WI The Columbian Expedition was a complete failure?

[Yelnoc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Quite the kingdom!

Yeah, I was surprised myself when I began to research it. The one map showing De Soto's expedition that everyone goes off of is rather flawed. The data underlying that map I gathered from several academic journals I found while sifting through JSTOR.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Yelnoc

Yeah, I was surprised myself when I began to research it. The one map showing De Soto's expedition that everyone goes off of is rather flawed. The data underlying that map I gathered from several academic journals I found while sifting through JSTOR.

It really is depressing how destroyed the native cultures were so that knowing their full ability is forever lost.

[Yelnoc]

Originally Posted by Beedok

It really is depressing how destroyed the native cultures were so that knowing their full ability is forever lost.

Indeed. It's surprising just how much historians have been able to reconstruct. For example, below is the map I referred to in the last post. The Chelaque (who are inaccurately placed) were apparently given that name by the Spanish who could not pronounce Cherokee. I thought the Cherokee did not come down until much later.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Yelnoc

I thought the Cherokee did not come down until much later.

Come down from where? Weren't they always more or less where they are (historically)?

If you're thinking of the Iroquoian split, I believe the northern Iroquoians moved north sometime before 1000CE, like the Tuscarora did later.

[Hnau]

Wow that was an amazing installment Yelnoc! Great job! Looks like the Cofitacheque are on their way to becoming a formidable kingdom in South Carolina. Now, I've not been educated.... are there some actual benefits to bloodletting? I mean, I read it as if it could have just been a fluke that bloodletting helping the natives recover from measles, but would there be some positive consequence to adopting the practice?

If you want my help on any one aspect, please ask, otherwise I think you're doing great.

[Yelnoc]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Come down from where? Weren't they always more or less where they are (historically)?

If you're thinking of the Iroquoian split, I believe the northern Iroquoians moved north sometime before 1000CE, like the Tuscarora did later.

I hadn't done a scholarly look at the subject until now. But I had always heard the split with the Iroquois happened in the time period between De Soto and the English/French exploration and colonization of the area a century later.

Originally Posted by Hnau

Wow that was an amazing installment Yelnoc! Great job! Looks like the Cofitacheque are on their way to becoming a formidable kingdom in South Carolina. Now, I've not been educated.... are there some actual benefits to bloodletting? I mean, I read it as if it could have just been a fluke that bloodletting helping the natives recover from measles, but would there be some positive consequence to adopting the practice?

If you want my help on any one aspect, please ask, otherwise I think you're doing great.

Thanks Hnau. Yes, it was definitely supposed to be a fluke. I don't know of any benefits of bloodletting, though perhaps someone in the community does. I actually envisaged it as a negative European practice the Cofitachequi pick up; just a quirk of contact. But I didn't think about it too much when I wrote it.

[Hnau]

Spanish Exploration (1512 – 1515)

By spring 1512 Sebastien Cabot has returned to Spain from the New World following a successful voyage using the northerly route there. Because he has left the crew of a damaged ship at the *Chesapeake Bay to establish a fort an expedition is organized to return that fall. Cabot returns and on the way investigates the entry point to *St. Lawrence Bay and also the *Bay of Fundy, always looking for that Northwest Passage and eager to gather information for new maps. A caravel is lost following bad weather off the coast of *Maine, fortunately a majority of the crew made it to the coast alive and was picked up by the rest of Cabot’s ships. Upon returning to *Chesapeake Bay and the fort La Isabela, Sebastien Cabot is pleased to find that the colony is still intact. The Spaniards left there have spent most of the time looking for gold, yes, have resorted to stealing from the natives to supplement their food stores, yes, and have been attacked once or twice by the said natives, but fatalities were limited. La Isabela has held on. This is mainly because the region is still recovering from the deadly measles outbreak that happened just two years ago, leaving the locals with bigger problems than the Spanish.

With the arrival of Cabot, the fort receives some much needed supplies, weapons, and the sick and wounded are taken aboard to be shipped back to Spain. Other crew members are left there to maintain the colony. Cabot has also brought a number of chickens and dogs which find their home in La Isabela. Some natives are taken as slaves to be brought back to Spain. From here on out Isabelawill be visited at least once every year by Spanish ships, which will bring new enthusiastic colonists, food, weapons and take back old disgruntled colonists, tobacco and slaves. There will be little to no profit from all of this: the tobacco is sour and the slaves die quickly. But the Isabela colony is a good base to have for future expeditions. Food is tight and starvation happens every winter, but with new men and supplies coming in from Spain the Isabela colony will maintain its population at a few hundred for the next two decades. Every once and a while the Spaniards find some gold or silver trinkets and other interesting jewelry which they can export, which keeps the colony interesting enough to maintain. As for the natives, by the time they recover from the measles, the Spanish are established enough into the local power politics that there’s no way they can just overwhelm them with numbers to push them off their land.

Meanwhile an expedition of a different type is being organized by the Spanish crown. They’ve let Sebastien Cabot look for the Northwestern Passage to the East Indies, and they will continue to look for it, but what of a Southwestern Passage? The man for the job is Anton de Alaminos, a skilled navigator who has already captained a caravel in two of the expeditions to the western continent. He commands four ships and takes them from Seville on a southerly course to the New World in the spring of 1513. Alaminos first sights land in the Bahamas, and after a day or two at one of the southerly islands he taken his ships west to the shores of Cuba. The Spanish quickly discover that they are sailing against the Gulf Stream, but Alaminos is a skilled navigator, and they push west for months, making frequent stops. His men have a number of adventures with hostile and friends caciques and some even manage to track down some gold which they steal from the natives. One caravel disappears that August, it turns out the crew wanted to head back to look for more gold and instead the bad weather pushes them north to the *Bahamas, where they eventually crash the ship into a reef. In October the remaining three ships under Alaminos reach *Cape San Antonio, and they realize that *Cuba is most definitely an island. Another great ocean lies to the west, and it is believed that Asia is just beyond it. One ship captain Sebastian de Ocampo, wants to continue west, claiming that the weather is improving, however, Alaminos is worried about food and repairs and decides to turn back. They head south to circumnavigate *Cuba, and briefly take harbor at *Isla de la Juventud where they find water and trade for parrots. They christen the island Isla de Cotorras, “Island of Parrots”. One morning Alaminos wakes up and a caravel is gone. Sebastian de Ocampo has taken it with a small crew and sets out west to make a discovery that will guarantee fame and fortune back in Spain.

It doesn’t take long for Ocampo and his men to sight land. They’ve come to the northern tip of the *Yucatan Peninsula. They are running low on water and food, so they sail close to the shoreline and see numerous settlements and even a pyramid. The locals approach on canoes and seem very friendly. Gifts of fruit and meat are given to the Spanish. From what the Spanish are able to gather, the native Mayans want them to meet their king. Sebastian de Ocampo takes his men towards land and is delighted when a procession guides him into the center of a thriving port town. They see gold, silver, plentiful food and women, everything that they’ve dreamed could exist in the New World. Ocampo and his men haven’t marched for more than five minutes before they are ambushed. A local Mayan chieftain has decided to take no chances with these strange visitors. The Spaniards are imprisoned and over the next few months all but two are sacrificed. The caravel is accidentally beached by the only man to make it back.

As for Alaminos, the southern coast of *Cuba is certainly easier to navigate. The coastline is mapped. The Spanish spend a few nights at *Guantanamo Bay where they erect a giant cross and name the island Isla Fernandina. On the return voyage another ship is wrecked at *Mayaguana island, the survivors are taken aboard the sole remaining caravel. Heading northeast, during a storm it seems that Anton de Alaminos has finally met his match, but he manages to pull his ship through it. *Bermuda is sighted, but they don’t decide to investigate. Alaminos and his crew return to Spain in spring 1514, more than a year after they left.

1514 is also the year that Sebastien Cabot takes two ships to investigate the sea beyond Newfoundland. He explores and maps the Gulf of St. Lawrence before returning home.

In 1515 Alaminos leads another expedition to explore the *Florida peninsula. His two ships explore the *Florida Keys and briefly the western coast of Florida until returning to the Atlantic on a northward route towards Isabela. Instructed to establish a Spanish presence on this land, he settles the *St. Augustine area. A fort is built and men are left behind to manage it. The *Sea Islands are charted, and Anton de Alaminos even investigates the coastline of the *Carolinas where almost a decade ago several Spaniards were marooned. What happened there before Alaminos returned to Spain is another story...

Portuguese Exploration (1513 – 1516)

After the discovery of the *Caribbean islands by Cristovao Jacques in 1513, there’s certainly interest to explore more, however the Portuguese delay the next expedition for two years. In 1515 Jacques sets out once again to Occidentia. The crown is interested in the extent of the continent, whether their brasileiro colonies can be used to claim the entirety of Occidentia or if the Spanish are exploring completely new territory. Cristovao Jacques sails the *Venezuelan coastline and maps the many islands there. Pearl oysters are found at *Cubagua and *Margarita, and the crew spends days harvesting as many as they can. Jacques later turns north and finds *Hispaniola once more. The cacique they meet on the southern shore (near *Santo Domingo) seems so friendly that Jacques decides to establish a fort nearby, leaving some men to cultivate an alliance with the natives and look for gold. He names the settlement Olinda. Jacques turns east to explore more of the shoreline of Puerto Rico and names the island “Borinquen” based on a dialogue with the natives. The northern coastline of *Hispaniola is mapped, and they also investigate the eastern tip of *Cuba until the Portuguese turn back towards home, arriving in the early summer of 1516.

[Hnau]

More fun exploration maps.

Blue is the 1512 Sebastien Cabot voyage
Red is the 1513 Anton de Alaminos expedition
Dark red is the tragic 1514 Sebastian de Ocampo voyage
Purple is the 1514 Sebastien Cabot expedition
Orange is the 1515 Anton de Alaminos expedition
Green is the 1515 Cristovao Jacques expedition

As of 1516 there is the Spanish Isabela colony at *Chesapeake Bay, the Spanish Florida colony near *St. Augustine, the Portuguese Olinda colony near *Santo Domingo, and the Portuguese factories in Brazil.

[Hnau]

Oh, Yelnoc, do what you will with Anton de Alaminos exploring the Cofitachequi region in 1515. If you want there to be even more time before Spanish contact Balboa and the others, you don't have to do anything with it.

[Yelnoc]

Originally Posted by Hnau

Oh, Yelnoc, do what you will with Anton de Alaminos exploring the Cofitachequi region in 1515. If you want there to be even more time before Spanish contact Balboa and the others, you don't have to do anything with it.

The timeline works. I'll be working on my next piece, though I admit my writing is highly erratic. No further thoughts (for now, I'll be back), but good update.

[Beedok]

The Mayans may have made a rather smart move.

[Hnau]

Oh, by the way, with the Mayans, someone can take that area if they want and explore butterflies from Ocampo's voyage to the peninsula. Historically the Mayans took in Gonzalo Guerrero and Geronimo de Aguilar and nine other Spaniards in 1511 who were shipwrecked there. GG and GA were the only ones to survive. One became a warlord, the other remained little more than a slave. Though the Mayans had encountered a Spanish ship and had prisoners who had knowledge of technologies the Mayans were unfamiliar with, their society didn't change at all. So it might not be plausible to suggest that because of Ocampo the Mayans will begin reverse-engineering the caravel and figuring out how to make iron from 1514 on. But, if you guys want, let's throw a disease at Mesoamerica. One of the Spaniards could transmit it. We did say that we wanted Old World diseases hitting New World civilizations as fast as possible so that they'll have more time to recuperate. Anyone want to run with that idea? My suggestion: it's either smallpox or typhus.

[Beedok]

Lets go for typhus as it's less popular.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Hnau

it's either smallpox or typhus.

Typhus is more a disease of war where people concentrate and sanitation is poor. Small pox is more able to do rural areas. So if you want just urban areas hit, go with typhus. If urban and rural, go with smallpox.

[Hnau]

Well, in that case, let's go with smallpox so we can get it to spread to the Incan Empire as well.

BTW, should we make it canon that Martin Luther goes to Rome in 1510 and contracts syphilis there? Agreed? I want to explore butterflies from that.

[Beedok]

To try to revive interest her is a nearly finished map of pre-Columbian North America.

[Zuvarq]

Originally Posted by Yelnoc

The Chelaque (who are inaccurately placed) were apparently given that name by the Spanish who could not pronounce Cherokee. I thought the Cherokee did not come down until much later.

Cherokee is just as much of a mispronunciation as Chelaqui. The Cherokee word for Cherokee is Tsalagi.

[Yelnoc]

Cool map, Beedok. Can we have a key for it?

Originally Posted by Zuvarq

Cherokee is just as much of a mispronunciation as Chelaqui. The Cherokee word for Cherokee is Tsalagi.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that . You can see how Chelaqui might have come from Tsalagi, though.

And I haven't done any work on the promised update . It's been a busy week. Does anybody other than Hnau and myself have interest in contributing? I would really like to see the butterflies in Europe explored. Hnau's idea to kill off Martin Luther is a particularly interesting one. And of syphilis, no less. I wonder how many people I would manage to offend by writing a sex scene involving Martin Luther and a Roman prostitute?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Yelnoc

Cool map, Beedok. Can we have a key for it?

It is 90% NUCS, I can post a link to the original map if you would like.

[Hnau]

Originally Posted by Yelnoc

And of syphilis, no less. I wonder how many people I would manage to offend by writing a sex scene involving Martin Luther and a Roman prostitute?

If I'm not mistaken from my reading of 1491, when syphilis hit the virgin fields of Europe the first time it was so infectious it could spread by touch alone, though having Martin Luther actually transgressing with a prostitute... it would be out of character for him I think but hey stuff happens.