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Old December 27th, 2010, 10:51 PM
DuQuense DuQuense is offline
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Social/Cultural effects - Japanese Philippines

Let us assume [Handwavium] a Japanese Philippines around the time of WW 1.

Now in Japanese Karafuto the Japanese pushed any Russians Settlers [Few] out of the territory and treated the rest like they did the Ainu. [most were]
In Taiwan they tried Forced Assimilation, thousands of Settlers, Japanese schools, Renaming the Natives with Japanese Names, etc.
However the Ainu policy was well established, and on Taiwan half the Natives were ethnic Chinese [ie Asian].

In the Philippines the Japanese are dealing with the natives [nesian], long term Settlers [Spanish], European Business, Chinese Merchants, Native-sized Japanese [pre 1640 settlers].
The northern Half is solidly Christian, the south solidly Muslim.

And now this whole mess of Gajim is part of the Japanese Empire.

In the US despite being -enslaved -segregated- discriminated - Blacks have given us Gospel - Ragtime - Jazz - Scat- R&B - Rap - & Hip Hop.

?So what effects will all these Gajim have on Japanese Society & Culture?
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Old December 28th, 2010, 04:18 PM
Don Lardo Don Lardo is offline
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Originally Posted by DuQuense View Post
Let us assume [Handwavium] a Japanese Philippines around the time of WW 1.

As is usual in threads of this type, the How and Why of a Japanese Philippines around 1914 will greatly effect the outcomes of a Japanese Philippines around 1914.

A Japan which could seize or gain the Philippines by that time is a very different Japan than the one in the OTL and, given European/US views regarding Asians in general, Japan in specific, and Japanese expansion in particular, that very different Japan is also operating in a very different world.

Answer the How and Why and you'll have a good chance at answering your other questions.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 11:48 AM
DuQuense DuQuense is offline
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Lets go with the German Philippines , and Japan gets them in WW1.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 12:18 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Old January 9th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Cryptic Cryptic is offline
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And now this whole mess of Gajim is part of the Japanese Empire.

In the US despite being -enslaved -segregated- discriminated - Blacks have given us Gospel - Ragtime - Jazz - Scat- R&B - Rap - & Hip Hop.

?So what effects will all these Gajim have on Japanese Society & Culture?
I think very limited. The level of xenophobism in Japanese culture makes 1930s America l0ok like an open and tolerant society by contrast.

As you mentioned above, youth music may transfer from Gajim. The authoritatian and paranoid Japanese government, however, would discourage its distribution and public performance. Likewise, the locals, no matter how they tried, could never be Japanese to the Japanese.

If the U.S. siezed the islands in WWII, I think the only long lasting Japanese impact in the north would be Japanese language amongst some elderly people and older archive records in Japanese. The transfer to Japan would have faded in the 1960s.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 01:33 PM
Joseph Solis in Australia Joseph Solis in Australia is offline
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Since the Philippine culture is predominantly influenced by the Hispanic culture, there would be no radical changes in the cultural aspects. With the Japanese occupation after WWI let say the Germans bought the Philippines from the Spaniards in 1899 had the Americans never invades Philippines, I could see that Philippines will be govern like the Japanese did in Korea and Taiwan and could industrialize the Philippines with some extent with Japanese workers to be bought in the Philippines. I think there would be more Japanese in the Philippines if that happens. In case the Americans seize after WWII, I think they will just govern for 10-15 years as the Filipinos wants independence.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 04:06 PM
DuQuense DuQuense is offline
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If the U.S. seized the islands in WWII, I think the only long lasting Japanese impact in the north would be Japanese language amongst some elderly people and older archive records in Japanese. The transfer to Japan would have faded in the 1960s.
I'm thinking Japanese Philippines - Butterflies into No Pacific War.
Japan has held the Islands for the past 95 years.
As such sometime in the 50's ~60's they had to face up to these being Their Gajim. So how do they integrate the Islands into their Culture.
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Old January 11th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Mostlyharmless Mostlyharmless is offline
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The “Handwavium” is not too hard as noted. Have someone in Spain realise that Spain is not going to be able to hold either Cuba or the Philippines against American hostility without help and offer to sell the Philippines and Guam for a lot of German money, which must be partly spent in German shipyards, and several existing German warships. Then assume that Spain still gets defeated in 1898 so that not too much is changed. We further assume, highly implausibly, that Franz Ferdinand's driver still takes the same wrong turning in 1914 and that Japan now invades and takes the Philippine.

The changes are now huge. OTL Japan went to Versailles and wanted the German Islands, Germany's Concession in Shantung and the racial equality clause. Wilson and the Australians killed the racial equality clause, they got the Concession but were then levered out at Washington in 1922 and were left with the islands, which were strategically useful but poor. After 1922, Japan identified herself as one of the “have not” powers and in the Foreign Ministry in particular, good relations with the Anglo-Americans ceased to be a major objective. Now they come away with large gains (could the butterflies even let the racial equality clause pass?).

With no Philippines for the USA to worry about, how will Japanese – American relations develop? Will the USA still be so keen to build a very strong fleet? Probably they will start and as OTL decide that Congress is not keen to spend the money. However, the deal at Washington is now different because the USA cannot offer not to fortify Guam or the Philippines. So either the Japanese get a higher ratio or they keep the Concession or perhaps, no deal. The first two would reduce Japanese – American stresses.

In 1923, we still get the earthquake. Japan still runs short of money. However, the Army cannot be cut as OTL because it is needed in the Philippines. Thus the IJA is less inclined to prepare to oppose civilian politicians than OTL.

Oh about culture. I suspect Philippine cooking would be taken up because Japan took curry from the British Empire and would be keen to use Empire produced food. No idea what else the extra naikokujin ("inside country people") would do.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 04:39 PM
Mostlyharmless Mostlyharmless is offline
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A really obscure change arising from a Japanese Philippines is that Japanese armour would probably be made with a low nickel content and be hardened by its chromium and molybdenum content. Thus it would resemble German WW2 Wotan armour or post WW2 U.S. Navy HY-80 and HY-180 steel. This is because there is a significant amount of chromium ore in the Philippines and some molybdenum in Korea and Manchuria while the Japanese Empire was very short of nickel. An interesting side effect might be that Japanese steel might be easier to weld than OTL. See http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan...rpsept2009.htm for some more details.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 05:22 PM
Valdemar II Valdemar II is offline
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There are a few question about a German Phillippines:

How would two decade of German rule effect the island?
Would Japan be able to conquer the Philippine, in OTL it took years to conquer the different German colonies, and none was as densely populated or developed as the Phillipines, if Germany have followed the recipe they used in their other colonies, it's going to be incredible hard to conquer. So the Japanese are likely going to need help to it, or they only receive it in the final treaty.
How will it effect the Japanese Army to deal with a real enemy in WWI, will it result in them dropping the elan model of warfare?
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Old January 15th, 2011, 09:44 AM
Mostlyharmless Mostlyharmless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdemar II View Post
There are a few question about a German Phillippines:

How would two decade of German rule effect the island?
Good question! I have no idea but perhaps there are experts here on German colonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdemar II View Post
Would Japan be able to conquer the Philippine, in OTL it took years to conquer the different German colonies, and none was as densely populated or developed as the Phillipines, if Germany have followed the recipe they used in their other colonies, it's going to be incredible hard to conquer. So the Japanese are likely going to need help to it, or they only receive it in the final treaty.
How will it effect the Japanese Army to deal with a real enemy in WWI, will it result in them dropping the elan model of warfare?
A superior army can always conquer the Philippines with naval superiority. As MacArthur's forces found in December 1941, you cannot defend all the coast of Luzon still less the other islands. Retreating to Bataan gives a defensible position and blocks the use of Manila but eventually, after about 6 months in 1942, you will run out of food. In 1945, Yamashita lasted slightly longer by retreating to the central mountains after the January US landings but might not have been able to prolong things much beyond August.
If the Germans go for the Bataan fortress route, Japan will have to relearn the lessons of Port Arthur, which should be simple as many of the officers should remember. However, it would mean that generals in 1940 would remember attacking fortifications held by machine gunners. How a guerilla war in central Luzon would go in 1914-5 depends on the attitude of the inhabitants of the region. An optimistic view might be that Japan would see the need for something like the Nakano School much earlier. A pessimistic view would have an earlier development of Japan's 1937-45 Kempeitai methods.
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