Realistic ways of the United States annexing Canada

I've started this forum in order to discuss realistic possibilities for the United States to Annex Canada, or any canadian provinces at all.


The earliest I can think of is during the Revolution. Have the invasion of quebec be successful and you could see some canadian territory taken by the United States. However, how realistic is this? The expedition didn't make an attempt on quebec city until late december, and the U.S. volunteers service times were about to run out. So, what does anyone have to say about this possibility?

There is always the war of 1812. Of course in order to get that you need to have the British completely ignore the Americas in exchange for trying to gain more control in continental Europe.

I will admit, being American, I don't know much Canadain history (which I am trying to rectify). I heard of the rebellions of 1837-38 in canada by those who wanted reform and or preferred a republican style government. This I don't know much about. Could this rebellion have grown large enough to the point where they gain independence from Britain and then join the U.S.?


I'm sure there are more that I am not aware of. So let's have at it.
 
To determine how close it came to happening, look up William Lyon Mackenzie and Louis-Joseph Papineau. I like the Upper Canada Rebellion better because it happened in a bar. Also, look at their faces to answer the question, did they have many friends.
 
If the Canadian Pacific Railway hadn't been built, it seems likely to me that some or all of Canada would have been absorbed by the US.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
I will admit, being American, I don't know much Canadain history (which I am trying to rectify). I heard of the rebellions of 1837-38 in canada by those who wanted reform and or preferred a republican style government. This I don't know much about. Could this rebellion have grown large enough to the point where they gain independence from Britain and then join the U.S.?

There was very little popular support for the Rebellion. The Patriotes had about 4,000 members and were promptly smashed by 46,000 loyal Canadian militiamen.

This though is a very turbulent time. There were 40,000 filibustering US militia on the border who did mount some minor crossborder actions. A couple of years later the state of Maine declares war on Britain (and is promptly overawed by the New Brunswick and Nova Scotian militia).
 
I don't know too much about the era and will probably get shot down for this suggestion.

Napoleon defeats and occupies the UK. Rather than become a puppet of France as well, Canada allows itself to be absorbed into the USA peacefully.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Maybe if he Americans supported Louis Riel fairly heavily they could split Canada into Eastern Dominion and West with a Metis Puppet State in the middle; they can then take out the other two dominions at their convenience. I'm thinking most world history continues for a few decades with negligible change (I mean how many things happen in Saskatchewan or Manitoba that will change the world?:rolleyes: talk about boring) and when WW2 rolls around and the US gets the atomic bomb, maybe the Newfoundland government and the UK decide that them joining the USA would be in everyones best interests. Then eventually because of a Red Scare the Western Dominion (BC, half of AB?) forces them deep into the States camp (annexation parties cropping up) and eventually the only part left would be Ontario/Maritimes as Quebec separates and splits into states/different nation/Native Land. But that's as close as I can get.
 

Don Grey

Banned
I don't know too much about the era and will probably get shot down for this suggestion.

Napoleon defeats and occupies the UK. Rather than become a puppet of France as well, Canada allows itself to be absorbed into the USA peacefully.

How is napoleon going to defeat the the UK (and occupy it) he had already bit of more then he can chew plus to beat the uk you must beat the royal navy. From what i can remember (i maybe wrong) Napoleon was never a very good naval tactician.
 
In my opinion one of the best ways to have the US acquire all or some of Canada is to weaken the UK. The best way to do this is to prevent the Repeal of the Corn Laws, which will increase unrest and strengthen the Chartists. If the Chartism turns into a full scale revolt then France may be emboldened towards Belgium. With Britain pre-occupied at home and in Europe then the Canadian Rebellions, coupled with the Carolina Affair and the Aroostook War, America may feel compelled to intervene. By this point a beleaguered Britain may be willing to concede large parts of Canada in order to avoid further conflict.

Benjamin
 
In 1911 the US Senate and Canadian Parliament were debating the adoption of the newly negotiated Free Trade Agreement.
Some Idjit Senator started mouthing off about the agreement leading to the Annexation of Canada [which it would have]. [Economically within a couple decades, Geographically by 2000]
It passed the Senate, But the opposition played the Remarks up Big , and the agreement failed in Parliament a week after.

Ether keep the Idjit quiet, or flip the order of debate, Parliament first, then the Senate.
 
If Canada did join the US through either the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812, would the cultural and language difference of Quebec (that is, French) have lead it to decide to secede during the Civil War, citing state's rights? And, if they did secede and join the Confederacy, would states like Indiana and Ohio feel squeezed from the north and the south and choose a different stance during the war?
 

Eurofed

Banned
If Canada did join the US through either the Revolutionary War or the War of 1812, would the cultural and language difference of Quebec (that is, French) have lead it to decide to secede during the Civil War, citing state's rights?

In all likelihood, short of a low-probability disastrous butterfly sequence, no. Early US Constitution gave Quebeckers all the autonomy they might desire for their religious and linguistic rights, and there was no prejudice against French speakers in 18th and 19th century America, French was the second language of American educated elites back then. The Secession was from top to bottom about preserving slavery, despite what confederate apologists may tell otherwise. Read the Confederate Constitution if you hoard any doubts, it is as centralized as the US one, but it is chock-full of clausles to enshrine and protect slavery. Quebec and the other French-speaking or mixed states north of the Great Lakes would be of one mind with the rest of the North about preserving the Union and crushing slavery.
 
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The key to the USA peacefully annexing Canada is a German victory in the Battle of the Marne in 1914.

Don't know WWI Western Front in 1914 well enough, but here goes. The German offensive goes off as in OTL, but in TTL it's like 1940 26 years early. The Belgians fall apart very quickly. The British and French arrive in pieces and are defeated in detail in Flanders. The French are actually more successful with Plan XVI than in OTL, which just means they get a bit father away from the action by driving deeper into Alsace and Lorraine. The Germans sweep down, and, as in OTL, the French create their 6th Army to defend Paris. The Germans are in better shape than in OTL, and the Allies have less on their right flank, so the Germans win the Marne.

All is not well, however. This is not 1940. The French retreat into Paris, screaming defiance at the Bosche. The BEF and some other French forces reform along the Seine, and the French pull back from Alsace. The Western Front stablizes - at one point the line actually runs through the Paris city limits - into the trench warfare we all know and love.

Rather more of France - and the French population - is occupied by the Germans, and Paris becomes TTL's Verdun, Ypres and Passchendale all rolled into one. The Germans HAVE to have it. The French MUST keep it. Military logic (never a strong suit for either side in WWI to begin with) is completely abandoned in the name of PARIS!

With more of France occupied, the British (and Commonwealth) are forced to field larger ground forces in France. This butterflies away Gallapoli (the British are content to contain the Ottomans in the Med), but does nothing to curb Churchill's ambitions or the legimate strategic need to get aid to Russia.

Churchill concieves a bold plan. Seize Schleswig-Holstein! The idea being that several benefits would occur:
1. The Jutland peninisula can be held with relatively small numbers of troops - Trench warefare has proven the power of the defense.
2. It will open Baltic to Allied shipping - aid to Russia.
3. It will draw the High Seas Fleet out into the open where the Grand Fleet can engage - and destroy - it.
4. It will serve as an Allied beachead on Imperial German soil, giving a propaganda front to counteract Paris.

The Imperial War Council of Britain laughs this plan off, until 1917. By 1917 it is clear things are Not Going Well. Jutland and the Zimmermann Telegraph have been butterflied away. The Kaiser is unwilling to risk his pretty ships when things are going well on land. Italy is neutral, the Austrians are suffering, but holding against the Russians. Russia is visibly wilting, and in their mania to hold Paris, the French are giving ground in other sectors. The only strategic asset left is the RN, and it's time to use it!

With America firmly neutral, the British decide on a toss of the dice. In July 1917, the RN sorties into the North Sea. It is a disaster. The Germans got wind of the plan, and were waiting with Uboats, minefields, the High Seas Fleet and even bomb-carrying Zepplins. The British Fleet is trashed; the troops never make it ashore, and the whole thing is called off.

The disasterous operation coincides with the fall of Paris to German infiltration tactics, and Russia's descent into Civil War. On November 11th, 1917, the guns fall silent, and The Allies are forced to the negotiating table.

The Germans are harsh. They annex Belgium, get the Congo, and some reparations. They also get some choice bits of the British and French Empires. Malta, Madagascar, the Falklands, Jamaica, and Halifax and Nova Scotia, to name a few.

At this point, things get strange. As the terms are published, the United States suddenly stops navel-gazing and perks up. The German ambassador in Washington DC is informed that any transfer of soverienty in the New World would violate the Monroe Doctrine. The Germans, a whole lot less interested in what the US thinks now that the war is over, politely inform the US to Sod Off. Oh, sorry, that vocabulary is for Brits. Piss Off is perhaps more appropriate for Americans. When this is reported in the Hearst papers, it's like the Red Scare 40 years early. Wilson is under pressure - Action Must Be Taken to Prevent the Surrender of North America to the Barbaric Mustached Germans!

The Canadians are aghast at this, but they lack the power to say anything. The Germans load some troops up, and set sail for the New World. Wilson - AMBTPSNABMG - firmly in mind, decides that no, this will not happen.

And then the USN sorties. Though no where near the size of the prewar RN or SHF, the alt-Jutland devastated both fleets, and the USN is now bigger than the HSF. The Kasier, flush with victory is not prepared to have His Navy back down to a country that, in the words of one soon-to-be-infamous German NCO, didn't have a big enough army for a good German parade.

Things look headed for a showdown when cooler heads prevail. Willy II is not informed when the Germans approach the British with a way out. No one (besides Willy II) in Germany wanted another war. Britain is strapped for cash, and the Germans don't want a war with the US. The Germans, therefore would not consider a breach of the terms of the treaty is Britain sold Canada to the United States, including Halifax and Nova Scotia.

The Canadians are aghast at this, and it isn't really legal given the Dominion Act of 1867, but becoming a part of the USA is preferrable to German occupation.

So, for the price of $1 Billion (quite the sum in 1917), the USA buys Canada. The USN and HSF do not confront each other, and the USA doubles in size. Willy II is thrown into a rage by this, but he still contents himself with Jamaica and his other spoils, so gets over it.

How's this?

Mike
 
Pretty much utterly implausible, starting with the idea of the British invading Schleswig-Holstein, Germany demanding parts of Canada or the US invading Canada.
 
Pretty much utterly implausible, starting with the idea of the British invading Schleswig-Holstein, Germany demanding parts of Canada or the US invading Canada.

Not sure where you got the whole 'US invades Canada' part from my post.

OK - taking away the sillier parts of my post, it boils down to the Germans win WWI pretty overwhelmingly, and trashes the RN in the process. That's not ASB (well, less ASB than the unmentionable sea mammal).

As part of the alt-Versailles, Germany demands territory - just as the allies did in OTL. Canada may seems a bit abroad for this, but I will mention that the allies broke up Germany as well - East Prussia and all that in OTL.

Given that, and a neutral USA, why is the USA buying Canada so implausible? Canada LOST this alt-WWI. It - and the British - are deeply in hock to the Germans (reparations). Canadian national identity was pretty strong (they are, after all, the world's first anti-Americans), but after this alt-WWI catastrophe, things are grim. If given the choice of partial German occupation, and decades of ruinous reparations, or absorption by the USA, I will admit that absorption is unappealing, but perhaps preferrable to decades of economic misery. After all, the Americans have money, they have power, they haven't been defeated, and they are the one power on Earth that can potentially tell the Germans to go to Hell.

I think the first reaction by Canadians to the US proposal would be no. The second reaction would be Hell no. The third reaction would be no. The fourth reaction would be there's got to be another way. The fifth reaction would be s**t, OK, but we get to keep playing hockey.

Mike Turcotte
 
Well the germans don't just have to trash the RN, they have to wipe it out, and pretty much take no losses doing so. And that is pretty ASB.
 
Since Canada is an independent nation Great Britain has no authority to sell Canada in the first place, Canada will not agree to being purchased and has more trained soldiers than the US does without the 1917 mobilization, and the idea of the US telling Canada to surrender or we'll let Germany seize territory in North America is beyond implausible.


Germany has no capacity to either invade Canada or impose reparations and the US would not allow it in any event, instead posing as Canada's new friend and partner against this German threat and gaining a willing partner instead of doing the one sure to wreck relations with Canada.


As to why in her hour of triumph Germany would feel a need to offend the US and give hope for the future to Great Britain and other currently defeated foes...
 
In all likelihood, short of a low-probability disastrous butterfly sequence, no. Early US Constitution gave Quebeckers all the autonomy they might desire for their religious and linguistic rights, and there was no prejudice against French speakers in 18th and 19th century America, French was the second language of American educated elites back then. The Secession was from top to bottom about preserving slavery, despite what confederate apologists may tell otherwise. Read the Confederate Constitution if you hoard any doubts, it is as centralized as the US one, but it is chock-full of clausles to enshrine and protect slavery. Quebec and the other French-speaking or mixed states north of the Great Lakes would be of one mind with the rest of the North about preserving the Union and crushing slavery.

Moreover, any constitutional or confederal scheme for a Union that includes Quebec is likely to be even more explicit that state religious, linguistic, and cultural arrangements are for that state alone.
 
The key to the USA peacefully annexing Canada is a German victory in the Battle of the Marne in 1914.

Very inventive. Rule of cool compensates for the implausibility thing. But would not the US also object to Jamaica being German in this scenario. I know I would, were I Uncle Sam.
 
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