AHC: Have the State of Deseret accepted into the Union

The challenge is to have the State of Deseret with these borders.

State_of_Deseret%2C_vector_image_cropped_-_2011.svg
 

Warsie

Banned
Utah War happens and Is more violent. Mormons declare independence. US south secedes as OTL and the central government is willing to allow deseret autonomy or even polygamy to get them back in.

Also what would be the effects of a Polygamist semiautonomous Mormon society in that timeline, and how would you envision the Utah War?
 
Utah War happens and Is more violent. Mormons declare independence. US south secedes as OTL and the central government is willing to allow deseret autonomy or even polygamy to get them back in.

Also what would be the effects of a Polygamist semiautonomous Mormon society in that timeline, and how would you envision the Utah War?

While that would succeed in creating an independent Deseret, it wouldn't get it accepted into the Union.
 
How about this? Utah War gets more violent. The US sends enough troops to virtually wipe out the Mormons. By the time they are through there are maybe 100 Mormons left in the area with many of them fleeing to Canada and others leaving the Mormon faith as they feel "God must be against them". Hardly a "nice" way of doing it but possible.
 
How about this? Utah War gets more violent. The US sends enough troops to virtually wipe out the Mormons. By the time they are through there are maybe 100 Mormons left in the area with many of them fleeing to Canada and others leaving the Mormon faith as they feel "God must be against them". Hardly a "nice" way of doing it but possible.


And how would this create a Deseret State? :rolleyes:
 
And how would this create a Deseret State? :rolleyes:

I agree, seems more like a scenario plotted out with the explicit intent to be cruel towards the Mormons.

What did the Mormons ever do to you, except to wake you up at 9:00 a.m. on Saturday morning to tell you the good news of the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and how a 19th century farm boy saw-...

On second thought, they are kind of annoying.

Send in the armies! Make them pay for what their descendants will do in 150 years!


Disclaimer: Obviously, I am joking. I love you, Mormons! :eek:
(Especially you, Prof. Henry Eyring!)
 
Hmm... The proposed state includes pretty much everything south of the Missouri Compromise line. Perhaps free-soil Congressmen could press to include all that in free-soil Deseret to block the expansion of slavery? You'd need an attitude change for that, though, since the abolitionist movement was mostly also staunchly anti-polygamy.
 
I agree, seems more like a scenario plotted out with the explicit intent to be cruel towards the Mormons.

What did the Mormons ever do to you, except to wake you up at 9:00 a.m. on Saturday morning to tell you the good news of the gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and how a 19th century farm boy saw-...

On second thought, they are kind of annoying.

Send in the armies! Make them pay for what their descendants will do in 150 years!


Disclaimer: Obviously, I am joking. I love you, Mormons! :eek:
(Especially you, Prof. Henry Eyring!)

Not really, like I said it wasn't "nice". However the Mormons weren't exactly popular at the time so handing over such a huge area is far fetched. Getting rid of them gets rid of that "problem". I don't have any particular problems with Mormons but the people of that time period did and that has to be taken into account. Remember this, as late as 1887 "A Study in Scarlet" was written where Sherlock Holmes first case involves "Evil Mormons" who force a woman into marrying one of them presumably raping her and she dies some time later. Although it was controversial and Doyle seems to regret it some time later it was a popular story partly because that is what a lot of people thought about Mormons at the time. To a lot of people it wasn't too far fetched.
 
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Not really, like I said it wasn't "nice". However the Mormons weren't exactly popular at the time so handing over such a huge area is far fetched. Getting rid of them gets rid of that "problem". I don't have any particular problems with Mormons but the people of that time period did and that has to be taken into account. Remember this, as late as 1887 "A Study in Scarlet" was written where Sherlock Holmes first case involves "Evil Mormons" who force a woman into marrying one of them presumably raping her and she dies some time later. Although it was controversial and Doyle seems to regret it some time later it was a popular story partly because that is what a lot of people thought about Mormons at the time. To a lot of people it wasn't too far fetched.

The point would be that without the Mormons why would it be called Deseret?
 
Not really, like I said it wasn't "nice". However the Mormons weren't exactly popular at the time so handing over such a huge area is far fetched. Getting rid of them gets rid of that "problem". I don't have any particular problems with Mormons but the people of that time period did and that has to be taken into account. Remember this, as late as 1887 "A Study in Scarlet" was written where Sherlock Holmes first case involves "Evil Mormons" who force a woman into marrying one of them presumably raping her and she dies some time later. Although it was controversial and Doyle seems to regret it some time later it was a popular story partly because that is what a lot of people thought about Mormons at the time. To a lot of people it wasn't too far fetched.

Your later statements clarified your position.

If I expressed myself poorly, allow me to say that I never thought that you had anything against Mormons or anything (indeed, why would you?), I was merely trying to joke about the fact that upon first reading it, it wasn't clear that this would help the development of the State of Deseret, but rather sounded like a cruel way to get rid off the Mormons.

As the person who once ISOTed Medieval Mecca, Baghdad and Cairo to the Arctic Archipelago, I should be the first one to admit that what you do in timelines is quite distinct from having any real-life dislike for particular religions. ;)
 
I'm surprised MormonMobster hasn't jumped into this thread, he's usually very efficient at sorting these things out.

Putting that aside, regarding the idea suggested above of Taylor living... it simply won't work out. Taylor's presidency was weak, the real power lay in the Senate at the time. At best you'll see Taylor vetoing some sort of southern-favoring compromise in 1850, and a more moderate won appearing in 1851. You're highly unlikely to get Deseret out of that POD.
 

Zioneer

Banned
I'm surprised MormonMobster hasn't jumped into this thread, he's usually very efficient at sorting these things out.

Putting that aside, regarding the idea suggested above of Taylor living... it simply won't work out. Taylor's presidency was weak, the real power lay in the Senate at the time. At best you'll see Taylor vetoing some sort of southern-favoring compromise in 1850, and a more moderate won appearing in 1851. You're highly unlikely to get Deseret out of that POD.

I did; I was the first person to respond, and was the person who gave out the idea that you're mentioning. :p

Thanks for correcting my misconception; I was under the impression that Taylor was a lot stronger politically, then he apparently was.

By the way, the State of Deseret basically existed as an extralegal entity for a while; the major areas of Mormon colonization (and thus the modern Mormon Corridor) match up nicely with the area of the State of Deseret. Basically, Brigham Young ignored the Feds cutting out the once extensive Utah Territory, and directly influenced (not controlled; while he was greatly respected, the Mormons at the edges of Deseret were very independent) LDS populations throughout the Mountain West states. So even though Deseret wasn't accepted, Brigham didn't give a hoot, and acted as if it existed anyway.

I think the best you could do is give Utah a few small stretches of land that belongs to each of those OTL states (except California), and possibly the entire state of Nevada if the Mormons get really lucky.


But I think a more interesting TL idea than the oft-tried State of Deseret would be a Mormon-majority state within Mexico.
 
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