(Yes, I know this has been done a Million times, But I Figured it was worth another go.) The 1917 Eruption of the Yellowstone Super-Volcano in what was then the State of Wyoming in the United States of America is one of the most Important Events in History. So how would the 20th Century have gone if Yellowstone had stayed Quiet up to the Present Day?
DBWI: No Yellowstone Eruption
- Thread starter Victor Hatherley
- Start date
Well, for one, I would think that WWI would've gone on for a bit longer(instead of in Feb. 1918 like it did), and much of Northwest Wyo. wouldn't have been largely abandoned as it was. Who knows? Maybe there could've been some growth there, as there are some pretty fertile areas in northern Wyo. in general. Ah well, I guess we can only dream, huh?
I dont think the flu pandemic of 1918 would have killed nearly as many people if the weather hadnt been so cold and the famine in Europe so hard the year after the eruption. Who knows if the Armistice of 1918 would have happened if there hadn't been so many sick and dying people in Europe between flu and famine.
OCC: Be aware that an eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano would be several thousand times more powerful then the OTL 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens and that the ash fallout zone would cover all of the US west of the Mississippi. Also be aware of the massive humanitarian, economic, social and political crisis that will come to pass as a result of this eruption.
I'm guessing most of the Western Hemisphere and half of Eurasia would not have died. Just a guess though.
Well in the short term given no eruption, no massive ash cloud, no 'year of winter', no crop failures, no massive die offs of livestock, and no national crisis the US seemed to be heading toward an intervention in the Great War of the side of the Allies.
In his memoirs Wilson was always extremely vague about about the possibility. He never unequivacly stated one way or the other if it was a real possibility. Of course once the eruption took place there was no chance of teh US getting involved. America needed all its resources to deal with the millions of refugees evacuating out of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and other states hit hardest by the ash fall. The crop failures led to severe and unexpected food shortages. There was a wave of religious hysteria as preachers from one end of the country to the others declared it a sign that the end times had come.
It took the US economy a quarter century to fully recover.
While there was not a massive ash fall in Europe they were also effected by the year of winter as both sides suffered, though the Russians, Germans and Austrians suffered worst. With the US economy in ruins there was suddenly no more capitol available for loans for the Allies.
In June Russia collapsed into civil war. By September Austria was falling apart and French soldiers were openly mutinying, and there were food riots throughout Germany and the occupied territories. Millions of civilians in Poland, the Balkans, the Baltic, Rumania, Russia, Belgium, and occupied France would starve to death as there was simply not enough food. Britain was in the strongest position and even they were bankrupt and facing massive strikes at home and a growing revolt in Ireland.
With both sides falling apart and unable to even feed themselves the result was the October Armistice. It halted the fighting while leaving the armies in place. It was not meant to be a permanent stop to the war but turned into one as neither side was capable of restarting the war.
Germany and the British Empire could be called the 'winners' as they expanded the most. Germany occupying Belgium, Luxemburg, norther France, much of Poland, and incorporating about half of the former Austro- Hungarian Empire. The rest splitting up into Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. France lost all the territory the Germans were occupying at the time of the armistice. Italy suffered over half a million casualties and was unable to claim any additional territory. The Ottoman Empire was torn apart with much of its territory being claimed by Britain either directly or through puppet states. The Russian Empire disintegrated into sixteen independent ethnic states, many of whom are backward and warlike dictatorships.
The world since has been one of constant struggle as temperatures have dropped and the evidence indicated the world has begun a new Ice Age. Scientific advancement has been severely retarded as resources have needed to focus on food production with the remainder going into military armament. Since the end of the Great War there have been countless small border conflicts all over the globe as nations and empires fight for resources and food producing lands.
Without eh Yellowstone Eruption the world today would certainly be a brighter and warmer place.
In his memoirs Wilson was always extremely vague about about the possibility. He never unequivacly stated one way or the other if it was a real possibility. Of course once the eruption took place there was no chance of teh US getting involved. America needed all its resources to deal with the millions of refugees evacuating out of Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and other states hit hardest by the ash fall. The crop failures led to severe and unexpected food shortages. There was a wave of religious hysteria as preachers from one end of the country to the others declared it a sign that the end times had come.
It took the US economy a quarter century to fully recover.
While there was not a massive ash fall in Europe they were also effected by the year of winter as both sides suffered, though the Russians, Germans and Austrians suffered worst. With the US economy in ruins there was suddenly no more capitol available for loans for the Allies.
In June Russia collapsed into civil war. By September Austria was falling apart and French soldiers were openly mutinying, and there were food riots throughout Germany and the occupied territories. Millions of civilians in Poland, the Balkans, the Baltic, Rumania, Russia, Belgium, and occupied France would starve to death as there was simply not enough food. Britain was in the strongest position and even they were bankrupt and facing massive strikes at home and a growing revolt in Ireland.
With both sides falling apart and unable to even feed themselves the result was the October Armistice. It halted the fighting while leaving the armies in place. It was not meant to be a permanent stop to the war but turned into one as neither side was capable of restarting the war.
Germany and the British Empire could be called the 'winners' as they expanded the most. Germany occupying Belgium, Luxemburg, norther France, much of Poland, and incorporating about half of the former Austro- Hungarian Empire. The rest splitting up into Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. France lost all the territory the Germans were occupying at the time of the armistice. Italy suffered over half a million casualties and was unable to claim any additional territory. The Ottoman Empire was torn apart with much of its territory being claimed by Britain either directly or through puppet states. The Russian Empire disintegrated into sixteen independent ethnic states, many of whom are backward and warlike dictatorships.
The world since has been one of constant struggle as temperatures have dropped and the evidence indicated the world has begun a new Ice Age. Scientific advancement has been severely retarded as resources have needed to focus on food production with the remainder going into military armament. Since the end of the Great War there have been countless small border conflicts all over the globe as nations and empires fight for resources and food producing lands.
Without eh Yellowstone Eruption the world today would certainly be a brighter and warmer place.
OCC: This is not a DBWI. A DBWI is a WI from an alternate world where an event that did happen in OTL did not and then asking WI "it" had. For example -
From a world where President Nixon fired John Mitchell and Gordon Liddy from his re-election campaign (CRP) on June 20, 1972 after the break in at the DNC's headquarters at the Watergate Building, publically supported Att. Gen. Richard Kleindienst's investigation of the break in, and later that winter fired John Ehrlichman and H.R. Haldeman, comes DBWI: Nixon had conspired to cover up the involvement of people in his administration in the break-in at DNC headquarters?
From a world where President Nixon fired John Mitchell and Gordon Liddy from his re-election campaign (CRP) on June 20, 1972 after the break in at the DNC's headquarters at the Watergate Building, publically supported Att. Gen. Richard Kleindienst's investigation of the break in, and later that winter fired John Ehrlichman and H.R. Haldeman, comes DBWI: Nixon had conspired to cover up the involvement of people in his administration in the break-in at DNC headquarters?
OOC: Well this is from an alternative world, and history changed, and I believe that is all that is required, whether is an AH where something new happens or something familiar doesn't, it is beside the point (assuming I understand you).
We'd probably be in space, for one thing. I mean, over the last 50 years, the government's expressed some interest in starting a space program (so we can go off world in the cases of disasters such as these), but going to space costs money and resources that we really don't have. I could see aeronautics and robotics being way more advanced than they are now, we'd probably have intelligent robots by now if Yellowstone hadn't gone off.
One area that might be LESS advanced is the Linknet. We've only got the Linknet because the government saw the need for a robust computer network in cases of disaster, and their research eventually became the civilian Linknet. Without something like Yellowstone to make everyone realize that need, we'd probably be putting all of our computer power into robotics and spaceships.
One area that might be LESS advanced is the Linknet. We've only got the Linknet because the government saw the need for a robust computer network in cases of disaster, and their research eventually became the civilian Linknet. Without something like Yellowstone to make everyone realize that need, we'd probably be putting all of our computer power into robotics and spaceships.
USA was an emerging world power. If it weren't for the Volcano and the second civil war I believe that they would have incorporated Newfoundland and annexed significant sections of Canada. I wouldn't be surprised if Mexico was a territory
. Canada would have been powerful but they couldn't last against the US in war.
. Canada would have been powerful but they couldn't last against the US in war.Heck, if it hadn't been for the volcano, we all might be posting on this forum in ENGLISH! (isn't that absurd?)
Well if the Yellowstone eruption hadn't transpired, could it be possible that the US might eventually have displaced Britain as the world's premier superpower? Granted it seems pretty far fetched by this day and age with the British Empire being so powerful, but I think that under the right circumstances, the US could've certainly had the potential. Perhaps with another European war to weaken the Brits, the Americans would have the perfect opportunity.
Well, the first great war already breaking the British finances - they only remained a superpower as they were the less worst empire in a crumbling world.
I wonder about two things: one is the rise of japan. The eruption, and the flu and the war did a lot to weaken the western powers.. Japan probably wouldn't have been able stablish its so called cooperation sphere if competing with Russia and, just maybe, the USA (yes, the Americans projecting power that far is a bit farfetched but they did have a foothold in the Philippines before the eruption). Also, China would have been stronger without the famines and subsequent civil war.
The other thing is the Green Revolution. Without the eruption there probably wouldn't be a much funds available to increase agricultural yields.. OTOH, there would have been a lot more funds overall. Then again, the German chemical industry was, and still is, top notch so they would probably invent the required chemicals anyway
I wonder about two things: one is the rise of japan. The eruption, and the flu and the war did a lot to weaken the western powers.. Japan probably wouldn't have been able stablish its so called cooperation sphere if competing with Russia and, just maybe, the USA (yes, the Americans projecting power that far is a bit farfetched but they did have a foothold in the Philippines before the eruption). Also, China would have been stronger without the famines and subsequent civil war.
The other thing is the Green Revolution. Without the eruption there probably wouldn't be a much funds available to increase agricultural yields.. OTOH, there would have been a lot more funds overall. Then again, the German chemical industry was, and still is, top notch so they would probably invent the required chemicals anyway
I think that would all depend on how the Great War ended. If the Central Powers had won and been able to impose a Carthaginian peace then Germany would have supplanted the British Empire and the US might well have had the resources to become the world's strongest nation. If the Allies had won and Britain had gotten most of the oil rich parts of the Ottoman Empire AND managed to keep control of India I don't see how the US could have surpassed the British.
A rival, yes, but not stronger.
I reckon we would have seen the US overtkae the British Empire economically and militarily, I know a as an Imperial citizen that I shouldn't say this but I think we might have seen the rise of an American world. The Imperial wars between our Empire and Japan might have also been avoided, but I reckon that instead of us, it would be the United States fighting the Japs.
Nothing would be the same, nothing. billion people living who died in the initial explosion, the ensuing famine, and eventually the resource wars that broke out because of an entire continent being made unlivable would so radically change history. It took fucking four hundred years to even get to the point we're at now and even then America is very sparsely populated.
OOC: You guys are going a little light on this subject, the entire eruption would be near apocolyptic and likely leave a huge percentage of the population starved to death or incinerated. Thats why I whent from such a far off perspective.
OOC: You guys are going a little light on this subject, the entire eruption would be near apocolyptic and likely leave a huge percentage of the population starved to death or incinerated. Thats why I whent from such a far off perspective.
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OOC: It really depends on the scale of eruption, I think. For reference: Tambora was a VEI 7, and that gave us a year without summer. If you have a VEI 8 then I don't think we'd be having this conversation at all - our ancestors probably wouldn't have made it, and even if they did, tech development would be so handicapped we'd be stuck at 10s level for a long while.
Marc A