Protect and Survive: A Timeline

[Dunois]

Originally Posted by Baron Bizarre

There's an ASB story for you - if a person from 2010 ITTL was dropped down into 2010 of OTL. Our world would probably be inconceivable to someone who grew up ITTL, where I imagine that even by 2010, life will be largely devoted to nothing but survival.

I would not be so pessimistic about things myself, this is still one month after the attack and as we have seen during the last update the authorities still have a lot of problems on their hands. The "walking dead" problem will take care of itself with time, give it a few extra months and there will be only bodies left to bury in this hospital. Thence releasing manpower and facilities for othr purposes. The more incurable die the more food there is for the remaining survivors and more energy can be directed at rebuilding instead of caring for people which will die anyway.

One year after the attack things will have stabilized to a massive extent can I would even go as far as saying that some amount of trade can even be restarted then. Portsmouth is still viable in the UK, so is most of the South West and a fair bit of other areas as well. The UK has plenty of coal and now plenty of spare workforce. It seems perfectly doable to kickstart coal production a year after the attack, even more so in the light of the fact that in 1984 a lot of mines were still in activity.

TTL 2010 will be grim in some ways but it seems likely that the 15 million or so British citizens left will eat their fill and once again be able to move around the country to a circa late 19th century level. Industrial production will likely restart a year after the attack in some places and while the factories left won't churn out iPods or MP3 players. They will be able to churn out suff like guns, locomotives, engines and lorries at the very least crude ones.

If by TTL 2010 the USSR is still completely destroyed, then NATO has won the war it is as simple as that! I guess then than Pyrrhic victory would have a whole new meaning ...

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by Dunois

If by TTL 2010 the USSR is still completely destroyed, then NATO has won the war it is as simple as that! I guess then than Pyrrhic victory would have a whole new meaning ...

I think a new dictionary would have to be written to define it.

[NCW]

Originally Posted by Macragge1

Unfortunately, the authorities have run with this idea too far, to the point where almost no vets are working with animals - this is going to cause problems when attempts at full-on agriculture etcetera take place.

Got you. There's also the related problem that anuimals will be slaughtered for food now rather than being kept for breeding stock later.

Originally Posted by Macragge1

Unfortunately, the authorities just aren't organised enough at this juncture - when one looks at pictures of evacuees in the Second World War, they see those tags with name/address etcetera.

Although pretty basic, this does require a fairly large scale bureaucracy (as well as the fact that many parents will no longer have an address). Evacuation at the moment is haphazard - soldiers will simply pick out X number of people from a line during a roll-call and put them on a bus.

I must admit that I wasn't thinking of anything as organised as the WWII program - something more like the soldiers tending to pick the children from the line rather than the adults. As you say, in such a situation there would be practically zero chance that families would be re-united at a later date.

Originally Posted by Macragge1

Smothering or strangulation was an option, but; a) I guess there'd still be a disconnect between giving a loved one an overdose of pills and literally throttling them to death, and b) it would take too long and look too obvious - not only would the guards notice, other patients would be asking for it too.

There's also the point that people stick with what they know. A nurse would no doubt have heard stories of doctors or nurses giving an over-dose of morphine to a terminally ill patient and the authorities looking the other way, so she would naturally choose that method.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[NCW]

Originally Posted by Dunois

One year after the attack things will have stabilized to a massive extent can I would even go as far as saying that some amount of trade can even be restarted then. Portsmouth is still viable in the UK, so is most of the South West and a fair bit of other areas as well. The UK has plenty of coal and now plenty of spare workforce. It seems perfectly doable to kickstart coal production a year after the attack, even more so in the light of the fact that in 1984 a lot of mines were still in activity.

TTL 2010 will be grim in some ways but it seems likely that the 15 million or so British citizens left will eat their fill and once again be able to move around the country to a circa late 19th century level. Industrial production will likely restart a year after the attack in some places and while the factories left won't churn out iPods or MP3 players. They will be able to churn out suff like guns, locomotives, engines and lorries at the very least crude ones.

I think you're probably right in that the UK is lucky to have coal supplies, even though some of the disused mines are going to be tough to get operational again. Still it should be possible with sufficient man-power, especially if the authorities don't care about health and safety.

There should be enough machine tools surviving in small factories around the country to get light industry started again. Heavy industry is going to be tougher, but there again there is plenty of scrap metal to be salvaged in the cities. So yes, a late 19th century technology should be achievable.

As you say, the facilities won't exist to create anything like a modern electronics industry. Salvaging and repairing electronic equipment would become a major activity in it's own right. A working Sinclair Spectrum would be worth far more than it's weight in gold.

Originally Posted by Dunois

If by TTL 2010 the USSR is still completely destroyed, then NATO has won the war it is as simple as that! I guess then than Pyrrhic victory would have a whole new meaning ...

Britain is small enough, has a strong central authority and distinct borders, so it will probably survive as a country. In organisational terms, the large countries such as the USA and USSR are going to come off worse. Survival is going to give authority to smaller regional governments in both countries. While US States (or even smaller divisions) might pay lip service to the idea of a federal government, you can bet that if anything like the USA exists in 2010, it will be far more decentralised than it was before.

The USSR has an even worse situation with plenty of ethnic groups that will guard their new-found independance from any attempt to re-create the central authority. The closest historical comparison I can think of is the Thirty Years War, where the devestation basically destroyed the Holy Roman Empire and gave effective power to the various German Princes.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[darkblue1893]

Originally Posted by NCW

As you say, the facilities won't exist to create anything like a modern electronics industry. Salvaging and repairing electronic equipment would become a major activity in it's own right. A working Sinclair Spectrum would be worth far more than it's weight in gold.
Cheers,
Nigel.

Much of Britains electronics industry was located in new towns away from the heavy industries in the industrial belts so would it not have survived the attack better than, coal, steel shipbuilding etc.

[modelcitizen]

Originally Posted by Macragge1

Smothering or strangulation was an option, but; a) I guess there'd still be a disconnect between giving a loved one an overdose of pills and literally throttling them to death, and b) it would take too long and look too obvious - not only would the guards notice, other patients would be asking for it too.

Sensible ideas though.

that's a morbidly amusing thought: nurse is busy smothering/killing her relative, and the other patients are protesting... not because they're saying, hey, don't do that, but, hey, I'm next. (In other words, this is the only TL where a patient getting his/her brains beaten in is going to get complaints of favoritism.)

[modelcitizen]

Originally Posted by Baron Bizarre

There's an ASB story for you - if a person from 2010 ITTL was dropped down into 2010 of OTL. Our world would probably be inconceivable to someone who grew up ITTL, where I imagine that even by 2010, life will be largely devoted to nothing but survival.

that person, no doubt with a very thick skin developed against their daily grind of life, would still probably require major anti-depressants prescribed to make it through a week


I bet the modern expensive strollers bopping around would cause some minor nervous breakdowns.

[NCW]

Originally Posted by darkblue1893

Much of Britains electronics industry was located in new towns away from the heavy industries in the industrial belts so would it not have survived the attack better than, coal, steel shipbuilding etc.

I was thinking that the components used (integrated circuits, transistors, etc) were practically all imported. There might have been a couple of specialist chip manufacturers in the UK at that time, but even if they survived, they would find it hard to get the pure materials required to make semi-conductor circuits.

On the other hand, as you say there were plenty of companies which would have the equipment to make and repair electronic equipment. While they have some components in stock, it won't be long before they are going to have to cannibalise old equipment to get supplies. Also, they will have to change what they manufacture. Britain won't be importing cheap transistor radios from the far-east, but there will be more of a demand for them than for the high-end electronics that UK companies were manufacturing.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[TheKinkster]

Originally Posted by Macragge1

About 30 cities were targeted by about 50 warheads.

About 40 smaller warheads hit dispersal bases, radar centres etc.

A few warheads just missed and landed aimlessly around the countryside.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you--real life was nasty enough to intrude around here

If you're describing what was an all-out attack against the US--which it SOUNDS like from the tangential references (what was the "America message", btw--i must have gone past that somewhere)--then the attack against Britain would have used at least DOUBLE the number of warheads you've described and possibly as many as triple.

Basically, in the case of all-out nuclear war, anyone who possessed nuclear weapons was going to get hammered by the Soviets. I think an attack against Britain at the time would have had MUCH more devastating consequences than you describe. An attack of double that size or more--which I think is more realistic in the case of an all-out attack against the USA--would have turned the UK into a paved-over parking lot.

[TheKinkster]

Originally Posted by CaliBoy1990

We have an actual ex-SAC guy on here?

Well, welcome to the Ah.com boards!

{P.S. what's your opinion on By Dawn's Early Light?}

Thanks for the welcome .

Don't mean to take the thread OT, so I'll just say...By Dawn's Early Light...I enjoyed it watching it as a piece of fiction. As what would have happened if that scenario had occured in real life...hmmm...weather out here today looks rather nasty, I see...

[darkblue1893]

Originally Posted by NCW

I was thinking that the components used (integrated circuits, transistors, etc) were practically all imported. There might have been a couple of specialist chip manufacturers in the UK at that time, but even if they survived, they would find it hard to get the pure materials required to make semi-conductor circuits.

On the other hand, as you say there were plenty of companies which would have the equipment to make and repair electronic equipment. While they have some components in stock, it won't be long before they are going to have to cannibalise old equipment to get supplies. Also, they will have to change what they manufacture. Britain won't be importing cheap transistor radios from the far-east, but there will be more of a demand for them than for the high-end electronics that UK companies were manufacturing.

Cheers,
Nigel.

I think your mistaken. I dont know about England but in Scotland we had Silicon Glen which did more than just import and assemble components.

"The manufacturing sector grew to such an extent that at its peak it produced approximately 30% of Europe's PCs, 80% of its Workstations, 65% of its ATMs and a significant percentage of its integrated circuits."

Obviously none of the above would have taken place in this timeline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Glen

[NCW]

Originally Posted by darkblue1893

I think your mistaken. I dont know about England but in Scotland we had Silicon Glen which did more than just import and assemble components.

"The manufacturing sector grew to such an extent that at its peak it produced approximately 30% of Europe's PCs, 80% of its Workstations, 65% of its ATMs and a significant percentage of its integrated circuits."

Obviously none of the above would have taken place in this timeline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Glen

It looks like you're right - there was more chip manufacture going on than I realised. I still think that these plants are going to have trouble gettng raw materials, but there does seem to be a better basis for rebuilding than I described.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[modelcitizen]

Originally Posted by NCW

I was thinking that the components used (integrated circuits, transistors, etc) were practically all imported. There might have been a couple of specialist chip manufacturers in the UK at that time, but even if they survived, they would find it hard to get the pure materials required to make semi-conductor circuits.

On the other hand, as you say there were plenty of companies which would have the equipment to make and repair electronic equipment. While they have some components in stock, it won't be long before they are going to have to cannibalise old equipment to get supplies. Also, they will have to change what they manufacture. Britain won't be importing cheap transistor radios from the far-east, but there will be more of a demand for them than for the high-end electronics that UK companies were manufacturing.

Cheers,
Nigel.

ttl in 2010 would be barely recognizable for us, but, nonetheless, a teeny bit recognizable... for those that have read 1984, maybe... just in terms of the bleakness and scarcity of consumer goods... everyone looking a bit gritty, nose to the grindstone (much more literally in this tl) but no telescreens or totalitarian-style monitoring.

[Macragge1]

Operation Prospero [4]

Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders/ Here are the young men, where have they been?

I cannot emphasise enough how hard the waiting was for us at Yeovilton. No split-second passed without someone listening intently to the void that lay to our west.

Still, we led busy lives. More flights had to be sent out over Europe - finding fuel, crews and working aeroplanes was challenging enough for anybody. It was fighters from our aerodrome that were dispatched by Whitelaw to greet to the Australians. We also, of course, had to deal with the news about Her Majesty. Some...

*

Hours and hours and hours of flight. Still pitch black. Sick stomachs in a lurching airframe. Not long now - nervousness mingles with airsickess.

Travelling swallowing Dramamine.

Coming up to the coast now. Roentgen meter - beep. beep. beep. In the background. BEEP. BEEP. BEEP. Five miles from the beach. One long noise - Roentgen screaming.

'Fucking turn it off!' - a chorus of protest - 'off!' The Navigator doesn't know how, so he stamps it to death.

Wiping steamy windows with gloves - seeing nothing through the ink.

We are on the final approach now - a falling feeling as the Victor drops. The Pilot wipes his eyes - squints once, squints twice - still, he can barely keep his eyelids apart. He'd open the window, but he's not doing the landing in a mask. All sorts of fuel gauges are flashing their warnings - I do not need this right now, he thinks. Pushing his face right up to the windscreen, trying to make the most of the red dawn light.

Griffiss - it's there. God, it's there. Persuading the plane towards the little black strip. Bigger now. Stay on it. Bigger now. Eyes open. All he can see now. Hold on lads.

Tyres bounce once.

Tyres bounce twice.

The sound of scared metal and it all gets messy.

*

When they come to, it is a deeper silence than they have ever experienced. Crawling out, rolling free. Welcome to America.

Oh wait.

'Masks! Masks!'

Scrambling and grabbing - hopping around into Noddy Suits and overboots. Sitting on the tarmac, catching their breath. There is a commando missing.

Behind them, something falls headfirst from the Victor's escape hatch. From the way he lands, there's no hope.

Standing around the body, the Commando is not best pleased - 'You flaky fucking pilot piece of shit! You fucking killed him! I knew you were broken! They should have put you down back home like the rest of the spackers!'

The Pilot's brother.

Turns out the Pilot has a gun - he pulls it out and cocks it, about two feet from the Commando's chest.

'Do it.'

All his strength - he is shaking too hard but aim's not a factor at this range.

'Go on son' - the Commando holds his arms out - 'fucking do it.'

The Pilot's arm drops. Burning inside - too much shame for one man.

'I thought so, mate' - the Commando sneers - 'not so easy when you're looking them in the eye, is it?'

The Pilot is half his size, but he leaps at him, flailing and kicking - wildman doesn't begin to describe it.

'Lads.'

Rolling around in suits and masks - rubber and sweat.

'Lads!'

Punches and kicks into folds of camouflage. Giving as good as they get.

'Will you two shut the fuck up?!'

A single sound that stops the fighting, throwing the whole group into bewilderment. Staring at the radio; could it be?


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '

[JN1]

Excellent chapter. I take it the Prospero team are now resident aliens in what's left of the US?

On reflection I don't think that the Controller is an evil man. He's an ordinary man in an extraordinary situation; before the attack he was the Chief Executive of a county council, more used to administration than taking life and death decisions. He will be under the greatest stress imaginable and I've no doubt his decisions will haunt him for the rest of how ever long his life is.
If the incident outside the hospital is not fatal for him (it could be a shooting, or maybe he's had a heart attack) then I'm pretty sure he will have some form of nervous breakdown.

I think a lot of Controllers and bunker staff will suffer mild to severe mental problems.

[Lemon flavoured]

Interesting word to be broadcasting in the circumstances. Does it mean anything other than the obvious?

(I'll not give away what the morse is)

[Macragge1]

Originally Posted by modelcitizen

ttl in 2010 would be barely recognizable for us, but, nonetheless, a teeny bit recognizable... for those that have read 1984, maybe... just in terms of the bleakness and scarcity of consumer goods... everyone looking a bit gritty, nose to the grindstone (much more literally in this tl) but no telescreens or totalitarian-style monitoring.

That's sort of how I envisage 2010's world - basically imagine the bleakest days of 1945-1948 Germany but without any real hope of help; also, everyone's suffering from some degree of mental illness.

Originally Posted by JN1

Excellent chapter. I take it the Prospero team are now resident aliens in what's left of the US?

On reflection I don't think that the Controller is an evil man. He's an ordinary man in an extraordinary situation; before the attack he was the Chief Executive of a county council, more used to administration than taking life and death decisions. He will be under the greatest stress imaginable and I've no doubt his decisions will haunt him for the rest of how ever long his life is.
If the incident outside the hospital is not fatal for him (it could be a shooting, or maybe he's had a heart attack) then I'm pretty sure he will have some form of nervous breakdown.

I think a lot of Controllers and bunker staff will suffer mild to severe mental problems.

Yeah, basically my view. If the Controller survives this incident, one must wonder if he'll have the time to have a breakdown.

Originally Posted by Lemon flavoured

Interesting word to be broadcasting in the circumstances. Does it mean anything other than the obvious?

(I'll not give away what the morse is)

Well - shall we just say that the sender is fairly... interesting.

[CaliBoy1990]

Originally Posted by Macragge1

Operation Prospero [4]

Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders/ Here are the young men, where have they been?

I cannot emphasise enough how hard the waiting was for us at Yeovilton. No split-second passed without someone listening intently to the void that lay to our west.

Still, we led busy lives. More flights had to be sent out over Europe - finding fuel, crews and working aeroplanes was challenging enough for anybody. It was fighters from our aerodrome that were dispatched by Whitelaw to greet to the Australians. We also, of course, had to deal with the news about Her Majesty. Some...

*

Hours and hours and hours of flight. Still pitch black. Sick stomachs in a lurching airframe. Not long now - nervousness mingles with airsickess.

Travelling swallowing Dramamine.

Coming up to the coast now. Roentgen meter - beep. beep. beep. In the background. BEEP. BEEP. BEEP. Five miles from the beach. One long noise - Roentgen screaming.

'Fucking turn it off!' - a chorus of protest - 'off!' The Navigator doesn't know how, so he stamps it to death.

Wiping steamy windows with gloves - seeing nothing through the ink.

We are on the final approach now - a falling feeling as the Victor drops. The Pilot wipes his eyes - squints once, squints twice - still, he can barely keep his eyelids apart. He'd open the window, but he's not doing the landing in a mask. All sorts of fuel gauges are flashing their warnings - I do not need this right now, he thinks. Pushing his face right up to the windscreen, trying to make the most of the red dawn light.

Griffiss - it's there. God, it's there. Persuading the plane towards the little black strip. Bigger now. Stay on it. Bigger now. Eyes open. All he can see now. Hold on lads.

Tyres bounce once.

Tyres bounce twice.

The sound of scared metal and it all gets messy.

*

When they come to, it is a deeper silence than they have ever experienced. Crawling out, rolling free. Welcome to America.

Oh wait.

'Masks! Masks!'

Scrambling and grabbing - hopping around into Noddy Suits and overboots. Sitting on the tarmac, catching their breath. There is a commando missing.

Behind them, something falls headfirst from the Victor's escape hatch. From the way he lands, there's no hope.

Standing around the body, the Commando is not best pleased - 'You flaky fucking pilot piece of shit! You fucking killed him! I knew you were broken! They should have put you down back home like the rest of the spackers!'

The Pilot's brother.

Turns out the Pilot has a gun - he pulls it out and cocks it, about two feet from the Commando's chest.

'Do it.'

All his strength - he is shaking too hard but aim's not a factor at this range.

'Go on son' - the Commando holds his arms out - 'fucking do it.'

The Pilot's arm drops. Burning inside - too much shame for one man.

'I thought so, mate' - the Commando sneers - 'not so easy when you're looking them in the eye, is it?'

The Pilot is half his size, but he leaps at him, flailing and kicking - wildman doesn't begin to describe it.

'Lads.'

Rolling around in suits and masks - rubber and sweat.

'Lads!'

Punches and kicks into folds of camouflage. Giving as good as they get.

'Will you two shut the fuck up?!'

A single sound that stops the fighting, throwing the whole group into bewilderment. Staring at the radio; could it be?


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '


' .... --- .-- -.. -.-- '

Neato! I do wonder about the exact state of the U.S. at this time, though.

Originally Posted by JN1

Excellent chapter. I take it the Prospero team are now resident aliens in what's left of the US?

On reflection I don't think that the Controller is an evil man. He's an ordinary man in an extraordinary situation; before the attack he was the Chief Executive of a county council, more used to administration than taking life and death decisions. He will be under the greatest stress imaginable and I've no doubt his decisions will haunt him for the rest of how ever long his life is.
If the incident outside the hospital is not fatal for him (it could be a shooting, or maybe he's had a heart attack) then I'm pretty sure he will have some form of nervous breakdown.

I think a lot of Controllers and bunker staff will suffer mild to severe mental problems.

I can't help but agree with you all the way.

Originally Posted by Lemon flavoured

Interesting word to be broadcasting in the circumstances. Does it mean anything other than the obvious?

(I'll not give away what the morse is)

Well, for now, it looks like we can only guess what the Morse Code is saying and I honestly fear the worst.............

[Macragge1]

Originally Posted by CaliBoy1990

Well, for now, it looks like we can only guess what the Morse Code is saying and I honestly fear the worst.............

Unless you want to cheat - http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.html

[QuoProQuid]

HOWDY?

Are we dealing with a stereotypical Texan? I assume that we will meet him/her in the next Prospero update.