Utah War - more violent & a more strong Mormon secessionist/nationalist movement?

in OTL the mormons had a lot of shit to deal with the central government, and the governors sent had to deal with a lot of shit. This ended up going to the point of a war with the central government with skirmishes and battles and massacres. Now, how can you make this war stronger? Have the central government massacre Mormon settlers? have the mormons align with the confederate states? how?

ibley turns left

Have a more successful conefedarate New Mexico campaign. In OTL, Sibley conquered most of settled New Mexico. After taking Santa Fe, he turned right toward Glorieta Pass. Here a militia from Colorado susprised Sibley and plundered his baggage train. Without supplies Sibley was forced to withdraw.
While Sibley was advancing in New Mexico, a confederate detachment pushed deep into Arizona. They defeated a troop of Union soldiers st Picacho pass, and made it to Tucson. They had an understanding with the Apache,but were forced to withdraw due to lack of reinforcements.
In this timeline Sibley or a more competent general such as Kirby Smith turns left at Santa Fe and makes a deal with the Navaho. Meanwhile the Confederates send a second division into New Mexico. Then as Stan Watie fougtht for the Confederates, the Na Dene nations become confederate allies. In OTl the federals fearing that the Navaho would rise up moved them into the New Mexico lowlands.
Seeing the opportunity, the Mormons would also rise up. California would then be almost cut off from the east. And with Na Dene help, the reinforced Confederate brigade in Arizona could take Yuma and have an outlet to the pacific through the colorado delta.
In order to get the Mormons on their side, the Confederates might have to keep the New Mexico territory free from slavery. Would the confederate constitution allow for a non-slave teritory?

edvardas, unfortunately, that wouldn't work; the Mormons liked Lincoln pretty well, and never really thought about rising up against him. Buchanan, though... If he messes up the Utah War even more, perhaps.

Maybe if you could keep the Utah War going for longer, into Lincoln's administration, it would spark more seccessionism.

But what's really needed is for the Mormons to see themselves as even more apart from the Gentiles; perhaps delay the Mexican-American war for a presidential administration or two. 8 years would give the Mormons time to have a more sizable population in the Utah region (in this case being a lot larger than Utah itself) So have the United States be distracted by something that isn't Manifest Destiny for a while, and let the Mormons build up their influence and power, and it might work. I think the maximum amount of time you could distract the Americans would be 3 presidential terms/12 years, and in that time, the Mormons could be a lot more numerous and able to resist limited US invasion. They could go the Swiss route, and use the mountains to make it not worth it to invade Deseret.

Also, get the native tribes on the side of the Mormons, and you could make the Utah War bloodier.

I know in OTL they tried getting the natives to breed with the Mormons and also get them to ally in the Utah war.

Warsie said:

I know in OTL they tried getting the natives to breed with the Mormons and also get them to ally in the Utah war.

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I am going to assume that this isn't what it seems to be since it would be a banning offense for utter racism and trolling on an epic scale. I am going with English as a 2nd (or 3rd) language or a major brain cramp that dropped you to the floor immediately after hitting send

DO NOT ever bring this sort of stuff into this Forum again. EVER.

I meant intermarrying with Mormon groups to cement such an alliance. Also the mormons consider the natives a 'chosen people'. There was no racialist tint implied.

Warsie said:

I meant intermarrying with Mormon groups to cement such an alliance. Also the mormons consider the natives a 'chosen people'. There was no racialist tint implied.

Click to expand...

Breeding is a word typically used with lower animals and plants. It is considered insulting when used with people.

Warsie said:

I meant intermarrying with Mormon groups to cement such an alliance. Also the mormons consider the natives a 'chosen people'. There was no racialist tint implied.

Click to expand...

At the very least, use 'this' to show it.

edvardas said:

Have a more successful conefedarate New Mexico campaign. In OTL, Sibley conquered most of settled New Mexico. After taking Santa Fe, he turned right toward Glorieta Pass. Here a militia from Colorado susprised Sibley and plundered his baggage train. Without supplies Sibley was forced to withdraw.
While Sibley was advancing in New Mexico, a confederate detachment pushed deep into Arizona. They defeated a troop of Union soldiers st Picacho pass, and made it to Tucson. They had an understanding with the Apache,but were forced to withdraw due to lack of reinforcements.
In this timeline Sibley or a more competent general such as Kirby Smith turns left at Santa Fe and makes a deal with the Navaho. Meanwhile the Confederates send a second division into New Mexico. Then as Stan Watie fougtht for the Confederates, the Na Dene nations become confederate allies. In OTl the federals fearing that the Navaho would rise up moved them into the New Mexico lowlands.
Seeing the opportunity, the Mormons would also rise up. California would then be almost cut off from the east. And with Na Dene help, the reinforced Confederate brigade in Arizona could take Yuma and have an outlet to the pacific through the colorado delta.
In order to get the Mormons on their side, the Confederates might have to keep the New Mexico territory free from slavery. Would the confederate constitution allow for a non-slave teritory?

Click to expand...

I really doubt Sibley could have done much better. And turning left at Santa Fe is heading out into some of the most desolate territory on earth. The navajo are in no position to provide supplies, and probably wouldn't even if they somehow could.

Access to the main areas of Mormon settlement from Navajo country is also extremely difficult, over several hundred miles of some of the most forbidding terrain on the planet.

A Mormon-American Indian alliance would be the way to go.

Johnrankins said:

Breeding is a word typically used with lower animals and plants. It is considered insulting when used with people.

Click to expand...

That slipped past me lol. Part of it might've been my grandmother who in the past referred to mixed people as 'half-breeds' without any ill intent (raised in rural south of the early-mid-20th century) and part of it was....me being very scientific I guess and not focusing on that.

The Ubbergeek said:

At the very least, use 'this' to show it.

Click to expand...

quotes. Okay.