Plausibility Check: Israeli Panther tanks?

During their initial years, much of Israel's military hardware came from former Axis countries, including several Me-109 variants anf Kar98K rifles.

IOTL, France operated 50 Panthers, and Bulgaria other 15, being retired a few years later.

Could these tanks end up serving in Israel, continuing the Axis weapons trend?

How would Israel's early history change with these tanks? Would they refit and modernize them, like they did with the Sherman? How would such tank look?
 
Well unlike the Sherman, I imagine they'd be lacking in replacement parts and what not, and probably in small numbers. Post 1948 I cant see them playing a great part - then again, I'm no military buff, just a guess.

I know the Egyptians used Axis tanks as dug-in artillery to avoid such demands on parts and due to more numerous and modern weaponry.
 

Deleted member 1487

During their initial years, much of Israel's military hardware came from former Axis countries, including several Me-109 variants anf Kar98K rifles.

IOTL, France operated 50 Panthers, and Bulgaria other 15, being retired a few years later.

Could these tanks end up serving in Israel, continuing the Axis weapons trend?

How would Israel's early history change with these tanks? Would they refit and modernize them, like they did with the Sherman? How would such tank look?

I thought there were a few there OTL?
Edit:
no, apparently they thought about building a modified version themselves, but it was too hard to manufacture, so dropped the plan. Apparently they did use the Panther guns on 'super' Shermans they modified themselves.

It would not be in Israel's interest to use the Panther, because the engines were prone to breaking down and they needed fast, reliable tanks for aggressive warfare. The Panther was really a defensive tank, because it was so heavy and not suitable for the 'blitz' type offensives that Israel and Germany were famous for. So they did the smart thing and married the heavy gun of the Panther to the reliable, maneuverable Sherman.
 
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Well unlike the Sherman, I imagine they'd be lacking in replacement parts and what not, and probably in small numbers. Post 1948 I cant see them playing a great part - then again, I'm no military buff, just a guess.

I know the Egyptians used Axis tanks as dug-in artillery to avoid such demands on parts and due to more numerous and modern weaponry.

Syria did operate a handful of Pzkpfw IVs against Israel though, at least one of which is on display at the IDF's tank museum.
 
During their initial years, much of Israel's military hardware came from former Axis countries, including several Me-109 variants anf Kar98K rifles.

IOTL, France operated 50 Panthers, and Bulgaria other 15, being retired a few years later.

Could these tanks end up serving in Israel, continuing the Axis weapons trend?

How would Israel's early history change with these tanks? Would they refit and modernize them, like they did with the Sherman? How would such tank look?

In 1947-9, Israel will take any weapons it can find, much of which is Axis surplus. Czechoslovakia was Israel's main arms supplier, so maybe if they get ahold of some Panthers.
 
I rather doubt it. German super-tanks were rather too poorly-designed for even the Israelis to find them of much use. Fuel-guzzling machines that break down if a cow farts next to them don't do much against Arab armies with a much greater manpower potential or to simplify Israel's logistical issues. Die Wunderwaffen were not very good in WWII, and in any other war....pfft.
 

Deleted member 6086

I rather doubt it. German super-tanks were rather too poorly-designed for even the Israelis to find them of much use. Fuel-guzzling machines that break down if a cow farts next to them don't do much against Arab armies with a much greater manpower potential or to simplify Israel's logistical issues. Die Wunderwaffen were not very good in WWII, and in any other war....pfft.

I thought they'd pretty much fixed the transmission by the end of the war. Technically, it's superior to the Sherman. Maybe they can use them in small numbers to support them.
 
It can even be used as a psychological weapon. With a few exceptions like the Arab Legion, Arab armies in 1948 were poorly equipped. There was a prevalent suspicion that the Israelis had some kind of wunderwaffen, perhaps even an atomic weapon. So even the appearance of such a tank may make a difference on the battlefield.

But from the Israeli perspective, its not that they want a Panther because its going to revolutionize warfare. They're in the position of beggars who can't be choosers. In terms of advanced hardware, they'll take what they can get.
 
I thought they'd pretty much fixed the transmission by the end of the war. Technically, it's superior to the Sherman. Maybe they can use them in small numbers to support them.

And the T-34 and I-S Heavy Tanks were superior to the Panthers. The Israelis buy Panthers, the Arabs start buying more Eastern Bloc weaponry for themselves as counters.
 
With what money? I was under the impression that the various Arab states already were on a war footing when they attacked Israel.

Presumably however they did it during the two of the three cease-fires both sides armed themselves IOTL. The Arab *states* proper were not entirely on a war footing in 1948, and their whole concept of what to do then was flawed. Israel having Panthers only changes incidental details, their victory in 1948-9 was pretty much an inevitability regardless of what happened.
 
In 1947-9, Israel will take any weapons it can find, much of which is Axis surplus. Czechoslovakia was Israel's main arms supplier, so maybe if they get ahold of some Panthers.
Czechoslovak Army had after war 65 Panthers in the depots. They needed overhauling.
In 1949 40 Panthers in best condition were supposed to be picked and sent to factories CKS and Skoda. Finaly 39 G and later 5 others were send. With the end of 1949 works on 22 started. 5 were done and 17 were in different stages of work. Because factories were to busy, 17 tanks were supposed to be finished in 1950 and another 22 in 1951/52.
In 1952 production of T-34/85 in Slovakia started so only 32 Panthers were refurbished. Later they served without turrets as recovery vehicles till 1959. But till 70-ties some of them served in Czechoslovak railway company CSD as recovery vehicle. In 1955 few of them "played" in Czechoslovak war movie "Tank brigade".
So there was possibility for Israel to get something from Czechoslovakia. :)
 
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