Jewish state in Germany after WWII

Zeus

Banned
What if the international community decide to create a Jewish state in parts of Germany during WWII, since Germany was the one responsible for the Holocaust? Where in Germany would this state be located and how would it develop over time? Also, what would be its relations with neighboring countries?
 
Hmm, southern Germany to stick it to Austria? East is not viable due to the Russians pushing borders around. Northern Germany is possible, or even just taking away west prussia, and giving it to the Jewish would be funny. There are a few good options. Not any are good ideas because denazification might take even longer due to German resentment of Jews taking their "space", and nazism will almost never fade because of that.
 

Zeus

Banned
Hmm, southern Germany to stick it to Austria? East is not viable due to the Russians pushing borders around. Northern Germany is possible, or even just taking away west prussia, and giving it to the Jewish would be funny. There are a few good options. Not any are good ideas because denazification might take even longer due to German resentment of Jews taking their "space", and nazism will almost never fade because of that.

As for the Nazis, I still think their support will drastically decrease over time, as the Jews could say "We did nothing bad to you Germans and helped improve your economy, and as a reward you slaughtered us." Thus, the Jews would have a legitimate claim to gaining parts of Germany. Of course, this would also likely involve large population transfers, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem, for millions of Germans were already kicked out of Poland and Czechoslovakia (and thus another expulsion wouldn't look so bad). Finally, I think the Jewish state would have a large coastline, as many Jews would want a thriving tourist industry and important strategic position.
 
It should have been established in Bavaria, and it's capital in Munich, Hitler's old stomping grounds and the birthplace of the Nazi movement.
 
Maybe not the best of ideas on the international community's part. German infrastructure is in ruins and agricultural production is insufficient to feed the existing population. If this Jewish state is opened to non-German Jews, the Allies would have a very hard time feeding all the newcomers in addition to the Germans already living there. If you deport the Germans, you might alleviate the food problem, but where would you deport them to?

Masses of repatriated German POWs and German civilians fleeing from Soviet-occupied Eastern Europe were already straining the Allies' capacity to ship in aid and food for them. The addition of Jewish immigrants would present a serious problem with the food crisis in full swing. Ideally, you'd want to send them somewhere where the infrastructure hasn't been bombed to pieces. Austria, maybe?
 
Yea take all of Bavaria away. That way "old" Prussian Germans can take themselves away from the image of nazi's. I think that the Jewish ppl would have a valid point with what you said Zeus. Still Bavaria, and throw in Austria. Dont even let them have a state anymore. Turn it into a Heymshtodt like from A Shift In Priorities by rast.
 
A possible means to bring this about and actually in character for the Stalinists is to take German territory, perhaps say West Prussia and Posen, and make it a Jewish state fully subservient to Moscow. That way Stalin could satisfy his own anti-semitism with just enough of a moral gloss to keep the democracies from looking too hard at just what he's doing. A kind of Stalinist Pale of Settlement and to Soviet eyes a Commie equivalent to pro-US Israel.
 
You know what would be fascinating? If we had a Pro-Soviet *Israel in Germany, and a Pro-American Israel in Palestine. That would really screw up all of the Cold War.
 
I've often thought that the sensible place for such a homeland would be the west bank of the lower Rhine--basically the northern Rhineland to the Danish border. A Western Euro-Israel would thus be a buffer between Germany and many of its neighbors. It would have ready access to the sea and allies in Britain; very likely its close neighbors Belgium, the Netherlands, and Denmark as well as Norway, Britain, and France would be good friends and would support Israel in its role as a bulwark. Vice versa if postwar Germany developed without holding on to revanchism and resentment, this Israel would mediate economically and presumably politically and socially between Germany and the rest of the West.
 

Zeus

Banned
A possible means to bring this about and actually in character for the Stalinists is to take German territory, perhaps say West Prussia and Posen, and make it a Jewish state fully subservient to Moscow. That way Stalin could satisfy his own anti-semitism with just enough of a moral gloss to keep the democracies from looking too hard at just what he's doing. A kind of Stalinist Pale of Settlement and to Soviet eyes a Commie equivalent to pro-US Israel.

I think that having a completely pro-Soviet Jewish state is unlikely, as the Jewish state will probably demand a free-market economy to stimulate growth, and the USSR is unlikely to allow that.
 
to Soviet eyes a Commie equivalent to pro-US Israel.

I think that having a completely pro-Soviet Jewish state is unlikely, as the Jewish state will probably demand a free-market economy to stimulate growth, and the USSR is unlikely to allow that.

Israel IOTL was very Pro-Soviet for awhile (alot of the early Israeli leaders were Socialists and Communists), it was'nt really until the whole Palestine thing that that changed.
 

Zeus

Banned
Israel IOTL was very Pro-Soviet for awhile (alot of the early Israeli leaders were Socialists and Communists), it was'nt really until the whole Palestine thing that that changed.

They might have had good relations with the USSR until 1967, but (as far as I know) Israel still had a free-market economy during this time period. There's no way the USSR would allow one of its own puppet states to have a free market economy at this point in time.
 
Even if it would make some sense (and not too long ago, German/Jewish author Henryk M. Broder suggested giving Schleswig-Holstein to the Jews): I wonder whether the Jews would like to live so close to the former nazis. And imagining that old and new nazis demand that the Jews will be kicked out from "German soil"... not good at all. No, this solution has some big disadvantages.
 
Even if it would make some sense (and not too long ago, German/Jewish author Henryk M. Broder suggested giving Schleswig-Holstein to the Jews): I wonder whether the Jews would like to live so close to the former nazis. And imagining that old and new nazis demand that the Jews will be kicked out from "German soil"... not good at all. No, this solution has some big disadvantages.
Many big advantages as well. The most obvious is that most Jews lived in Europe. Also, Germany is hardly in a position to protest about a Jewish state being carved out of German territory. Israel would also benefit from not being in, y'know, a godforsaken desert surrounded by third world countries. Of course, as many farsighted among the Allies realized that the Middle East would be important for many reasons geostrategically, the temptation to take advantage of a justification of getting a foothold there must have been very strong...
 
They might have had good relations with the USSR until 1967, but (as far as I know) Israel still had a free-market economy during this time period. There's no way the USSR would allow one of its own puppet states to have a free market economy at this point in time.

There's a difference between being pro-Soviet and a puppet.

If there was a Jewish state set up in eastern Germany however, it would be a pretty effective Soviet ally, I could see it playing something similar to the right hand man role that East Germany played on foreign adventures. Germany would likely remain in turmoil however and the Poles wouldn't be very happy depending on where this state was.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Many big advantages as well. The most obvious is that most Jews lived in Europe. Also, Germany is hardly in a position to protest about a Jewish state being carved out of German territory. Israel would also benefit from not being in, y'know, a godforsaken desert surrounded by third world countries. Of course, as many farsighted among the Allies realized that the Middle East would be important for many reasons geostrategically, the temptation to take advantage of a justification of getting a foothold there must have been very strong...

There's also the pretty big deal being neighbours to people who can crush you, and who intensely hate you, and if ten million Germans is ethnic cleansed in West Germany to create state for 1-2 million Jews, you are going to see Nazism stay rather popular.
More or less all the suggestion for a Jewish homeland in Germany is insane. Either you place them in places where they are a enclave in Germany, else you alienate the neighbours.
 
I think that having a completely pro-Soviet Jewish state is unlikely, as the Jewish state will probably demand a free-market economy to stimulate growth, and the USSR is unlikely to allow that.

Given how the Germans would still hate Jews, it's arguable that knowledge alone would lead the Jewish People's Republic of Posen to side with the USSR, whose army can "protect" it.
 
What if the international community decide to create a Jewish state in parts of Germany during WWII, since Germany was the one responsible for the Holocaust? Where in Germany would this state be located and how would it develop over time? Also, what would be its relations with neighboring countries?
So you want the Allies to create a large Jewish ghetto in Central Europe? Zionism was firmly focused on Palestine by then, so Jewish support for such an idea would be close to non-existent, i.e. it would never have happened.

A possible means to bring this about and actually in character for the Stalinists is to take German territory, perhaps say West Prussia and Posen, and make it a Jewish state fully subservient to Moscow. That way Stalin could satisfy his own anti-semitism with just enough of a moral gloss to keep the democracies from looking too hard at just what he's doing. A kind of Stalinist Pale of Settlement and to Soviet eyes a Commie equivalent to pro-US Israel.
He had it already: the Jewish Autonomous Oblast. Needless to say, it wasn't very popular for Jewish migrants.
 
They should've given a part of East Prussia to the Jews, maybe maybe they could make it a Jewish SSR or something. But Stalin was anti-Semetic so this idea isn't very plausible.
 
Well, even though the point is to punish Germany I think you should mass deport the Austrians, as they were the source of so many problems through the ages, and it would be a slap in the face to have Hitler's prize Jewel the Eagles Nest turned into a Jewish Presidential Mansion
 
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