of the 19th century.
 

Straha

Banned
The US will be the second fiddle to russia in this TL's 20th century. A democratic nation with all those resources would be so dominant that no other power would emerge....
 
Considering the USA, do you have plans for Alaska? I like Russia keeping it.:)

Oh, and nice timeline. I'll follow it.
 
The US will be the second fiddle to russia in this TL's 20th century. A democratic nation with all those resources would be so dominant that no other power would emerge....

I am not so sure. For one, democracy is not going to come easily to Russia. Democracy most frequently comes about when the middle class acquires enough clout that they demand representation. Most European countries acquired heavily democratic institutions around this time and they had 300 years of merchants/factory owners behind them. Russia has just barely begun to gain such a class. The Tsar is still supreme. The Duma Constantine established has zero real power, and can be dssolved at any time (which it is, but then reestablished).

Secondly, Russia is not coming even close to using its resources. I don't have any numbers (perhaps in a future update...) but Russia is still being lapped industrially by Great Britain, France, US, and some others. This will change as industrialization continues, but for now, they are by no means an economic power.

Considering the USA, do you have plans for Alaska? I like Russia keeping it.

I've thought about the issue, and to be honest, I am not 100 percent either way. For keeping Alaska to make any sense, it would have to provide some role in the Empire. Its not populous enough to be another domestic market for manufactures, and the fur trade there basically has been on the decline since the 1700's. OTOH, Russian New World colonies are inherently cool. Plausibility... coolness...plausibility....coolness.... lol I think i might have to go with reality on this one and sell Alaska.

Oh, and nice timeline. I'll follow it.

Thanks!
 
Weren't America and Russia reasonably friendly during the mid 19th century? I wonder if you could end up with an early long lasting alliance between Russia and the United States in this timeline.

Initially it could be set up to serve as a counterweight against Britain in Asia and the Americas but later it ends up being an instruement for economic, scientific and military co-operation between the two powers.
 
King Gorilla said:
Weren't America and Russia reasonably friendly during the mid 19th century? I wonder if you could end up with an early long lasting alliance between Russia and the United States in this timeline.

Initially it could be set up to serve as a counterweight against Britain in Asia and the Americas but later it ends up being an instruement for economic, scientific and military co-operation between the two powers.
Maybe Imperial Russia and the U.S. divide the Northern Hemisphere between themselves:D
 

Straha

Banned
Perhaps eventually the formantion of the Grand Dominate of Russomerika? The blessed Tsar Ronald Reagan rules for all eternity, enbalmed and kept alive on the golden throne. He rules over a million world and unnumbered souls. His mighty space marines fight for the glory of Russomerika throughout the galaxy.
LONG LIVE THE TSAR! MAY HIS GUIDING LIGHT FOREVER SHINE IN THE INFINITE WARP!!
 
Straha said:
Perhaps eventually the formantion of the Grand Dominate of Russomerika? The blessed Tsar Ronald Reagan rules for all eternity, enbalmed and kept alive on the golden throne. He rules over a million world and unnumbered souls. His mighty space marines fight for the glory of Russomerika throughout the galaxy.
LONG LIVE THE TSAR! MAY HIS GUIDING LIGHT FOREVER SHINE IN THE INFINITE WARP!!

just wait until the revolution.
 

corourke

Donor
This is a good timeline. Does Russia, now boasting a modest middle class, feel any tremors from the 1848 revolutions?
 
DarkSlavik said:
just wait until the revolution.

Well there was a rebellion, how do you think he got on his golden throne? Alzheimers? ha! No, the dark gods of liberalism swept through his cabinent corrupting some of his greatest and most loyal servents. Over half of the Imperium turned against him led by none other than George Bush the accursed and the galaxy was bathed in blood and atomic fire. Thankfully Reagan personally challanged and defeated the traiter on a battleship orbiting the burnout husk of earth. Only after all traces of progressivism were burnt out of his former comrades soul was he willing to ascend to his throne in triumph.


But seriously, given a more expansionistic united states and a typically land hungry tsar I don't think it would be too unreasonable to see the two powers partitioning a still backward Japan in response to British and French conquests in southeast asia. By butterflying away a Japanese great power Russia would be free to puppet or outright absorb manchuria, korea and north china.

A progressive minded tsar could also seek and most likely obtaining American expertise in improving Russia's farming technigues. Although Russia was a major grain exporter, given the size of its territory and rural workforce it was amazingly unproductiveGranted alot of the problems were cause by a large narrowminded, poor, illeducated population of serfs inhabiting a climate that is renown for short growing seasons. But the still available open land of the Ukraine and siberia/central asia would be ideal testing grounds for the establishment of prosperous freeholding farming class. If this is sucessful Russia could come to rival America for being the breadbasket of the world.
 
Excellent TL here.

Now the challenge comes. Break Russian tradition and get another liberal Czar on the throne after Constantine. You've gone a long way towards making it plausible by having Constantine be only slightly more liberalizing.

Though I think a revolt of some kind is inevitable. And if there is, its going to be a big blow to Russian liberalization, as Russia is big on grand sweeping gestures. The only hope we have there is that the Czar dies early. Perhaps hemophilia?
 
Industrial Russia- 1848: The Shattering

1848 February- Revolutions break out across Europe, and indeed, the entire world. The middle class and common people are disgusted by the lack of representation and basic rights in their countries. In Russia, unlike OTL, there actually is a small uprising by the nascent merchant/industrialist class. The moderate demands of the middle class are pushed towards the extreme by rural wild-eyed revolutionaries and anarchists like Bakunin, who advocate the complete destruction of the Tsarist state. This second group is largely based in the great agricultural areas of the South. United in their discontent with the government, the two factions ally, choosing the name of an old debate society.

In France, King Louis-Phillipe is forced to resign, and the Second Republic is formed.

Prussian Poland rises up against the harsh rule of their Germanic masters.

March- The coalition, called the New Decembrists, sends a formal letter to the Tsar in March expressing their demands and concerns. The urban middle class (“High Decembrists”) and rural revolutionaries (“Low Decembrists”) strike a compromise on what to ask the Tsar for, despite mutual distrust between the two factions. There are few specific demands, but the main points of the letter are as follows: the establishment of a popularly elected assembly that acts a balance on the power of the Tsar, and the unconditional emancipation of serfs in Russia. The High Decembrists are the main backers of the first demand, and the Low Decembrists the second.

In the Hapsburg Empire, Metternich is forced to resign as ethnic tension begins to seethe. Milanese citizens, after boycotting Austrian products, are massacred by Austrian army forces. The entire city rises up in expelling the Hapsburgs. Milan allies itself with Sardinia-Piedmont. Other Italian kingdoms such as The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, Tuscany, and the Papal States, promise to aid Piedmont and Milan with troops against Austria, but back out of their promise. Hungary under the leadership of Kossuth declares independence from Austria.

In Prussia, King Friedrich Wilheim yields to revolutionary pressure and enacts parliamentary elections, a constitution, and freedom of the press.

Universal male suffrage in France.

April- The Tsar Constantine sits on the letter for a few days, deciding what to do. Fearing the same development as France, he overestimates the actual strength and numbers of the Decembrists (though in reality they have relatively few members). Eventually, he makes his decision. He sends large army forces to the main centers of the New Decembrists- St. Petersburg, Moscow, and Perm, to ensure no organized revolts break out. The Tsar threatens the middle class with a crackdown on their stores and factories if they do not cease with their demands. In secret, the Tsar establishes contact with the leaders of the High Decembrists, and gives them an alternative. If they renounce the anarchists and revolutionaries of the Low Decembrists, who the Tsar deathly fears will begin a massive peasant rebellion, the Tsar will allow the High Decembrists to survive. The Tsar, worried by the developments across Europe, wants to ensure the stability of his personal rule. Co-opting the urban middle class allows him to concentrate on crushing the potential rural revolutionaries. In what will become a turning point in Russian history, the High Decembrists agree to the Tsar’s offer. The urban middle class, alarmed by the possibility of utter destruction, quickly moves to distance itself from the rural anarchists in the coalition. The Low Decembrists, betrayed by their comrades, are purged as Constantine’s armies march in bloody fashion through the countryside, making sure peasants do not get the wrong ideas about revolution. The middle class, now partially aligned with the state, has assured its existence with the cost of a few thousand peasant lives. Ironically, Constantine completely misjudged the New Decembrists. In his fear of the Low Decembrists fomenting a traditional Russian peasant rebellion, he has brought the truly revolutionary forces of the High Decembrists under the umbrella of legitimacy. Though no reforms are made in Russia because of the 1848 events, it has set the stage for the future.

In Germany, the Frankfurt Assembly is gathered. Many small German states enact reforms similar to the Prussian ones.

May- Constantine’s sweep across the countryside looking for revolutionaries continues.

The Austrian court flees to Innsbruck. Austria is in big trouble. In OTL, the Tsar Nicholas was a tireless reactionary, sending huge numbers of troops and loans to Austria to help the conservatives keep power. In TTL, Constantine has the entire Russian Army on full battle alert, waiting for a revolution that will not come, and so cannot spare more than a smattering of troops to help the Hapsburgs. The Hungarians and Italians gain strength everyday, as Austria has to handle all the battles itself, without the help of Russian manpower.

The Romanian national movement, without a large Russian intervention on behalf of Turkey as in OTL, gains strength.

Prussian Poland capitulates and gives up its independence movement.

June- Austrian General Radetzky begins the retreat of his army from Lombardy. Despite routing the Italians at every encounter, there are too many other problems within the Empire for him to press his advantage. Hungary is virtually independent, the Serbs are restless, and all the other great powers are too bogged down in their own matters to help much.

The Austrian Army, undermanned with most of its troops quelling rebellion elsewhere, is chased out of Hungary by a joint Hungarian/Croatian/Serbian force.

“June Days” in France, with much civil unrest.

December- Napoleon III is elected President of the French Republic

Friedrich William swings back to the right. Power in Prussia returns to the Junkers and military elite.

Mazzini forms the Roman Republic. All across Italy, liberal revolutions rage. The Austrians have suffered major losses. All their Italian and Hungarian possessions have delcared themselves independent. The Bohemian and German territories remain loyal. The Polish and Ukrainian territories are on the brink, kept mainly in check by virtue of knowing they would be snapped up by Russia or Prussia.

Overview- The Revolutions of 1848 are dramatically affected by the absence of the supremely counter-revolutionary Nicholas on the Russian throne. In Russia, a limited movement by the New Decembrists arises. The middle class of the group betrays the rural in exchange for clemency and a grant of legitimacy from the Tsar. Because Constantine is busy marching the Russian Army all over his vast Empire trying to pre-empt a peasant rebellion (which does not come), he cannot send the 200,000-plus troops Nicholas sent to aid the Hapsburgs in OTL. France, Prussia, and Poland’s year goes as in OTL, meaning they cannot give much assistance either. Austrian troops are stretched far too thin to hold onto more than the core of the Hapsburg Empire. Lombardy and Venice gain independence, along with Hungary. Bohemia and the German areas are still loyal, with the Polish and Ukrainian areas somewhat contained.

Next- The aftermath of the revolutions of 1848. Look for some drama in the former Hapsburg realms (especially whether they can retain independence), continued change in Russia, and lots of other stuff. As always PLEASE give me feedback- if there are any suggestions or improvements you want to suggest, do so. I already plan to incorporate some other’s ideas into future segments of the TL. Oh, and here is a map for the situation as it stands at the end of 1848. It is ugly as shit, because I don't know how to do good maps. Perhaps some kind soul will grace this TL with half-way decent maps (HINT HINT HINT). Anyways, areas with green stripes are those still ostensibly part of the Austrian Empire, the unmarked parts are the "core", and those in red and yellow are independent for the time being.

1848.GIF

1848.GIF
 
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Very well done. And quite interesting. The future of this Russia is going to be interesting. A lot of the reason for the radicalization of politics in Russia in our timeline was due to the fact that started industrialization late, then went through the whole process at an astronomical rate compared with pretty much any other nation in history. This probably means a much more stable nation.

I think Straha is essentially right though. Russia is a natural superpower, it just wasted most of its opportunities for a century or so. Russian industrialization may be "backward" in 1850, but that's as much as saying they are 20-30 years ahead of schedule. They may lose in the Crimea, if everyone still gangs up on them, but after that it's pretty hard to imagine a war that doesn't end in sweeping Russian annexations.
 

Straha

Banned
Admiral Matt said:
Very well done. And quite interesting. The future of this Russia is going to be interesting. A lot of the reason for the radicalization of politics in Russia in our timeline was due to the fact that started industrialization late, then went through the whole process at an astronomical rate compared with pretty much any other nation in history. This probably means a much more stable nation.

I think Straha is essentially right though. Russia is a natural superpower, it just wasted most of its opportunities for a century or so. Russian industrialization may be "backward" in 1850, but that's as much as saying they are 20-30 years ahead of schedule. They may lose in the Crimea, if everyone still gangs up on them, but after that it's pretty hard to imagine a war that doesn't end in sweeping Russian annexations.
What do you mean only wasted them for a century or so? I'd count the USSR as wastage too. A democratic industrialzied russia.. .:eek: :eek:
 
Very well done. And quite interesting. The future of this Russia is going to be interesting. A lot of the reason for the radicalization of politics in Russia in our timeline was due to the fact that started industrialization late, then went through the whole process at an astronomical rate compared with pretty much any other nation in history. This probably means a much more stable nation.

First of all, thanks. Nothing makes time spent on a TL more rewarding than appreciation.

I agree with you about Russia's ludicrously fast industrialization in OTL. If you consider the rate of progress in Russia between, say, 1890 and 1910, the sheer pace of change is out of control. And you are correct, Russia is going to be considerably more stable than in OTL. However, there is a high probability that there will be a fairly intense struggle between the middle class when it gets more strength and the government. Nothing like the Bolshevik Revolution or such, but more along the lines of, say, France in 1848.

I think Straha is essentially right though. Russia is a natural superpower, it just wasted most of its opportunities for a century or so. Russian industrialization may be "backward" in 1850, but that's as much as saying they are 20-30 years ahead of schedule. They may lose in the Crimea, if everyone still gangs up on them, but after that it's pretty hard to imagine a war that doesn't end in sweeping Russian annexations.

Oh, I completely agree that Russia is a natural superpower. It was this largely unrealized potential that attracted me to Russian history years ago. When I made a post disagreeing with Straha earlier, I wasnt doubting that Russia would emerge as a dominant power. If there are no catastrophic events, it will- the resources+manpower+size combo basically ensures that. It was the "no other comparable power can emerge" part that I differed on. Mainly because I hate it when people fall in love with whatever country they are doing a TL for and make them improbably strong (US CONQUERS CANADA MEXICO AND SOUTH AMERICA!!!!!!!), and try to avoid it myself. Russia is doing rather better than OTL, but just remember, Great Britain is still the 1000 pound gorilla, the US is still on a path for greatness, Germany is set up to improve, and so there are going to be a lot of ingredients in the pot, so to speak. Sorry, no global Russian hegemony complete with thought police is going to come out of this TL.

Finally, it would be nice if some people could make predictions about how the Hapsburg situation will resolve. Will the rest of Europe let Austria lose most of its territory? or no? I have an idea of what I think will happen, but hearing other people's assessments is always interesting.
 

Straha

Banned
What I meant by no comparable powers woudl be that by the mid 20th century russia is top dog out of all the great powers.
 
What I meant by no comparable powers woudl be that by the mid 20th century russia is top dog out of all the great powers.

I guess we shall see! Deciding what to do in this TL is very fun because I have really tried not to work with a specific goal in my mind. You know what I mean, when you write a TL specifically working towards a certain conclusion- a Germany capable of Sealion, everlasting Mongol empire, etc. :) For this one, I am really trying to just work with the facts and not steer Russia into a certain direction just because I "like" it. The only time I did this was making the POD very favorable towards early industrialization, and well, isnt that the point of a POD a lot of the time?:D
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
He immediately recognizes the July Monarchy of Louis-Philippe, and opens diplomatic relations with Belgium.

Strikes me that if Russia is that quick to recognise this new reality then the chances that the Orleans prince will end up as King of Belgium are massively increased. Louis Philippe hasn't got anywhere near as many worries or misgivings and he could well accede to the wishes of the Belgians in this. An Orleans Belgium would then begin to have knock-on effects

Grey Wolf
 
It's a very well written TL and I like the format that you have written in. The whole twist on the Russian history thing is really well detailed. I do like how there is an overview at the second installment. Please, continue!:)
 
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