Canadians in the Falklands War

I start this post off with a question:

During the 1982 Falklands War were there any members of the Canadian Forces attached to British units/ships as part of an exchange or as observers?
I have searched high and low and can find nothing on this, just makes me more curious though.

Now, on to the meat of the post...
1982, the Falklands are invaded.
We all know 'The Empire Strikes Back' and all that jazz, but I suggest a POD.
What if the Commonwealth had some kind of secret defense agreement embedded in it? Maybe it's like the NATO 'attack one, attack us all'? Maybe it's more specific to some Commonwealth members... no matter, the defense agreement exisits and because of it Canada has to provide all support to the UK during the conflict.

Checking the MARCOM assets in 1982 it looks like the following were in Halifax (VERY rough list, forgive any errors):

Annapolis class destroyer escort - HMCS Nipigon (pre DELEX)

Restigouche class destroyer - HMCS Terra Nova, HMCS Gatineau (post IRE, pre DELEX)

St. Laurent class destroyer - HMCS Saguenay, HMCS Margaree, HMCS Assiniboine (post DELEX)

Iroquois class destroyers - HMCS Athabaskan, HMCS Iroquois (pre TRUMP)

Protecteur class auxiliary oiler replenishment (AOR) - HMCS Preserver

The St. Laurent and Iroquois class destroyers have thier Sea Kings of course.

I know not all of these ships would be fit to sail, so lets say 1/2 the destroyers and the AOR can go (5 ships).
I know none of them had anything like an effective AAW system, would the RN still want them along?

This is just the MARCOM side of things, would Land Force units be asked to come along? Might one destroyer (or more) be used as a transport.

If it had to, what would a Canadian contribution to the Falklands War have looked like?

Atomo said:

I start this post off with a question:

If it had to, what would a Canadian contribution to the Falklands War have looked like?

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Anecdote alert - about 5 years after the war I was in Israel of all places when I bumped into a Canadian soldier on leave from one of the numerous UN peacekeeping forces in the area. He was a parachutist of some sort (googles frantically - probably Canadian Airborne Regiment) and we got chatting, about the Falklands War amongst other things. He told me that his battalion had been put on instant readiness for the South Atlantic in case the British asked for reinforcements with arctic warfare training. In the end we didn't, but it's still nice to think the Canadians were ready to help out. So in answer to your question - at least one battalion of scarily competent looking parachute types...

To the best of my knowledge, there was at least one Canadian officer attached to either the Para's or the Scots Guards but he was forced to stay behind when the task force sailed.

There was also as U.S. marine corps aviator flying harriers at the time in order to gain experience once they entered service in the U.S. in 1985. He was also required to stay behind.

As far as I know, both were pretty miffed.

Russell

If the Commenwealth had entered the war, the additional air defence capabilites provided by the various navies would have been very useful.

There was also a USAF major on loan to the Argies giving military aid. They asked him to help with ordnance problems during the war. He helped. No one took him off the assignment.

Atomo said:

If it had to, what would a Canadian contribution to the Falklands War have looked like?

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I'm thinking it would be little more than the AOR you listed and perhaps some other logistics support. The ships involved would remain in the ad hoc "fleet train" group the Brits usually kept well beyond Argentine fighter range and the aircraft involved would be part of the shuttle network delivering material to Ascension.

None of the Canadian warships can defend themselves from air attack, so having them along will only make the RN's air defense job all the harder. That means they won't be used.

As for Canadian ground troops, Britain could barely lift and supply the troops it did use and Canada can't do the job at all. As with the Canadian warships, Canadian troops will only make the job harder so Canadian troops won't be used.

It might be interesting to examine this idea in concert with MacCauley's somewhat recent thread concerning a stronger Canadian military. Canadian warships which could actually assist in fleet air defense and Canadian troops lifted and supplied by Canadian naval/air assets rather than depending on the Brits for a ride would most certainly be welcome.

I've both read and heard of Canadian army units being placed on either standby or some other form of readiness during the war. I've always understood that that had more to do with wishful thinking than any official request. A similar situation occurred among parts of the USS Forrestal battle group.

I was serving aboard USS Dale, one of the carrier's guide missile cruisers, and the vessel was in the yards in Charleston at the time. A few weeks after the war began, work on the ship was suddenly accelerated, our training schedule brought forward, school transfers frozen, and leave periods limited. There was no official reason given for this, but unofficially we all "knew" the Forrestal and her escorts were going to steam to the Falklands and serve with the RN there.

Nothing happened naturally and everything returned to normal within a few weeks, but for a short period of time everyone from mess cooks to the yard commander "knew" the Forrestal was going to war and Dale had to be made ready.

Scuttlebutt sometimes takes on a life of it's own.

There's nothing that we can contribute. Remember that in 1982 we were still using the deathtraps known as Starfighters with Tigers as frontline fighters!

IOTL, there was at least one civilian Canadian vessel (a tanker) chartered to support the Task Force. (It was mentioned in Hastings and Jenkins, in a table of ships way in the back- and I can't find my dad's copy.)

It should be noted that, while browsing Google Books, it mentioned in one that the Canadian Navy viewed the shortcomings of British ships in the Falklands as a sign that they were inadequately protected...

Going by the thread intro about the "Commonwealth", surely the Australian Perth class AAW destoryers could have helped in one way or another.

RogueBeaver said:

There's nothing that we can contribute. Remember that in 1982 we were still using the deathtraps known as Starfighters with Tigers as frontline fighters!

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To be fair though, by then our CF-18s were on the way, and our ships would have likely been hurriedly refitted if they were gonna be sent to the Falklands. It would have exposed the problems the CF had with air defense at the time, though, as they were overwhelmingly focused on anti-submarine warfare. The Iroquois class did have Sea Sparrow SAMs, mind you.

Some Yank mercenaries serving as snipers with one of the Argentinian infantry battalions.

I understand there were some commandoes from across the Commonwealth, notably Australia to my knowledge, serving in SAS uniforms during the conflict.

I would be almost certain that there would be NZ citizens serving in the various services and deployed to the Falklands. NZ has a long history of exporting trained people to the British services. In fact, one of the most recent British deaths in Afghanistan was a NZ citizen, who came to the UK and enlisted (my sister works with his father).

NZ also sent HMNZS Canterbury (Leander frigate) to relieve HMS Amazon (F169), so the latter could be redeployed from the Indian Ocean to the South Atlantic

Julius Vogel said:

NZ also sent HMNZS Canterbury (Leander frigate) to relieve HMS Amazon (F169), so the latter could be redeployed from the Indian Ocean to the South Atlantic

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Yes, I should imagine there would be quite a bit of that kind of subtle support. Even Canada did it for the US in OTL w.r.t. Iraq even while their government pretended to be opposed to the war.

There's the rumour that a certain (in-)famous German tank officer who went on to become a (in-)famous general served with a British unit in the Falklands. According to some people there are even pictures proving he was there.

I do know that there was at least one Canadian who helped the Royal Marines during the initial Argentine invasion. He was an air trafic controller at Stanley Airport. During the invasion, he reconfigured the airports transponder beacon by giving off a flase altitude - any aircraft landing in the dark would think they were higher than they were and so in theory, crash. unfortunetally for the Falkland islands, the Argentines came by sea.

Russell

I like what I am seeing. I can figure as mentioned that the Canadian Airborne Regiment would have been in on it, I think that the Iroquois class destroyers and the AOR would have gone as warships (the fact that the Iroquois class destroyers have Sea Sparrow would have sealed the deal) and the St. Laurent class destroyers would have been reconfigured for the operation as crude APDs.
Excellent ideas and information!

TheMann said:

To be fair though, by then our CF-18s were on the way, and our ships would have likely been hurriedly refitted if they were gonna be sent to the Falklands. It would have exposed the problems the CF had with air defense at the time, though, as they were overwhelmingly focused on anti-submarine warfare. The Iroquois class did have Sea Sparrow SAMs, mind you.

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The ships maybe, but the F-18s weren't ordered until mid-1983*, well after that particular war ended. The review that led to the purchase was under way at the time (IIRC the Clark government had put it in motion in 1979, along with a few others such as the Aurora maritime patrol aircraft and maybe the Leopard tanks.)

*The first F-18s entered service with the CF in 1985 (410 Sqn.) and the last (either 416/441 Sqn in Cold Lake or 425 Sqn in Bagotville) were delivered in 1988. IIRC in 1988 the F-18 squadrons were: 410, 416 and 441 in Cold Lake; 425 and one other in Bagotville; and 409, 421 and 439 in Baden-Soeligen (sp?) West Germany. The air force has taken a big cut since then...)

Oh Canada

Or what if Canada siezes control of the Fauklands rether than Argentina or the UK ?

Atomo said:

I like what I am seeing. I can figure as mentioned that the Canadian Airborne Regiment would have been in on it, I think that the Iroquois class destroyers and the AOR would have gone as warships (the fact that the Iroquois class destroyers have Sea Sparrow would have sealed the deal) and the St. Laurent class destroyers would have been reconfigured for the operation as crude APDs.
Excellent ideas and information!

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Well, the Airborne Regiment could have been problematic. Britain had no land bases in the area, so they would have needed transport and operated from a ship. Now, one could do another situation like the Atlantic Conveyor and use the Air Command's Chinooks or Sea Kings, but that could have been troublesome at best.

The Iroquois class ships would have been out searching for the Argentinian subs first, but after the loss of the Sheffield they probably would have been sent to protect that Invincible and the Hermes as backup to the Type 42s the RN had to do that job. The St. Laurent and Restigouche class vessels could be fitted with the Harpoon missiles and shoulder-mounted SAMs and been used as patrol ships or auxillary APDs, too.

I'm also digging the idea of getting the Belgrano this way. The three St. Laurents and the Nipigon go in as a small task force, supposedly to find Argentina's three corvettes, but instead they sail around the Falklands and go find the Belgrano. The Argentines, knowing the Canucks have anti-ship missiles, go after them instead of splitting up the battle group. The Conqueror drops the cruiser and the Canadians mop up the two aging destroyers it has for escorts. This puts them at range of Argentinian air forces, but the Argentines are gonna be focusing their Exocets on the British fleet ships, and the Argentinian A-4s trying an attack run on the Canadian vessels with Stinger missiles is a risky business.

Canada being in the Falklands, particularly with the ground troops element, would probably give the forces a nice big boost at a time when they needed it rather badly, and probably convince Ottawa of the need to pay a little more attention to the Forces, which has all kinds of potential consequences, particularly with the really big buildups of the Canadian Forces both Clark and Mulroney proposed.