Make Canada an extremely powerful nation.

Basically, with a POD after 1900, can you make Canada a great power, rivaling or even surpassing the U.S., the British Empire, or other great powers? The economy, population, and military of Canada should be significantly "better" than OTL (pretty obvious this scenario).

After the Second World War (if there is one) or something along the lines of it, I'd want to see the U.S., the U.S.S.R., and Canada to be regarded as the "superpowers" of the world.

I don't care what you change, just make it plausible and make it contribute to Canada becoming a great power.

(Points for whoever can make Canada carve out its own power bloc, like the Warsaw Pact or NATO. More points to whoever can make Canada have their own very good designs in a military aspects, like the Avro Arrow, and actually use them/sell them to other nations.)
 
Basically, with a POD after 1900, can you make Canada a great power, rivaling or even surpassing the U.S., the British Empire, or other great powers? The economy, population, and military of Canada should be significantly "better" than OTL (pretty obvious this scenario).

After the Second World War (if there is one) or something along the lines of it, I'd want to see the U.S., the U.S.S.R., and Canada to be regarded as the "superpowers" of the world.

I don't care what you change, just make it plausible and make it contribute to Canada becoming a great power.

(Points for whoever can make Canada carve out its own power bloc, like the Warsaw Pact or NATO. More points to whoever can make Canada have their own very good designs in a military aspects, like the Avro Arrow, and actually use them/sell them to other nations.)
Basically, no, it's impossible. Canada has to little usable land area to support the kind of population you'd need.

Edit: and even that's not going to be as powerful as the US until the 20th century. Not sure when, haven't got there yet.
Trying to fit even Germany's population into Canada would be tough, really tough.

Making Canada a lot more powerful? Sure, that's do able. There are various Canadawanks on the board. With a pod post 1900, the best is likely
Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power (
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TheMann

But that's nowhere near as powerful as the US. More like OTL's Britain, and not even that.

To get a MAJOR power, you have to start with the war of 1812, to get more land, I'm afraid. Might I suggest my TL (in my sig).
 
Basically, no, it's impossible. Canada has to little usable land area to support the kind of population you'd need.

Edit: and even that's not going to be as powerful as the US until the 20th century. Not sure when, haven't got there yet.
Trying to fit even Germany's population into Canada would be tough, really tough.

Making Canada a lot more powerful? Sure, that's do able. There are various Canadawanks on the board. With a pod post 1900, the best is likely
Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power (
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TheMann

But that's nowhere near as powerful as the US. More like OTL's Britain, and not even that.

To get a MAJOR power, you have to start with the war of 1812, to get more land, I'm afraid. Might I suggest my TL (in my sig).

Your TL is one of my favourites. Guess I'll stick to that for now.
 
Well, if the decision to not gut our military after WWII, then we would have the 4th largest navy behind the big three. Not to mention that our military was sustainable if used as a workforce, and things like that.
 
Basically, no, it's impossible. Canada has to little usable land area to support the kind of population you'd need.

Edit: and even that's not going to be as powerful as the US until the 20th century. Not sure when, haven't got there yet.
Trying to fit even Germany's population into Canada would be tough, really tough.

Making Canada a lot more powerful? Sure, that's do able. There are various Canadawanks on the board. With a pod post 1900, the best is likely
Canadian Power: The Canadian Forces as a Major Power (
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TheMann

But that's nowhere near as powerful as the US. More like OTL's Britain, and not even that.

To get a MAJOR power, you have to start with the war of 1812, to get more land, I'm afraid. Might I suggest my TL (in my sig).

The Canadian population saw some pretty impressive growth (34% from 1901-1911) from the 1900-1914 period, if you can butterfly away World War 1 that growth trend might continue longer. Post 1900 superpower is out of the question though. I think 60,000,000 Canadians is a stretch, but if you monkey with the numbers and get lucky, not impossible.
 
Which would, as the guy said, make it about as populous as the UK.

Hm. British Imperial Federalism more successful, so we have a British Commonwealth with real muscle? Limited nuclear war messes up the UK bad, lotsa refugees to Canada, combined with the aformentioned greater immigration, get a near-superpower Commonwealth led by Canada?

Bruce
 
I think you have to define what you mean by superpower. For example, Canada is regarded as a world leader in space-based robotics and produces a sizeable fraction of the world's medical isotopes. At the end of the Second World War, Canada had the third largest navy in the world, while the Canadian Army cam to been as the elite forces of the allied war effort in two world wars, to the point where the Germans in World War I called the Canadian Corp stormtroopers and said that they "looked like children but fought like mad bastards." Some people have even gone so far as to say that Canada has the best trained army in the world. So, while it might impossible for Canada to rival the United States in population, an alternate uber Canada that punches far enough above its weight class to be regarded as a superpower, should not be that difficult to engineer.
 
I think you have to define what you mean by superpower. For example, Canada is regarded as a world leader in space-based robotics and produces a sizeable fraction of the world's medical isotopes. At the end of the Second World War, Canada had the third largest navy in the world, while the Canadian Army cam to been as the elite forces of the allied war effort in two world wars, to the point where the Germans in World War I called the Canadian Corp stormtroopers and said that they "looked like children but fought like mad bastards." Some people have even gone so far as to say that Canada has the best trained army in the world. So, while it might impossible for Canada to rival the United States in population, an alternate uber Canada that punches far enough above its weight class to be regarded as a superpower, should not be that difficult to engineer.

What I mean is that Canada has to have somewhat of a large population, a large, well-trained military, a strong economy not bound to a single nation (meaning not bound to the American one in terms of trade), very technologically and/or scientifically regarded (like it is now), and some other things that are hard to define. That is what I'd want a "superpower" Canada to be like.
 
I think you have to define what you mean by superpower. For example, Canada is regarded as a world leader in space-based robotics and produces a sizeable fraction of the world's medical isotopes. At the end of the Second World War, Canada had the third largest navy in the world, while the Canadian Army cam to been as the elite forces of the allied war effort in two world wars, to the point where the Germans in World War I called the Canadian Corp stormtroopers and said that they "looked like children but fought like mad bastards." Some people have even gone so far as to say that Canada has the best trained army in the world. So, while it might impossible for Canada to rival the United States in population, an alternate uber Canada that punches far enough above its weight class to be regarded as a superpower, should not be that difficult to engineer.

Well, why don't you do so? I will be impressed - frankly, any old first-world country is probably a leader in _some_ field of technology and having an "elite" army of about 36,000 and $2.50 will get you a drinkable cup of coffee. And it's easy to have the third largest fleet when, oh, the French, Italian and Japanese fleets have been _sunk_. Some comparative numbers please!

Bruce
 
PS - Canada could probably punch internationally above its current weight, but enough to be considered a superpower? My suspension of disbelief makes a loud hissing noise and fly about the room, rapidly shrinking.

Bruce
 
I think you have to define what you mean by superpower. For example, Canada is regarded as a world leader in space-based robotics and produces a sizeable fraction of the world's medical isotopes. At the end of the Second World War, Canada had the third largest navy in the world, while the Canadian Army cam to been as the elite forces of the allied war effort in two world wars, to the point where the Germans in World War I called the Canadian Corp stormtroopers and said that they "looked like children but fought like mad bastards." Some people have even gone so far as to say that Canada has the best trained army in the world. So, while it might impossible for Canada to rival the United States in population, an alternate uber Canada that punches far enough above its weight class to be regarded as a superpower, should not be that difficult to engineer.

Today pound for pound we do, but the problem is that we don't have a large enough army. We had the 4th largest navy I recall, because didn't the USSR have a large navy too? Then again it sounds more realistic for us to have a larger navy due to the USSR pulling heavier weight on the groundwar.

Make Canada as populous as UK. Have the UK decide after the American Revolution that they need to beef up colonial immigration with loyal British people, and start offering land grants and such. This way, we can have border disputes settled in our favour against the states. Such as the Lake Michigan bottom tip being where our border starts in the west, instead of way up by Superior. This way, by 1812, we might have a similar population to the US who had 3-7 million by that time:confused::confused::confused:

After that we could see us gaining Alaska, and gaining Oregon in our favour. Result, by 1900 we might have a similar population and industrial capacity to the United States. This way Britain might stay out of WW1, being more focused on their colonies, and knowing that Germany could never surpass them due to the might of the British Empire. Voila, possible superpower Canada.
 
PS - Canada could probably punch internationally above its current weight, but enough to be considered a superpower? My suspension of disbelief makes a loud hissing noise and fly about the room, rapidly shrinking.

Bruce

No way that would happen right now. We are pretty strong, but no way are we a super-power. Hell we don't even have the population of a Great Power (I think it is at least 50 million). As well the only way we are that strong right now is the fact we have the 800 pound gorilla to the south.

Albeit, compared to the other nations of the world. When it comes to total war, we are far more willing to militarize as much of our population as possible, even though we are not being invaded. 730,000 people served in the Army alone in WW2 (air force 260,000,navy 115,000) and we only took 45,000 dead and 54,000 total wounded. By the end of 1944, Canadian shipyards had launched naval ships, such as destroyers, frigates, corvettes, and some 345 merchant vessels. But perhaps no Canadian contribution to the Allied war effort was so vital as that made by the metals industries: half of Allied aluminium and ninety percent of Allied nickel was supplied by Canadian sources during the war. At one point on the West Coast, we were producing one escort carrier a week for the allies. The Navy grew from only a few ships in 1939 to over 400 ships, including three aircraft carriers and two cruisers. This maritime effort helped keep the shipping lanes open across the Atlantic throughout the war.

During the war, the automobile industry was put to good use, building all manner of war material, and most particularly wheeled vehicles, of which Canada became the second largest (next to the United States) producer during the war. Canada's output of nearly 800,000 trucks, for instance, exceeded the combined total truck production of Germany, Italy, and Japan, comprising 20% of the combined total production of the US, UK, and Canada.[13]:167 Rivals Ford and General Motors of Canada pooled their engineering design teams to produce a standardized vehicle amenable to mass production, the Canadian Military Pattern (CMP) truck, which served throughout the British Commonwealth. Approximately half of the British Army's transport requirements were supplied from Canadian manufacturers. The British Official History argues that the production of soft-skinned trucks, including the CMP truck class, was Canada's most important contribution to Allied victory.

While Canadians served at sea, in the air, and in small numbers attached to Allied formations and independently, the invasion of Sicily was the first full scale combat engagement by full Canadian divisions since World War I. Canadian soldiers went ashore in 1943 in the Allied invasions of Sicily and mainland Italy, then fought through the long Italian Campaign. During the course of the Italian Campaign, over 25,000 Canadian soldiers became casualties of war.
The 1st Canadian Division and the 1st Canadian Tank Brigade took part in the Allied invasion of Sicily in Operation Husky, 10 July 1943 and also the Allied invasion of mainland Italy on September 3, 1943. Canadian participation in the Sicily and Italy campaigns were made possible after the government decided to break up the First Canadian Army, sitting idle in Britain. Public pressure for Canadian troops to begin fighting forced a move before the awaited invasion of northwest Europe.[39] Troops fought on through the long and difficult Italian campaign until redeployed to North-West Europe in February–March 1945 during Operation Goldflake. By this time the Canadian contribution to the Italian theatre had grown to include I Canadian Corps headquarters, the 1st Division, 5th Canadian (Armoured) Division and an independent armoured brigade. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded to Canadian Army troops in Italy; Captain Paul Triquet of the Royal 22e Régiment, Private Smokey Smith of The Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, and Major John Mahoney of The Westminster Regiment (Motor). Notable battles in Italy included The Moro River Campaign, the Battle of Ortona and the battles to break the Hitler Line.



On June 6, 1944, the 3rd Canadian Division landed on Juno Beach in the Battle of Normandy and sustained 50% casualties in their first hour of attack. By the end of D-Day, the Canadians had penetrated deeper into France than either the British or the American troops at their landing sites, overcoming stronger resistance than any of the other beachheads except Omaha Beach. In the first month of the Normandy campaign, Canadian, British and Polish troops were opposed by some of the strongest and best trained German troops in the theatre, including the 1st SS Division, the 12th SS Division and the Panzer-Lehr-Division. Several costly operations were mounted by the Canadians to fight a path to the pivotal city of Caen and then south towards Falaise, part of the Allied attempt to liberate Paris. Canadian troops played a heavy role in the liberation of Paris. Some feel[who?] that Canadian inexperience during the battle to close the Falaise Gap allowed German forces to escape destruction, but by the time the First Canadian Army linked up with U.S. forces, the destruction of the German Army in Normandy was nearly complete. Three Victoria Crosses were earned by Canadians in Northwest Europe; Major David Currie of the South Alberta Regiment won the Victoria Cross for his actions at Saint-Lambert-sur-Dive, Captain Frederick Tilston of the Essex Scottish and Sergeant Aubrey Cosens of the Queen's Own Rifles of Canada were rewarded for their service in the Rhineland fighting in 1945, the latter posthumously.


We had a population of 11.5 million. If the right situation is created then we could possibly become one of two super-powers in the Western Hemisphere.
 
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i think this requires a POD before 1900, maybe Canada gets Oregon? that would develop a large population and large ports on the pacific.

This could probably bump their population to above Great Britain, if done right maybe even a Russia sized country by the 1960 (present day russian population.) Then they need to invest in quality (shouldn't be hard since their owners have been doing for centuries) over quantity when it comes to armed forces.

Conscription could also help with that.

That is about it, with around 100 million people it could have a VERY large economy, with a highly professional army they could fight even the US (tho of course both would probably want to remain allies, especially after the atom bomb is invented)
 
Make sure Justin Bieber was never born. :D

Seriously though, superpower is probably not gonna happen without going pre-1900. Moderately powerful (as in, top-tier middle power or even junior great power), OTOH, might happen.

Here's my suggestion: find a way to put the Avro Arrow into active service, which would save Canada's aerospace industry. I'm not sure if the Arrow can compete with the F-4 Phantom, but a lot of countries would probably pick it over the Phantom if you can make it cheaper. Also, without the post-Arrow brain drain to NASA the Canadians may get to participate in the space program, as well as a Bombardier-made commercial airliner.

From there, a different CF Unification in '68, where you get a unified command structure but the names (RCN, RCAF, CA) stayed. Find a replacement for the Bonaventure when she retire.

Marc A
 
America stays out of war with Mexico in the 19th century...

...and England snags Texas.

(afaik it wanted to.)

Subsequent conflict with Mexico leads to Canada stretching down to Baja and the Gulf of Mexico.


With a distractingly powerful neighbor to the north and west, and, less new land to argue about which parts become pro-slave and anti-slave, the American Civil War might be canceled.
 
If you could get Canada and Canadians to somehow maintain having the world's third largest navy and fourth largest air force, it might be possible to have us be a major power/great power, but not a superpower. You would also have to give Canada a reason to maintain such a large force, which will likely mean mandatory military service for a few years like several European nations have. Such uses of a large force would mean that you would need to give Canada British territories in the Caribbean, the Atlantic, and the Americas.

Such actions and POD's could turn Canada into a sort of "British Empire successor", but it still wouldn't be super powerful. It could potentially have its own influence in terms of a large chunk of the British Commonwealth, but it would hardly be a power bloc.
 
You could have a super power Canada, if after the treaty of Paris 1776, the british change their immigration policy, and allow a massive influx of loyalists to Canada, allowing our population to remain on par with the US, and by 1812 be larger than them by getting Ruperts Land. Then resolving the war in our favour with the border starting at the bottom of Lake Michigan, and us getting the Oregon territory. Industrialization proceeds apace, and allows us to maintain US levels of industrial power by mid-late 19th century. Britain won't fear Germany as Canada is powerful enough to stop any economic overtake.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
The Canadian population saw some pretty impressive growth (34% from 1901-1911) from the 1900-1914 period, if you can butterfly away World War 1 that growth trend might continue longer. Post 1900 superpower is out of the question though. I think 60,000,000 Canadians is a stretch, but if you monkey with the numbers and get lucky, not impossible.

Would, not could. Only the massive deaths stopped the European outflow, and without WW1, there are hundreds of million of additional European world wide.
 
You could have the Oregon Dispute settled in Britain's favor as much as was possible. I'm not sure the POD required for that, but if Britain gets what it wanted in the Pacific Northwest, then all the territory from the Oregon-California border goes to Canada when Canada (or a country like Canada) becomes independent.

If the US is even weaker, than the British could seize San Francisco Bay and the territory around there. All told, the land in the West could add twenty million to Canada's population. However, it would be a very different country than the Canada we know and love today. With the West-East populations on greater parity, you might see a growing divide between the two halves.

Cheers,
Ganesha
 
How to make Canada a super power nation …. An extremely powerful super power nation to boot… This would indeed be a challenge, but it could possibly have taken place with the right set of variables.

But first and foremost a change in the basic philosophy of how the nation was set up and is still operated to this day.

A way must be found to break the dominance of upper and lower Canada early. From the beginning and up until present time the west of Canada has been used as resource center to build up Ontario and Quebec with no real regard for the betterment of the west.

That has been seen in such things as the eastern based Liberal Governments under Trudeau in particular with such things as The National Energy Program (Pogrom??) , The stripping of the CF-18 contract from Bristol Aerospace in Winnipeg ( Who not only had the lowest bid, but already had the required rights in place) in favour of contractors in Montreal, The loss of Air Canada’s maintenance facility in Winnipeg, which was moved to Montreal strictly for political reasons .

Ontario and Quebec never miss an opportunity to get their greedy little fingers on anything possible out of the west. It can be seen in federal resource royalties in the oil patch when comparing the royalties in the west to the ‘special bargains’ for their pals on the east coast.

We in the west can see it further in political representation in places like the senate where Quebec and Ontario are guaranteed a disproportional amount of seats. We see it in our federal elected representation as well where Quebec gets more seats due to the fact that their ridings are specifically set up to have less population per seat to give them extra power in the House.

You can see it in such eastern industries as Bombardier which has had countless hundreds of millions of dollars poured into it over the years from federal coffers at the expense of many other parts of the country.

The list goes on and on, but probably the easiest and most obvious symbol of the stifling domination of Canada by the power center in Ontario and Quebec is to look at what’s on the flag.
The Maple Leaf …. It is a representation of the Sugar Maple Leaf , and it is only occurs naturally from southern Ontario east in this nation, and it is a classic example of Ontario and Quebec having their way.
I’ll take the old Red Ensign over ‘Pierson’s Rag’ any day.

So you want to make Canada a Super Power, eh? Start by making it a nation of equals. Hell you don’t even have to worry about when to set the POD, you could start it now!

The power base set up in Ontario and Quebec has always been the biggest impediment to the growth of the nation. Everything must be concentrated there at the expense of the rest of the country. From manufacturing to marketing boards to federal government jobs, the biggest percentages are concentrated there.

The rules then are the same as the rules now.... you want the country to grow? It's easy, make sure that all areas of the country get the same chances for growth and representation, rather than select provinces getting to skim the cream and let the rest of the country do without.

We haven't seen it yet and I doubt we ever will.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I have seen way to much, and not just in some of the Canada Wanks here, but in the real world as well, where the only part of Canada that is of any importance and entitled to any gain is concentrated in the Ontario and Quebec.

Oh yeah, I hear there's another Trudeau in the making ....
where is Mel Hurtig and the Western Canada Concept when you really need him???
 
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