A different Finnish War

[BMJ]

Can´t wait for the third day of the battle.

[mattep74]

Will be intresting to see the casuality numbers for this battle.

High watermark for Napoleon perhaps?

[von Adler]

1811-08-17, during the night.
Reinforcements for both sides have kept arriving during the night, and the area is dotted with campfires like the stars of the clear summer sky above. The field is calm except for the occassional attempted raid by irregular Russian cavalry and the constant arrival of more men.

Napoleon himself arrives during the night, holding a meeting with his Corps commanders and scolding Ney for his lacklustre attacks during the day before. Ney defends himself that his forces had been engaged the full day before and were tired, also placing blame on the Württembergers who refused to attack. Napoleon is furious at the presence of the Duke of Württemberg and the Prussian battalion, as it is a constant reminder of the headache of German nationalism and constant small needlepricks against the French there. Regardless, Napoleon surveys the situation and reports from his scouts and light cavalry that much of the Russian army is concentrating in front of him. Finally, he'll have his decisive battle!

On the other side, de Tolly has arrived with substantial Russian reinforcements. As far as he's concerned, the battle is already won. Bagration have held the lines, and allowed the Russians to slip out of the vicous battle of manouvre conducted by the various French Corps. The regular Russian cavalry have arrived in the field, the irregulars can take care of themselves, and the 1. and 2. Army have a clear path of retreat eastwards. Bagration's forces are order to march east during the night, while the 4. Infantry Corps, under Major General Shuvalov are ordered to assume the positions held by Bagration's men to cover the retreat of the rest of the army. In simple terms, de Tolly wants to keep playing cat and mice with the French army. Taking a clue from his fighting with Sandels in Finland, he knows that time is on his side - the French will get weaker, weaker and even weaker with time, while his forces can count on supplies, reinforcements and growing strength with time. As long as he keeps his army in the field, the French will need to concentrate to be able to meet him if he would turn around. That way they will sufffer from the lack of supplies, and can affect only a small area of the huge Russian motherland.

By sunrise, the French line up, ready for battle, more than 120 000 strong, only to find that they face less than 18 000 Russians, supported by about 5 000 men from de Tolly's cavalry and a host of opolcheniye (peasant militia) and irregular cavalry swarming about the French rear.

At the same time, the city of Smolensk is burning crisply. The large supply depot, and the city itself has been put to the torch by Russian sappers and engineers, and the bridges are being blown, except one.

[Uff Da the optimist]

Originally Posted by von Adler

For what seems like an eternity both sides stare at each other, and men's eyes dart back and forth among each other. And then, first one voice, then three, then ten, then a mighty crescendo from both the Prussians and the Württembergers arise.

YES! AWESOME!

[hwyl]

This thread made me, a longtime lurker, to register. Amazing quality and expertise, lovely stuff!

As a local I'm naturally interested in the Finnish side of things and there are some fascinating parallels to the Anglo-Irish 19th century that will be interesting to discuss, but of course the gun smoke hasn't even cleared yet! Hopefully you can keep this coming!

[von Adler]

Originally Posted by hwyl

This thread made me, a longtime lurker, to register. Amazing quality and expertise, lovely stuff!

As a local I'm naturally interested in the Finnish side of things and there are some fascinating parallels to the Anglo-Irish 19th century that will be interesting to discuss, but of course the gun smoke hasn't even cleared yet! Hopefully you can keep this coming!

I am honoured.

Yes, the Swedish state will need to both fulfill a societal contract with the Finns and keep the Russians a bogeyman to keep the Finns willing to stay were they are. But as you say, first the gunsmoke needs to clear.

[mattep74]

Von Adler did his homework when it comes to Smolensk. ITTL the battle almost is the same as OTL

[Uff Da the optimist]

Originally Posted by von Adler

Yes, the Swedish state will need to both fulfill a societal contract with the Finns and keep the Russians a bogeyman to keep the Finns willing to stay were they are. But as you say, first the gunsmoke needs to clear.

I suspect when the dust finally settles in Europe Sweden, which now controls both Norway and Finland will become a regional power to be reckoned with.
By this I mean that when industrialization hits Scandinavia Sweden owns alot of highly valuable minerals, metals and production materials such as timber etc.

Could it be that Sweden becomes the country everybody wants on their side because their population is not big enough to be a threat, but large enough and strategically placed enough to be a tipper of the scales.

This is a very large "if" though, seeing how it was the loss of Finland that led them to the policy of neutrality(sometimes armed).

Maybe they end up like every other country with "victory disease"?

Keep it up Von Adler, this is really a wonderful TL!

[von Adler]

Originally Posted by Uff Da the optimist

I suspect when the dust finally settles in Europe Sweden, which now controls both Norway and Finland will become a regional power to be reckoned with.
By this I mean that when industrialization hits Scandinavia Sweden owns alot of highly valuable minerals, metals and production materials such as timber etc.

Could it be that Sweden becomes the country everybody wants on their side because their population is not big enough to be a threat, but large enough and strategically placed enough to be a tipper of the scales.

This is a very large "if" though, seeing how it was the loss of Finland that led them to the policy of neutrality(sometimes armed).

Maybe they end up like every other country with "victory disease"?

Keep it up Von Adler, this is really a wonderful TL!

Oh, I plan a healthy dose of medicine for victory disease for Sweden. But that will come later.

[hwyl]

I'm getting ahead of the events, but I would be quite worried about the situation in Finland: in retrospect the Russian victory proved (quite unexpectedly) to be very lucky for us - we kept our constitution and began to build our own state structures for the very first time. Nationalism rose, but there was from the beginning this curious blurring of language and ethnic categories, and the language strife never approached Balkan or Irish levels of bitterness and conflict. With victorious Sweden and the Swedish language on the rise along the coasts of Finland, I would think that the boundaries would be much clearer and feelings much more heated (especially as later there would inevitably be also a class struggle aspect to them). Swedish speaking Österbotten would quite naturally be our Ulster: they would not want any autonomy or home rule for Finland. But anyway, let the guns speak first!

[von Adler]

Yes, but that constitution was the Swedish one, which Finland will keep. They will also have much more influence in the Riksdag in Stockholm than they had with the Czar in Saint Petersburg OTL.

Yes, language and class strife will be a problem. I don't think Finnish will go the way of Irish (or if you want to call it Irish Gaelic), and I don't think there will be the same resentment as Irish had for the English. I have some plans, but I cannot reveal too much, but the situation in Finland will probably end up a bit like in Wales rathern than like in Ireland. One of the big advantages for the cohesion of the Swedish realm will be the Russian bogeyman.

"I want an independent Finland!"

"Ah, and you think you can keep the good neighbour off on your own? Good luck!"

"The Russians can give us a better deal than the Swedes!"

"Ah, yes, we'll be serfs like the Russians. Sounds like a great deal to me!"

But the hockey team will conquer the world.

[Ares96]

Originally Posted by von Adler

Yes, but that constitution was the Swedish one, which Finland will keep. They will also have much more influence in the Riksdag in Stockholm than they had with the Czar in Saint Petersburg OTL.

Yes, language and class strife will be a problem. I don't think Finnish will go the way of Irish (or if you want to call it Irish Gaelic), and I don't think there will be the same resentment as Irish had for the English. I have some plans, but I cannot reveal too much, but the situation in Finland will probably end up a bit like in Wales rathern than like in Ireland. One of the big advantages for the cohesion of the Swedish realm will be the Russian bogeyman.

"I want an independent Finland!"

"Ah, and you think you can keep the good neighbour off on your own? Good luck!"

"The Russians can give us a better deal than the Swedes!"

"Ah, yes, we'll be serfs like the Russians. Sounds like a great deal to me!"

But the hockey team will conquer the world.

But if they should ever fight alongside Russia in a war, that'll be shot all to hell. Except the hockey team.

[von Adler]

1811-08-17.
Napoleon is extremely frustrated by the lack of a stand by the Russian army. As it will be proven, so is the Czar. For the moment, however, the French assault Shuvalov's poor men. Shuvalov is not a genius, but no fool either. He intends to delay the French for some time and then retreat across the Dnepr. Napoleon commits two full Corps that arrived during the night, sparing Ney's and Murat's tired men. After an initial artillery barrage by 134 cannons, the French form up into five assault columns - the columns are so massive it is almost a single one.

The Russians, facing more than 30 000 French veterans, pushing the hapless Württembergers in front of them as a punishment for their 'rout' the previous day do as well as they can. The earthworks have been destroyed by three days of bombardement and fighting, the Russian artillery is already retreating across the river, and the irregular cavalry is feeling the wrath of the French Hussars - all the French are eager to kill these bastard elusive shadows ever present when it is time for recoinnasance, foraging, rest and resupply.

The Russians do well considering they are only trying to delay the inevitable. They stand muzzle to muzzle with the French veterans for half an hour, then they start to buckle and withdraw. At that time, the opolcheniye breaks under a cavalry charge by the Polish lancers, and the orderly retreat turns into a rout. The regular Russian cavalry countercharge the Polish lancers, and a vicous meleee ensue, before the Russians withdraw, partially surprised by the pure hatred and eagerness shown by the Poles in this fight.

The Russian cavalry charge two of the French columns, throwing them into disorder before bouncing. The Polish lancers and try to press the attack, but the Russian cavalry is unwilling to involve itself in more combat, retreating southward, away from the battlefield, to cross the river at a ford further south. Had the French light cavalry not been chasing the irregular Russian cavalry, they could probably have chasen down and crushed the Russian cavalry, but now, with the Polish lancers on tired horses after the melee, the heavy cavalry still re-organising after their charge against the opolcheniye and the light cavalry chasing the Russian irregular cavalry, the Russian cavalry can retreat relatively unmolested.

A confused mass of Russian soldiers and peasant militia flock to the single remaining brigde ledt over the Dnepr. The railiungs give way, and hundreds of men are pushing into the swift river, in which many of them will drown, as few can swim. What was supposed to be an orderdly retreat has turned into a mass of panicked men pushing and shoving to get ahead, as French light infantry start to line up on the banks, taking potshots on the great mass of men.

Advancing through the burning city of Smolensk, having givign up on the futile attempt to save the supply depot is one of the French columns of line infantry advance on the brigde.

"May God Almighty have mercy on thier souls. And on me for what I have done."
Captain Rebioff, Pronsk Sapper Battalion, as he lit the fuse.

Slightly before noon, the Russian set off the prepared charges - while at least half of their force was still on the other side of the brigde or on it, afraid that the advancing French would capture it.

The bridge, and those trying to cross it, is blown sky-high.

"Merde!
Murat, as he saw the explosion.

The Russians on the wrong side of the river either tried to jump into the river to swim, despite the swift currents and the fact that most of them could not swim. Others, like a wounded, cornered animal, suddenly turned and over-ran the surprised French light infantry. There was no order, no discipline, no plan and no officers trying to restore order. The Russians were not a fighting unit, but a mob, and they ripped the French light infantryment who did not get out of their way literally to pieces. This way, several hundreds of the Russians managed to escape, along the river bank or through the burning city of Smolensk, to join the shattered remnants of the opolcheniye in the forests. These men would later form the core of the Spanish-style guerillas attacking the French rear and supply columns.

Whit that, the battle of Smolensk was over. While a tactical victory for the French, it was a strategic victory for the Russians. With his forces concentrated, on the other side of the river, de Tolly could congratulate himself on having denied the French a decisive battle, the supplies in the depots of Smolensk, a war of manouvre, catching his forces separately and all brigdes across the Dnepr. The Russians lost roughly 5 200 dead, 9 600 wounded and 5 500 prisoners - most from Shuvalov's poor Corps, which was finished as a fighting unit, mustering only about 2 000 men out of the original 18 000 after the battle. The French casualties were comparably light, losing about 2 000 dead and 4 500 wounded.

However, the Czar was furious - one of Russia's most important cities had been put to the torch - aftet two days where the Russians were doing very well and looked like they could win the battle! For all his experience of light warfare, de Tolly's strategy of scorched earth and irregular cavalry pinpricks as well as retreat, retreat, retreat have not yielded any results (the fact that the Grande Armée is steadily diminishing was now known at the time) other than Smolensk going up in flames. Bulatov was able to stop the Prussians, and the Army of the Danube have stopped the Austrians, and Wittgenstein could hold the French at Polotsk, why can't de Tolly hold the French at Smolensk?

The accusations are unfair to de Tolly - none of the others have faced the main force of the French veterans, and none of the others have sapped the strength of the Grande Armée like he has. But on one point the accusations are correct - he does not have the experience to command and coordinate multiple corps and armies over a large area.

A replacement is needed as supreme commander. Bagration is considered, but the man is considered too inactive - the Generals and the Czar wants someone to degeat Napoleon, not just hold his troops together on the defence. So instead the job goes to a certain Prince Mikhail Kutuzov who has distinguished himself in the fighting against the Ottomans in Moldavia.

[von Adler]

Originally Posted by Ares96

But if they should ever fight alongside Russia in a war, that'll be shot all to hell. Except the hockey team.

I mean the Swedo-Finnish hockey team. Then again, the russian five might give them a fight.

[hwyl]

Originally Posted by von Adler

Yes, language and class strife will be a problem. I don't think Finnish will go the way of Irish (or if you want to call it Irish Gaelic), and I don't think there will be the same resentment as Irish had for the English. I have some plans, but I cannot reveal too much, but the situation in Finland will probably end up a bit like in Wales rathern than like in Ireland. One of the big advantages for the cohesion of the Swedish realm will be the Russian bogeyman.

That will be most interesting to see! Wales might work as a model, but its relative weight vs England was much smaller than Finland's position in this new Swedish empire and I'm also not convinced that Finnish would be diminished to the extent that Welsh did in Wales (though here earlier industrialization might help). Although it's hard to see either Irish type of situation with bitter and at times bloody struggle. Russia would be a big bogey especially for the peasants, but it would be that for Stockholm too - I would be quite surprised if Russia would tamely accept Sweden's re-emergence in the Baltic region, and in that case would the Finnish border be more defensible than in the 18th century? But I'm getting ahead of the events, it will be interesting to see how Europe looks like after the war!

[von Adler]

1811-08-19.
"Danish bastards!" Seaman Johan Karlsson cursed again under his breath sweating by is oar, slaving away not only pulling the archipelago frigate HMS Styrbjörn, 26 guns but also four Danish gunboats against the wind, towards the old city of Windau. The 'Danish bastards' were doing their best to show off their bastardness, by taunting the Swedes on the archipelago frigate, with cries such as 'Swedes are not seamen, only peasants dipped in salt water' and 'Row harder, you lazy bastards!'. The worst were probably the ones putting up hammocks and tanning in the warm summer sun. They were worse than the ones playing music and dancing what looked like a bastardisation of a jig.

Well, the Danes had done quite a bit of rowing earlier, and then Johan had been the one taunting. Oh, how quickly the Almighty punished some. Sweat trickled down his brow and his pale shoulders, lacking a shirt in the heat, was already showing signs of an impressive sunburn.

Suddenly there was a sound of a cannon fired and the splash of water.

"Steady men, the Prussians missed by half a mile." said the Admiral, walking back and forth among the rowing crew. He was not lying. Cronstedt knew his stuff, and the Prussian 12pdr, a field piece rolled down to the harbour to try to protect the port against the slowly advancing flottilla of Danish and Swedish gunboats, stiffed by a Galeas and a archipelago frigate.

The Prussian artillerymen were used to be able to bounce cannonballs on flat ground even at high elevations, and had no experience firing on naval vessels out to sea, and had not realised they did not have the range.

Windau itself was a shadow of a once prosperous port. In the 17th century, under the Dukes of Courland, a substantial merchant and war navy had made its home here, and goods from Courlandish trading posts in the West and East Indees as well as Africa were brought here to further the wealth of the Duke. But that was before the new Dukes lost interest in colonial ventures and maintaining an expensive navy, the Swedes capturing what was left of the fleet during the Great Deluge of Poland and destroyed the city. The plague that hit the town 1711 had not helped. The lack of interest in naval matters from both the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, to which Courland was a vassal, and later the Russian Empire, which controlled the Duchy and the city since the Polish partition of 1795 had reduced the once vibrant port to a slightly larger fishing village of some 6 000 inhabitants.

But now Windau was in the focus again, as the Prussians were shipping supplies and reinforcements from Königsberg and Memel for the Prussian army under Yorck, encamed at Mitau, staring across the Düna at Bulatov's Corps, which seemed content with staring back, as Bulatov's strength mostly was a mirage of opolcheniye, garrison troops, new recruits and some cossacks dressed up in uniforms of regular cavalry. It was more the appearance of strength on Bulatov's part and the lack of enthusiasm in the Prussian army that kept the Prussians south of the Düna than any real activity on part of Bulatov.

However, the Russians had requested help from Sweden and Denmark. And while neither nation were prepared to commit any forces - Denmark citing the need to defend their own territory, and Sweden possible 'incidents' so soon after the end of the Finnish War, both promised to make sure the Baltic was locked down.

And Windau would pay for it.

The rowing was harder than the fighting, if one asked Johan Karlsson. It certainly took longer time! The combined Swedo-Danish squadron easily brushed away the meagre Prussian defence of the city, destroying the two 12pdr field artillery pieces, landing a force of two battalions that chased the two Prussian Landwehr companies away - fighting on lasted less than five minutes. The Prussians gave a single volley at long distance, and then hastily made their retreat.

Prussian supplies in the town, as well as fishing vessels and transport barges, probably borrowed from the rivers of Prussia, were seized and distributed as prizes among the Swedes and Danes. As most of the inhabitants had already fled to Riga as the Prussians aproached, what was left of the city was put to the torch, and part of the captured Prussian powder used to destroy the docks.

Cronstedt sailed away with another victory against the Prussians at sea, such as the latter was.

[von Adler]

Originally Posted by hwyl

That will be most interesting to see! Wales might work as a model, but its relative weight vs England was much smaller than Finland's position in this new Swedish empire and I'm also not convinced that Finnish would be diminished to the extent that Welsh did in Wales (though here earlier industrialization might help). Although it's hard to see either Irish type of situation with bitter and at times bloody struggle. Russia would be a big bogey especially for the peasants, but it would be that for Stockholm too - I would be quite surprised if Russia would tamely accept Sweden's re-emergence in the Baltic region, and in that case would the Finnish border be more defensible than in the 18th century? But I'm getting ahead of the events, it will be interesting to see how Europe looks like after the war!

Russia in the timeframe had its focus much more south than north. The Hat's War against Russia was started by Sweden 1841, as was Gustav III's war 1788. The Russian attack 1808 was instigated by Napoleon and it was only the early great successes that made the Russians take all of Finland - originally, they just wanted Sveaborg.

The Russians had no problem with Germany emerging as a great power and seemed to have no problem with Sweden during the 18th century. The Russians were focused on the Tatars, Balkans, Central Asia and the Ottomans during the later 18th and the 19th century. Relations will probably be decent immediately after the Napoleonic War since the two nations will have been allies against Napoleon. After that, the Russians will have some problems on their own.

But I am getting ahead of myself again.

[von Adler]

1811-08-20.
While Windau burned, Kutuzov assessed the situation. Despite the hopes of many Generals, the Czar and the nobility, Kutuzov actually agreed with de Tolly. To take the fight at Smolensk, with the threat of being backed into the Dnepr river and destroyed, would have been too great a risk. As the big three, Bagration commanding 1. Army, de Tolly commanding 2. Army and Kutuzov, in overall command, agreed that de Tolly's conduct so far has been correct. Siphoning the French strength by scorched earth tactics and massive usage of irregular cavalry had, according to the latest reports, drained the Grande Armée to less than half the strength it had entered Russia with.

At Riga, Bulatov's Corps held the Prussians stationary at Mitau. A full French Corps was holding Polotsk against Wittgenstein and his Corps and the Austrians under Schwarzenberg also remained stationary a few dozen miles east of Byalostok, watched by the depleted Army of Donau, by now renamed to 3. Army and under command of Tormasov.

What was in front of the Russians was what Napoleon had, and it was around 150 000 men. The united Russian armies had about 120 000 men, plus irregular cavalry and opolcheniye.

The fact that the Kutuzov publically and privately praised de Tolly's efforts so far in the campaign, and agreed with him on general strategy did much to soothe feathers ruffled by the switch in command.

The big three agreed, however, that they needed to deliver battle soon, or the Czar and the Nobility might venture to replace all three of them!

At Vyazma, the French tried to flank the Russian force and surround Bagration's 2. Army, but failed to do so due to exhausted horses and careful conduct when brazen madness was needed by Poniatowski and his V Corps and the Russians once again slipper away east.

As the French pursued, an opportunity arose. About 3/5 of the French army advanced along the old post road between Smolensk and Moscow, south of the Kalatsha River, while 2/5 followed the newer road north of the river.

While the river itself was shallow and not a major hinder for crossing, especially late in summer when it ran low, it would be a hindrance for tactical manovres. The northern road crossed to the south side of the river over a good bridge at a village called Borodino.

The big three agreed that making a stand west of Borodino, using the bridge to be able to move reserves north to south and south to north would give them a tactical advantage over the French. The forces north of the river would have their flank protected by extensive dense forests, which could also hide the irregular and part of the regular cavalry being placed in reserve, ready to outflank the French army should the opportunity arise.

Both sides of the river had small creeks running roughly north-south that could provide a small hindrance for the French and serve as a moat for the Russian lines.

To face the French south of the river, Bagration and his 2. Army immediately started erecting earthworks, while de Tolly deployed without earth works, in the hope that he could lure the French to attack his flank which looked weaker, while the cavalry cirkled around the forested region.

Right in the centre of the Russian line was a small village called Fomkina, but the battle would be named after a village behind the creek north of the Kalatsha river - Valuyeva, about 2 miles west of Borodino and its bridge over the Kalatsha river.

The French, aware through scouts that the Russians were preparing defences and sitting right were they were, started arriving at the battlefield early on the morning of the 6th of September 1811.

[mattep74]

Are you reusing the OTL battlefield?

As for sports, well imagine Sweden AND Finland in winter sports, motor and javelin.

[von Adler]

The battlefield is logical - it is where the new road crosses the river, and pretty much the only way the French can march when going for Moscow. I studied alternative battlefields, but none of them made sense like the OTL one. This one happens a few kilometers west of the OTL one through, but closeby.

Add Norway too, and imagine the domination in ski sports.