During the falklands war, the british fleet shoots down a Brazilian airliner mistaken for an Argentinian 707 reconnaisance aircraft…..what happens???
Falklands PR disaster
- Thread starter SAVORYapple
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The aviatiuon world wonders how the hell a Brazilian airliner is 2,000 miles off course...
The RN wasnt alowed free-fire zones until well down to the Falklands, and since the Argentines didnt have any long range bombers, that wasnt a problem.
The Brazillians end up apologising for their aircraft being ridiculously out of position miles away from their approved flightpath with a faulty transponder and not responding to radio calls....
That is the only way that the RN would have shot one down by mistake, and even then I think it highly unlikely due to the rules of engagement that the British followed.
That is the only way that the RN would have shot one down by mistake, and even then I think it highly unlikely due to the rules of engagement that the British followed.
I'm assuming that the idea of this question is "what happens if the British shoot down or sink a civilian transport belonging to some neutral country", not necessarily a Brazilian airliner.
Ignoring for the moment any questions about how it happens, I can't see it changing very much. The British aren't going to hunt it down in Brazil or Chile, it would have to be pretty close to the combat zone to be targeted even accidentally. Under those circumstances, I suspect that there would be a muted expression of regret by the British government and some sort of compensation would be awarded, but the general attitude would be that sometimes in a warzone, accidents happen. It's hardly a PR disaster because I suspect most people would think that anyone who goes swanning around a combat zone in that fashion is deliberately taking the risk - the people who made the decision to go in there without being assured of safe conduct have to bear some of the responsibility for what happened.
If the civilian vessel/aircraft is genuinely lost, then as others have pointed out it is massively off-course. Once again, it would be regrettable if it were attacked but the British (or the Argentinians, for that matter) would arguably be within their rights to engage anyone in the area who didn't positively identify themselves as friendly or non-combatant.
Ignoring for the moment any questions about how it happens, I can't see it changing very much. The British aren't going to hunt it down in Brazil or Chile, it would have to be pretty close to the combat zone to be targeted even accidentally. Under those circumstances, I suspect that there would be a muted expression of regret by the British government and some sort of compensation would be awarded, but the general attitude would be that sometimes in a warzone, accidents happen. It's hardly a PR disaster because I suspect most people would think that anyone who goes swanning around a combat zone in that fashion is deliberately taking the risk - the people who made the decision to go in there without being assured of safe conduct have to bear some of the responsibility for what happened.
If the civilian vessel/aircraft is genuinely lost, then as others have pointed out it is massively off-course. Once again, it would be regrettable if it were attacked but the British (or the Argentinians, for that matter) would arguably be within their rights to engage anyone in the area who didn't positively identify themselves as friendly or non-combatant.
One possibility is during the RN's transit to the Falklands. Argentina is using, or is assumed to be using, long range civilian aircraft pressed into military service for recon purposes. A neutral country's plane passes near the fleet and is shot down by mistake.
At the Falklands itself, perhaps an off course airliner flying between southern Africa and southern South America? I don't know if such flights even existed back then.
The worst case might be an Aeroflot plane in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not proposing an Aeroflot plane flying a covert recon mission; I'm proposing an Aeroflot plane honestly off course or a case of mistaken identity/intentions.
At the Falklands itself, perhaps an off course airliner flying between southern Africa and southern South America? I don't know if such flights even existed back then.
The worst case might be an Aeroflot plane in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not proposing an Aeroflot plane flying a covert recon mission; I'm proposing an Aeroflot plane honestly off course or a case of mistaken identity/intentions.
Geez...look up the rules of engagement the RN was fighting under.
Any plane outside or at the edge of the task force exclsuion zone is going to meet a harrier, which unless it detects f/c radar aimed at it will do nothing without a visual check.
Anything that wanders into a military exclusion zone does so at its own risk (remember the US shooting down civilian airliners in the middle east). Standard maritime law, once an exclusion zone is declared you are an idiot to go anywhere near it.
And the task force was in the middle of nowhere, there just arent any flight or shipping lanes in the South Atlantic, its one of the most deserted parts of the world you can hope to fight in.
Any plane outside or at the edge of the task force exclsuion zone is going to meet a harrier, which unless it detects f/c radar aimed at it will do nothing without a visual check.
Anything that wanders into a military exclusion zone does so at its own risk (remember the US shooting down civilian airliners in the middle east). Standard maritime law, once an exclusion zone is declared you are an idiot to go anywhere near it.
And the task force was in the middle of nowhere, there just arent any flight or shipping lanes in the South Atlantic, its one of the most deserted parts of the world you can hope to fight in.
As indeed happened to an Argentinian 707 during the transit.
Later on, a Nimrod on maritime patrol met a 707 too. Having no weapons fit for task, both aeroplanes looked at eachother a bit, and went home. By that time, the gloves were off, and the RAF fitted their Nimrods for sidewinders. Cue 'the world's largest fighter 'plane'. Now that's an engagement I'd like to see
.There seems to be a misunderstanding here; the post refers to an incident where a Sea Harrier got within firing distance of a VARIG Airlines Boeing 707; once it was established it was a civil airliner and not a FAA ELINT aircraft(1), the CAP aborted the interception. This happened not close to the Falklands, but while the British fleet was on transit.
I don't think there would be an aircraft shooting down; as they were crossing a commercial route at the time, there would be precautions taken to avoid such an incident.
(1)The FAA had one 707 converted as an ELINT platform, and putting it in commercial flight paths to snoop around was something they did; they also liked to file in a flight plan for one of their transport 707s, while sending in the ELINT bird, for the same purpose(they did that with some frequency in the 80's to snoop around Brazilian, and maybe Chilean, ATC).
I don't think there would be an aircraft shooting down; as they were crossing a commercial route at the time, there would be precautions taken to avoid such an incident.
(1)The FAA had one 707 converted as an ELINT platform, and putting it in commercial flight paths to snoop around was something they did; they also liked to file in a flight plan for one of their transport 707s, while sending in the ELINT bird, for the same purpose(they did that with some frequency in the 80's to snoop around Brazilian, and maybe Chilean, ATC).