Jack Layton, and the Problem This Man Presents

Makemakean

As an observer of Canadian politics, I can't help but to find Jack Layton's departure annoying. As I've mentioned several times before, I consider myself a centre-right individual, and naturally I would have supported Stephen Harper's Conservatives in 2011, Preston Manning's Reform Party in 1993 and Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservatives in 1984. That being said I must add that I cannot help appreciating the persona, the passion and the oratory skill of a politician even though I may not necessarily agree with him or her politically. Jack Layton was such an individual, and I fully expected to see him become Prime Minister no later than 2015.

Then came his death and the NDP's progression towards government has thenceforth been up in the air, if not outright halted. Somewhat sad, you may want to add, since the narrative of a man leading the NDP from 13 seats to government is an intriguing such. The fact that he was a Clement Attlee look-a-like doesn't help but make you feel that he was meant to become Canada's first NDP Prime Minister and that this very timeline is in fact an alternate such, whereas in the real timeline, Jack Layton is alive and well, firmly consolidating his party's mandate in Quebec while simultaneously planning the New Democrat's big breakthrough in British Columbia, Ontario and Manitoba.

Clement-Attlee-005.jpg
jack_layton.jpg

Almost scary, isn't it?
​

Alas, making such a timeline, though intellectually appealing it may be, feels... Well, it feels somewhat like bad taste considering how recent his death was.

My question therefore is, when will it become appropriate to make a Prime Minister Jack Layton-timeline?

Discuss.
 

Perky50

A good time to make Jack Layton Prime Minister?
Never!
I have been voting in this country since 1977. I have lived through Trudeau, Mulroney and Cretien, as well as a few other lesser souls that filled a few small gaps in between. With the possible exception of The Right Honorable Joe Clark - the only one that deserved the title - they have all seemed to do their utmost to run the nation into the pit.

We finally have a Prime Minister in Steven Harper who seems to be able to get our nation moving ahead again and you would have Layton replace him?

The NDP made large gains in Quebec by climbing up on his soap box and playing to the need of Quebec's desire to become a better class of citizens then us undeserving second class citizens of English Ancestry.

As to making huge inroads in Ontario, The NDP would have to sweep the complete province for that as they have for the most part always done good there. The backbone of the New Democrat's support federally in the last 20 years has its roots in unions and urban population centers. For the most part the NDP's showing in Ontario is always good. The only thing that might sway that up or down is whether support drifts to or from the Liberals.

As to B.C., their politics have traditionally had a portside vision for years, so there again, unless the province went totally NDP with a smattering of Liberals I really would not call it big Breakthrough.

That leaves Manitoba, and as I live here I really don't recall any big New Democratic big breakthrough's here either. The NDP won their traditional ridings in the north and in Winnipeg. Other than that there really wasn't much of a change. Hell, even if there was it really wouldn't make a lot of difference as with a population of just over a million, we don't add up to much i n the federal political picture any way.

I do wonder why Mr. Layton did not do so much better in that one time NDP safe haven in the province of Saskatchewan. With such a fine orator at the helm you'd think the New Democrats would have gathered in all their lost support in that province, but it didn't happen.

I would agree with you that Mr. Layton was a master orator and had a great knack for telling people what they wanted to hear, and he used that to his advantage to garner support for his cause, particularily in Quebec.

What is not appreciated by many people is that out of the three main parties in Canadain Federal politics the NDP have a unique advantage. The NDP can put whatever they like in their platform and not have to worry how viable or realistic it is as they will never form the government. So as a result they can say what they want without fear of having to back it up.

With small exception the secret to winning Canadian elections is to appeal to the center, as like it or lump it, that's where most of us are. We all have enough Of a socialist bent that we need our social programs respected and healthy, and we want a proper quality of life without getting too much government being crammed down our throat. As well we want our economy to be balanced and healthy.

Most of the world is facing challenging times, but our nation is weathering quite a bit better than most. We have arguably the best banks in the world, our social safety net is comprehensive, and while our health care system needs some improvements, it's still a hell of a lot better than most other places on the planet. Over all we are consistently rated as one of the best nations in the world to live in.

I really do not see where Mr. Layton would ever had been able to provide a platform that would appeal in any way shape or form to enough Canadians to be asked to form a government. The New Democrats are too far left of center for that to be realized without a major shift in Canadian political opinion.
Federally the NDP is a rather large fringe party, prone to pouncing on whatever special interest issue they happen to decide is the one to gain them support. In my humble opinion to get them elected federally would take an event horizon of such unusual magnitude that I would be taking a long hard look to see where Bob the space bat was hiding ....
... And I'd be signing up for the first western seperatist party I could find.



​
 

Elfwine

What Plumber said. Whether he'd be a success or a failure really isn't the point, but assuming there's a way to answer "so how does he become PM anyway?", go for it.
 

RGB

Disagree with everything the (presumably) Albertan separatist said; any time would be a good time for a Layton government. The NDP have been nothing if not consistent about some core messages, unlike the Liberals who really do stand for nothing much, and the various varieties of the infinitely rebrandable conservatives, who stand for the interests of big money but mostly get elected through populist fearmongering.

Layton also represented, of course, a considerable move centrewards from historic NDP. Looking out from Alberta where one-party democracy is the norm, that may be hard to appreciate. So as to your question, when is a realistic time for a Layton government, that's a bit harder to answer. The events of the next few years could have generated enough dissatisfaction that the next election could be it. If we somehow weathered it, however, we might find our institutions very firmly to the right of where they are now, so much so that other parties would have a hard time threatening Conservative dominance in principle.
 

theReturner

RGB said:
The events of the next few years could have generated enough dissatisfaction that the next election could be it. If we somehow weathered it, however, we might find our institutions very firmly to the right of where they are now, so much so that other parties would have a hard time threatening Conservative dominance in principle.
Click to expand...

Contrary to what some Tories would say, I don't think Canada is getting more Conservative. The last time they were even able to win 50% of the PV was way back in 1984, almost 3 decades ago now. And the Conservative Party we have now has not yet been able to even win over 40% in a Federal Election. Their is a desire in this country I think for a strong, centre-left party, and in the coming years the NDP may be able to provide that, though FPTP and vote splitting with the Liberals and the Greens makes getting them into power hard. Of course their are alot of other challenges too. But I think I'm getting off-topic. :eek:

As for the OP, I think for any TL to be done realistly about a Prime Minister Jack Layton will have to wait until after the 2015 election at least. By then we will know how well the Tories do in power for 9 years, how well the NDP do in opposition for 4 years, and how the country and the world will have been. Not to mention other details such as who the Liberals pick as their leader, and what happens to the remainder of the BQ. I will say this though, I always thought one of the advantages Jack and the NDP would have going into the 2015 Federal Election was that unlike Dion or Iggy, the Tories wouldn't be able to smear Jack the way they did with the other two. He was already clearly defined in the minds of Canadians, and was far more likeable and appealing than either of them, or Harper for that matter. If Jack were to go up against him without the Liberals in the way, I think he would have had a strong chance of beating him. Alas, we'll never know...

On the other hand, since this is an Alternate History site, you could always try making him Leader of the Opposition earlier...
 

The Ubbergeek

The NDP made large gains in Quebec by climbing up on his soap box and playing to the need of Quebec's desire to become a better class of citizens then us undeserving second class citizens of English Ancestry.
Click to expand...

We are not this.

'Different' =/= 'Superior'. :rolleyes:
 

A Rakish Angel

Makemakean said:
As an observer of Canadian politics, I can't help but to find Jack Layton's departure annoying. As I've mentioned several times before, I consider myself a centre-right individual, and naturally I would have supported Stephen Harper's Conservatives in 2011, Preston Manning's Reform Party in 1993 and Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservatives in 1984. That being said I must add that I cannot help appreciating the persona, the passion and the oratory skill of a politician even though I may not necessarily agree with him or her politically. Jack Layton was such an individual, and I fully expected to see him become Prime Minister no later than 2015.

Then came his death and the NDP's progression towards government has thenceforth been up in the air, if not outright halted. Somewhat sad, you may want to add, since the narrative of a man leading the NDP from 13 seats to government is an intriguing such. The fact that he was a Clement Attlee look-a-like doesn't help but make you feel that he was meant to become Canada's first NDP Prime Minister and that this very timeline is in fact an alternate such, whereas in the real timeline, Jack Layton is alive and well, firmly consolidating his party's mandate in Quebec while simultaneously planning the New Democrat's big breakthrough in British Columbia, Ontario and Manitoba.

Clement-Attlee-005.jpg
jack_layton.jpg

Almost scary, isn't it?
​

Alas, making such a timeline, though intellectually appealing it may be, feels... Well, it feels somewhat like bad taste considering how recent his death was.

My question therefore is, when will it become appropriate to make a Prime Minister Jack Layton-timeline?

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I'd say enough time has passed since the stillborn Liberal-NDP coalition of 2008 to make a timeline about it, tho' I can't imagine it'd end well for Jack... If I knew more about the subject, I'd have tried to write it...
 

Broader Liberty

I think it depends how you approach it, but for the most part, I think a couple of months more.

The main issue though is how and why you are doing it and that changes what length of time is appropriate. A timeline, even from someone such as yourself [OP] who disagrees with him politically (this is not intended to sound patronising but its difficult to find the right words for it) still seems like you'd do it as a celebration of everything that was great about the man, everything that he had done and everything he could, would and should have gone on to do. And if its in that spirit then really I think you could start it now, because that TL wouldn't just be entirely respectful of the memory of Jack Layton, I think it would probably serve as a very good tribute to a man who I sincerely believe will go down as easily one of if not the greatest Canadian Prime Minister who never was.
 
RogueBeaver

RogueBeaver

In a few months I'd say. Personally I'm of half a mind to write either a Rae in '06 or Coalition timeline, but not for the next little while.
 

phx1138

I'd say, if you can explain how he either doesn't get cancer or it's cured, go ahead now. (Just being in an alt-TL could explain no cancer, IMO: slightly different genes.)

That said, I'm not a particular fan of Layton (despite being lifetime NDP, as you probably guessed by my sig:rolleyes::p). I don't trust anybody who smiles so much.:eek::rolleyes: IMO he should be selling used cars.:rolleyes:
 
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