When You Wish Upon A Star 2.0

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by Arachnid

Good to see the normal laws of the political pendulum are operating though sad to see Cohn is the first to spot the swing, though he would be.



Just how much emigration are we talking about? If it's severe enough to cause significant labour shortages in an area of the USA that at this time had structural underemployment it must be pretty massive.

Consider the fact that a good chunk of the labor force (especially seasonal agricultural workers) is currently walled into ghettos.

Headdesk, because pulling this TL out of the mire of dystopia isn't an option .

Not quite true.

Still it's great to see this back and as for the Republican nomination in '64 Nixon is in with a shot but probably hasn't got what it takes, after all he was only a VP candidate, unlike OTL where he had two terms as VP under his belt. I like Goldwater anyway but his strong civil liberties stance could be a real asset. However there is an element of dear Enoch about him in his refusal to compromise his beliefs, when it's good that's great but it's a trifle dangerous when you're leader of the free world.

That is awfully dangerous, isn't it?

Originally Posted by 037771

So glad to see this back!



I was wondering whether you've written yourself into a corner with this bit, statichaos. If it is the Administration's intention to keep the files for blackmail purposes, isn't your scope for depicting it limited by how much we actually know about Hoovers trove of files? IIRC many were destroyed on his death.

Unless Stennis wants to be more magnanimous and dramatic than merely using the more salacious files for blackmail...

I have plans. Remember, they're not so much in the hands of Stennis as they're in the hands of the Justice Department. An subtle difference, but perhaps an important one. And since they were all destroyed, I get to decide for myself what they contain.

[037771]

Originally Posted by statichaos

I have plans. Remember, they're not so much in the hands of Stennis as they're in the hands of the Justice Department. An subtle difference, but perhaps an important one.

That's very true; I imagine Thurmond'll have more of a say in the matter than most.

Originally Posted by statichaos

And since they were all destroyed, I get to decide for myself what they contain.

Ahh, I was hoping you wouldn't say that Considering how far we are from the POD now though, I'd say some liberality in what's contained in the files is somewhat justified.

[Meadow]

Words cannot explain how excited I am to see this return. Will we have an insider in the Stennis White House telling us how things are in the Oval Office? I find him a fascinating figure and a potential-laden choice as an AH President. Is Brewer going to be the inside man, as Cohn and Jimmy 'press man' (sorry, completely blanked) were in AWOLAWOT?

And (I know you don't do international affairs much) but how fares noble Britannia? With Elvis (and Orson still?) in London, the Bea-, sorry, Quarrymen taking off and the Beatniks' street brawls with the Teddy Boys fresh in people's minds, any way of showing what the socio-political situation is like as the 1960s begin would be much appreciated.

[VidaLaVida]

Great to see this timeline has new life. AWOLAWOT was one of the greatest things I've ever read, and I'm eager to see where it continues. When, oh when, will things get better???

Also, I think the story could use an update on the war in Cuba. How many casualties has it seen? How many American casualties were there since the U.S. became involved? What are the Stennis Administration's plans for the war? This issue seems to have been on the back burner for a while, but I think it warrants some more attention.

One thing I can't help but think: Che Guevara's anti-Americanism has got to be raging by this point in time. If Arbenz was still removed through a CIA-backed coup ITTL's Guatemala, then Che would've gone immediately from that, to even more direct U.S. counterrevolutionary aggression in Cuba. Brrrr...

[rcduggan]

Interesting to see the parallels between the black emigration from the South ITTL and the modern Latino flight in OTL. Who will Stennis be opening up Southern markets to in terms of new labor? I forget if anything different has happened with Cuba ITTL (I know Hungary is no longer in the Soviet sphere, but did Disney handle Cuba any differently than Eisenhower did in OTL? I just had a random thought that if Castro comes to power, the Cubans who in OTL went to Florida might be brought in on a larger scale to work in the South...
Anyway, happy to see this return, looking forward to the disaster that Stennis's presidency will in all probability become (Four Years in Purgatory suggests that he'll be here for one term at most, and it will be awful). Who is Stennis's VP, btw?
EDIT: it's JFK himself, how could I forget? It would be amusing if Kennedy got into the White House after someone else was assassinated...

[Thande]

Originally Posted by Meadow

And (I know you don't do international affairs much) but how fares noble Britannia? With Elvis (and Orson still?) in London, the Bea-, sorry, Quarrymen taking off and the Beatniks' street brawls with the Teddy Boys fresh in people's minds, any way of showing what the socio-political situation is like as the 1960s begin would be much appreciated.

I have come to the conclusion that covering events outside America in detail would only detract from this TL, because really its purpose is to tell a story about the American people and how they could have ended up in a very dark place thanks to things going slightly differently. (Which is also true of Turtledove's TL-191, but this is better written). It needs to stay focused on its few viewpoint characters and handful of guests in order to stay coherent, and should only cover events outside the USA when they impinge on the USA--such as talking about the exilic American artists in the UK and Europe.

I suspect what will happen is that statichaos will invite us to help him flesh out what the wider world looks like for an appendix, sort of like how EdT does, but it will not be mentioned in the TL itself. Actually, it's kind of impressive how he can talk about a US presidency while barely mentioning international affairs except in how they impinge on American culture (like, if you were covering OTL in the same way, you would mention the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Vietnam War, but you wouldn't necessarily at any point say who the Prime Minister of the UK was).

[PCSwitaj]

Beyond words upon finding out that this timeline is kicking still, and I cannot wait to see where it is heading. I have no doubt that you will craft a realistic and exciting timeline.

As for the updates themselves sofar, the (seeming) foreshadowing of a disasterous Stennis administration does not bode well for the nation at all, and it will be interesting to see the list of "major errors," as Brewer put it, pile up.

I'm personally interested in following Dr. Hudson's story regarding the Second Diaspora, as the potential for what happens is unlimited. Do you have an actual location for where they ended up after their plane ride, as an actual "resettlement area", or was it more of a prossessing point before sending individuals and familes to whatever regions best fit what skills they are providing?

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by rcduggan

Interesting to see the parallels between the black emigration from the South ITTL and the modern Latino flight in OTL. Who will Stennis be opening up Southern markets to in terms of new labor? I forget if anything different has happened with Cuba ITTL (I know Hungary is no longer in the Soviet sphere, but did Disney handle Cuba any differently than Eisenhower did in OTL? I just had a random thought that if Castro comes to power, the Cubans who in OTL went to Florida might be brought in on a larger scale to work in the South...
Anyway, happy to see this return, looking forward to the disaster that Stennis's presidency will in all probability become (Four Years in Purgatory suggests that he'll be here for one term at most, and it will be awful). Who is Stennis's VP, btw?
EDIT: it's JFK himself, how could I forget? It would be amusing if Kennedy got into the White House after someone else was assassinated...

Cuba is a bit of a quagmire for the United States right now. There's currently a number of advisory troops down there. Fidel Castro was caught and executed by Cuban forces with the assistance of American troops. Since then, it's largely been a holding game, with Raul Castro's guerrillas hiding out, and occasional attacks on United States and Batista forces.

Four years could also represent how long the Deputy Attorney General chose to stay in his position (or until he was forced out), or it could indeed be the length of time Stennis stays in office.

[NoOneFamous]

Glad to see this back

[vultan]

Originally Posted by Thande

No problem.

Don't feel obliged to give Cryptic Hint Responses to our musings, but I'm pondering about who the Republicans might nominate in 1964. If they go by their usual practice of it being the runner-up/VP nominee from last time, it would be either Goldwater or Nixon. Or it could be a wild card. Goldwater I suspect may be more electable in the ATL 1964 than he was in OTL considering Stennis' "anti-terrorism" policies resulting in infringement of privacy (how familiar ) and Goldwater's libertarian angle striking more of a chord with the public.

That would be a boon for the conservatives in the long run. With Goldwater's campaign centered around "the intrusive government has no right to spy on people" rather than "the intrusive government has no right to force integration" (essentially playing an earlier Ron Paul), that butterflies away a lot of bad stereotypes.

Of course, there could be two different factions within the conservative wing of the GOP (and this is discounting the Rockefeller types): the Goldwater-style libertarians, and (even though he left the party) the Rockwell conservatives, who would make Rick Santorum look like Barney Frank...

[CobiWann]

Congratulations. You cause me to choke on my roast beef sandwich when I saw who was replacing Hoover at the FBI.

Welcome back!

[President Al Bundy]

Yay! It's back, and how! I mean, G. Gordon Liddy as the head of the FBI, plus Thurmond getting his hands on J. Edna's secret files? So horribly awesome.

[SiddFinch1]

Cool! Its back. Awesome news

[nerdknight01]

¡ Hi !: ¡ COOL !, ¡ IT IS ALIVE !, ¡ AWESOME !.

¡ WELCOME BACK STATICHAOS !. So many ideas, for start:

-Dr. Calvin Hudson it looks as one decent, wise and good people, and i can´wait for see how evolved their live in the Soviet Union, and by the way, it be possible, to see in this magnificent timeline, the survival and grow of one rich, democratic and free Soviet Union.

-The Quarrymen are doing one epic succesfully and popular european tour, bonus extra if their more popular famous song is not Yesterday, but one to happy and optimistic song about a nice future called Tomorrow.

-I liked Beano´s letters because his writtings show how are the life of common ordinary people everyday in this excellent timeline.

-Hoover is death, and i wonder if there exist some oportunity about Hoover´s files will ended in the hands of Cohn or some journalist.

-Cuba, what a nightmare, it be possible that no ofense please, that tropical´s island becoming some class of Vietnam.

-I can´t wait for see the next excellent adventure of Orson Wells and Ed Wood.

-And for last, is 1962, any oportunity for see what are doing these days Elvis, John Kennedy, and Marilyn Monroe.

Good luck.

[MaskedPickle]

Hell, this FBI appointment sure sends chills down my spine. Welcome back Statichaos!

[Thande]

Didn't Marilyn Monroe commit suicide in TTL after one of the moral guardian organisations blocked one of her films from being made or something like that?

[Wendell]

Reading this, I'm starting to wonder if there will be a Democratic Party in 2012, or if it will have been replaced by a progressive party on the left, and a right-populist party popular in the South. Anyway, Good work. It would be interesting thouh of Stennis found some poor white countries to provide his labor source. Hungary and Yugoslavia come to mind in this regard.

Regardless, keep it up!

[Emperor of Scandinavia]

I can see it now.

The Soviet Premier, Nikita Krushchev is speaking is speaking in Washington D.C.

He begins his speech attacking anti-semtism, racism, and the exploitation of the working classes.

He goes on to laud the great strides the Soviet Union has made, and cites the nation's great friendship with the PRI, People's republic of Israel.

Finally to conclude, Krushchev states "Mr. Stennis tear down these walls."

Also, gordon Liddy, as FBI director, WHAT???

If you thought the Watergate break in was bad, I have a feeling Watergate will be a summer picknic in comparison to what will happen here.

Finally, do you have any plans for Enoch Powell, the British politician who made the "Rivers of Blood" speech?

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor

[Japhy]

Alas, while admittedly there was a time I would have been giddy to see this back in the works, looking back, the original veered far too much into implausibility, and dystopia for dystopia's sake for me to really be interested in seeing what develops in this.

Good luck with the writing though Static, it was an enjoyable read when I first read it.

[statichaos]

Originally Posted by Japhy

Alas, while admittedly there was a time I would have been giddy to see this back in the works, looking back, the original veered far too much into implausibility, and dystopia for dystopia's sake for me to really be interested in seeing what develops in this.

Good luck with the writing though Static, it was an enjoyable read when I first read it.

That's fair.

However, I'm trying hard not to do dystopia for dystopia's sake with this work. While there are dystopic qualities (and plausibility is largely a matter of taste within any AH work), I don't think that this world qualifies as pure dystopia, at least not once one takes into account the hints that I've given of the future.

Thank you for the feedback, though. I appreciate the interest that you took, and you're always welcome back should you change your mind later on.