AHC: A Jewish Homeland in Europe

Khazaria was this OTL, although how much of the population converted is uncertain.
I was thinking more Ethnic Jews then converts. And I was actually thinking Central Europe. I have a story where there are these Jewish dukes in Central Germany.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
A lot of cities in Galacia, Eastern Poland (1919-1939 borders), and Belarus had Jewish pluralities. A POD that has the Zionist movement looking for a homeland in Europe helps a lot.

First: No WW1. Franz Ferdinand implements the United States of Greater Austria, the jews get a small area of Austria as a Jewish Homeland.

Second: Central Powers win WW1, Germany decides a Jewish Client State would help weaken Poland, and creates a Jewish Homeland near Brest-Litovsk.

Third: Jewish SSR - Stalin creates a Jewish SSR as a PR stunt. This would not be much more than city-state somewhere.

There was a natural location of a Jewish Nation in Tsarist Russia. The only think lacking was a will by senior leaders to create one. Change a leader before WW2, and there could easily be one.
 
LTTW has a Jewish Crimea. Well, its under Russian domination as of the current state of the TL, but I have a feeling an independent Jewish Crimea *Israel is on the horizion.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Third: Jewish SSR - Stalin creates a Jewish SSR as a PR stunt. This would not be much more than city-state somewhere

Pinsk have Jewish majority and Pripyat Marshes have low population. it could be location for JewishSSR.

of course, if butterfly didn't stop chernobyl disaster occur later, Jews have to flee again.
 
Salonika during the Ottoman era? Maybe Russian and other eastern European Jews flee to Macedonia in the eighteenth and nineteenth century due to discrimination, pogroms, etc. and end up settling down in the Macedonian countryside due to invitation from Ottoman authorities who want to decrease the number of hostile Christians where they acclimate quite well. Fast forward to when the Ottoman Empire declines and falls, the Jews of Macedonia believe that they can not depend on protection from the hungry Balkan states and decide to declare complete independence from the Turks as the Republic of Greater Salonika in the early 1900s.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
I have been reading source documents for WW1, the link is from a New York Times Quarterly publication from early 1915, for articles from 1914. Page 361 could be interpreted as the Tsar promising the Jews a state. A few pages earlier in the magazine, the Tsar promises Poland to be state under the Tsar.

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=50FIAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA361

If the link does not work for you, go to google ebooks, google current history, 1914.

For a pre-1900 POD, maybe an earlier Tsar sees a 4 part crown easier to administer than there current situation. (Finland, Russia, Poland, Jewish). This might tie into Pan-Slavic ideal, and obtaining extra support with the Western Slavs and Southern Slavs. For example, maybe to entice Bulgaria to join to a five part crown, the other 4 part crown is create. I am not highly familiar with Pan-Slavic movement, but if early in WW1, the idea of a Jewish and Polish state was floated, it was likely discussed in the ruling classes pre-war.
 
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Wolfpaw

Banned
There was serious consideration of giving the Jews the Crimea post-War. Molotov's support for it came back to bite him in the ass as Stalin's own anti-Semitism increased. Other than that I could see East Prussia being turned into a Jewish Heymshtat.

Jews likely won't get their own country in a CP-Victory Mitteleuropa. That's way too philo-Semitic for either the Kaiser or the Junkertum.

Jews will likely be a group favored by the German authorities in the East; "Do our gruntwork and we make sure there're no more pogroms, see?"

The fact that Yiddish and German are so similar also helps.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
I have been reading source documents for WW1, the link is from a New York Times Quarterly publication from early 1915, for articles from 1914. Page 361 could be interpreted as the Tsar promising the Jews a state. A few pages earlier in the magazine, the Tsar promises Poland to be state under the Tsar.

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=50FIAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA361

If the link does not work for you, go to google ebooks, google current history, 1914.

For a pre-1900 POD, maybe an earlier Tsar sees a 4 part crown easier to administer than there current situation. (Finland, Russia, Poland, Jewish). This might tie into Pan-Slavic ideal, and obtaining extra support with the Western Slavs and Southern Slavs. For example, maybe to entice Bulgaria to join to a five part crown, the other 4 part crown is create. I am not highly familiar with Pan-Slavic movement, but if early in WW1, the idea of a Jewish and Polish state was floated, it was likely discussed in the ruling classes pre-war.
All that source has is a tiny bit about rumors of Jews being granted rights, and then later on an official of the Imperial Russian government denying that any such measure has been taken. The fact that the Tsar paid lip-service to Polish nationalism during the war and gave vague promises of Polish autonomy (just like other vague promises Nicky gave about constitutions and dumy) does not prove much.

Late Imperial Russia's track record--and Nicholas II's personal track record--are exceedingly anti-Semitic. Pogroms were not uncommon into the final days of the Romanovs' ogrish regime, and were still being carried out by servants of the Most Holy Tsar even after Nicky'd met justice in a Yekaterinburg basement.
 
Should this even be in Pre-1900? I mean any POD and butterflies that are going to result in a Jewish state in Europe prior to the 20th century is going to completely butterfly away WWI & II, which seems to be what everyone ITT is discussing..
 

MSZ

Banned
A jewish Pufferstaat could be formed in Central East Europe either next to or in place of other nation states after CP victory in the east, and being allowed to remain in existence after the war. Wikipedia has an article on the League_of_East_European States.
 
Suppose that instead of Nicolas II, a more moderate, less autocratic man becomes Tsar and Autocrat of all Russias - the PoD for this would likely be before 1900, given that Nicolas II was born in 1868, and became Tsar in 1894. This hypothetical Tsar writes a constitution which gives some power to the common people (not a lot, but its a step), and grants some internal autonomy to a few regions, including Poland, and a Jewish homeland made from mostly Polish territory.

The small concessions may be enough to prevent a Communist revolution in Russia proper, and probably client states like Poland. It could also secure the loyalty of the Jews, ant least as long as it doesn't look like a trap. Mind you, his successor would have to refrain from tearing up the constitution.

In there anyone in the OTL Russian Line of Succession who was more moderate?
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Should this even be in Pre-1900? I mean any POD and butterflies that are going to result in a Jewish state in Europe prior to the 20th century is going to completely butterfly away WWI & II, which seems to be what everyone ITT is discussing..

This event is right near the border of 1900 TL. Zionism really gets going in the very late 1800's, and for a people without a homeland for 1800 years, it will take decades to achieve. The free state of Israel took two full generations.
 
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