Philip II of Macedon

While doing research for my Blood & Gold TL, an interesting scenario occurred to me:

WI Philip II of Macedon had not been assassinated in 336 B.C. and instead gone on to invade Persia instead of his son? I know that this has been asked before, but, suppose after winning several victories against Darius III, the Persian King offers him half of his domains (i.e. everything west of the Euphrates) as in OTL with Alexander, and Philip, being the pragmatist he is, accepts (let's say it leaves him with Asia Minor, Syria and the Levant, Egypt and possibly also parts of Mesopotamia). Perhaps he also offers him 50,000 golden talents and the hand of one of his daughters as in OTL.

So, what happens now in this scenario (assuming Philip consolidates his holdings)?

I think Philip will probably be assassinated at some point anyway, but, assuming he makes it to maybe 325BC, and consolidates for five years, I suspect things will look very different to Alexander IOTL. I suspect Philip won't go for Alexander's ham-fisted efforts to integrate the local elite into his power structure, which may not help in the short term, but makes little difference in the long term (it should be remembered that by about 325BC IOTL, most Persian Satraps left in place by Alexander were revolting). I also think it's very unlikely that Philip would have started to call himself divine in the way Alexander did.

I'm not sure it's realistic that the Persians would offer that deal to Phillip - Phillip's ambition for a war against the Persians was one of retribution for the Perisam invasions and interference in Greej affairs and liberation of the Greek Cities.

Assuming Phillip is successful at the ATL Granicus and a battle in the Levant, I would expect that he might try to sack the main Persian cities but ultimately fall back to a core of Macedonia, Thrace, Asia Minor and the Levant. Perversely this might give Alexander a stronger base to launch a follow on invasion of Persia later with a stronger army and a weaker Persia.

Egypt would be an interesting place in this TL as it would probably liberate itself (and possibly become a Phillipian ally).

Alexander would still probably go on to annihilate the remnants of the Perisan empire but without the earlier campaigns and the campaign in Egypt, he might be able to consolidate his empire up to Indus before war exhaustion kicks in to his troops. I still don't rate the chances of the Persian / Bactrian provinces remaining witin the greek sphere of influence for long but it might mean that Greek Asia Minor remains united after Alexnders death (he'd probably die early in any evemt from battle wounds or excessive drinking)

Would be a much tougher nut for Rome to crack without the Diadochii kicking seven shades of you know what out of each other.

Basileus Giorgios said:

I think Philip will probably be assassinated at some point anyway,

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Not to challenge this statement, but just out of curiousity:
Why do you think he is going to get assassinated?
Philip somehow managed to live up to his age and his life was not what you would call 'comfort and leisure'. What changed?

Russian said:

Not to challenge this statement, but just out of curiousity:
Why do you think he is going to get assassinated?
Philip somehow managed to live up to his age and his life was not what you would call 'comfort and leisure'. What changed?

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Because Macedonian royal politics tended to involve violent deaths, and Philip had plenty of enemies and rivals at court.

Basileus Giorgios said:

Because Macedonian royal politics tended to involve violent deaths, and Philip had plenty of enemies and rivals at court.

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It has been always like this. Since he became the king and even before.

So if he managed to live through this violent Macedonian court life 23 years on the throne escaping assassinations I would give him 23 years more.

Fair enough?

Russian said:

It has been always like this. Since he became the king and even before.

So if he managed to live through this violent Macedonian court life 23 years on the throne escaping assassinations I would give him 23 years more.

Fair enough?

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If he lived that long then he would have fathered more children with his second (third?) wife Cleopatra and this might have led to a civil war with Alexander in any case.

Derek Pullem said:

If he lived that long then he would have fathered more children with his second (third?) wife Cleopatra and this might have led to a civil war with Alexander in any case.

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Certainly likely to mean one on his (Philip's) death if those children are of age.

Whether there's one in his lifetime...I'm not sure I want to know.

Perhaps we might see a Macedonian Empire that looked something more like this:

That might not be impossible.

Endymion said:

Perhaps we might see a Macedonian Empire that looked something more like this:

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I still think Egypt is more likely an ally or dependency - and I'm not sure quite as much territory would be held in the East (deserts make good buffer zones as the Romans found - Palmyra-Zuegma-Trapezus would probably mark the boundary of the Phillipian Empire, assuming Zuegma is founded as OTL)

Alpha Trion said:

Is it possible in this scenario that Philip would move his capital from Pella to Byzantium? Perhaps he is able to successfully besiege the city in TTL.

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It's not really in a better position to control the Empire than Pella.

If it survives the ATL siege better then Halicarnassus could be a possible candidate - or alternatively a Phillipollis built on the ruins?

Derek Pullem said:

It's not really in a better position to control the Empire than Pella.

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I disagree. The farther Philip moves his new seat away from Macedon, the more hold he gives himself over the Macedonian aristocracy, who are going to be present wherever he goes, albeit detached from their own respective powerbases. I can see the capital being moved to somewhere more central in Asia Minor, though probably not Byzantium. Possibly Ephesus? At this time it's one of the largest cities in the world. Although my second guess would also be a surviving Halicarnassus due to its good defenses.

Endymion said:

I disagree. The farther Philip moves his new seat away from Macedon, the more hold he gives himself over the Macedonian aristocracy, who are going to be present wherever he goes, albeit detached from their own respective powerbases. I can see the capital being moved to somewhere more central in Asia Minor, though probably not Byzantium. Possibly Ephesus? At this time it's one of the largest cities in the world. Although my second guess would also be a surviving Halicarnassus due to its good defenses.

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I agree a city in Asia Minor is more likely and Ephesus is as good as any except that it's harbour is just about to silt up.

Maybe a new capital built either at Ephesus/ Arsinoea or Halicarnassus?

Derek Pullem said:

Assuming Phillip is successful at the ATL Granicus and a battle in the Levant, I would expect that he might try to sack the main Persian cities but ultimately fall back to a core of Macedonia, Thrace, Asia Minor and the Levant. Perversely this might give Alexander a stronger base to launch a follow on invasion of Persia later with a stronger army and a weaker Persia.

Egypt would be an interesting place in this TL as it would probably liberate itself (and possibly become a Phillipian ally).

Alexander would still probably go on to annihilate the remnants of the Perisan empire but without the earlier campaigns and the campaign in Egypt, he might be able to consolidate his empire up to Indus before war exhaustion kicks in to his troops.

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With a consolidation by Phillip and thus a years delayed assault on their rump Empire by Alexander, is there much possibility the Persians could use the time given them to develop tactics to beat the Phalanx-combined arms approach of the Macedonians?

High Plains Drifter said:

With a consolidation by Phillip and thus a years delayed assault on their rump Empire by Alexander, is there much possibility the Persians could use the time given them to develop tactics to beat the Phalanx-combined arms approach of the Macedonians?

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Only by "going Parthian". And as Alexander showed against the Scythians the Macedonians could defeat horse archers taking stronghold after stronghold - much as the later Romans did against the Parthians

A "persian Phalanx" would be interesting (think Mithridates imitation legions) but the experience of the Diadochii showed that Asiatic phalangites were generally inferior to "Greek" phalangites

Russian said:

Not to challenge this statement, but just out of curiousity:
Why do you think he is going to get assassinated?
Philip somehow managed to live up to his age and his life was not what you would call 'comfort and leisure'. What changed?

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Because his wife Olympia wanted him dead so that her son Alexander would inherit the throne. Also I agree with those that suggest a new capital in the Levant. If asked I'd recommend founding a new city to be his capital on the site of Antioch in Syria.

Hero of Canton

Alexander's still around, and has a much better shot of succeeding his father than any other candidate. Once he's king, he would not feel bound by Phillip's agreement with Darius and would try to take the rest of the Persian empire. And, unless Persia had drastically reformed itself militarily, would succeed.

So, you're back in OTL only about 20 years later. However, Alexander is older and -- maybe -- has an adult Macedonian son of his own to succeed him. Timelines based on Alexander IV surviving have been done before; the wrinkle with this timeline is that the surviving son is already an adult and Macedonian instead of half-Persian, which makes his chances better. Not guaranteed, clearly -- many Macedonian monarchs before and after Alexander did not die natural deaths.

Derek Pullem said:

A "persian Phalanx" would be interesting (think Mithridates imitation legions) but the experience of the Diadochii showed that Asiatic phalangites were generally inferior to "Greek" phalangites

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An Egyptian Phalanx was a remarkable success. I don't think that Persians were somehow inferior to the Egyptians.

Hero of Canton said:

Because his wife Olympia wanted him dead so that her son Alexander would inherit the throne.

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It is that obvious, isn't it? My guess is that Phillip II (the most gifted politician of his time) understood that as well.

I would bet on Phillip assassinating her first.
He was a political genius. She was just a woman.