Challenge: HMS Hood, Flagship of the Royal Navy in the Falklands War

TheMann

TheMann

I'm a big lover of the big guns (as some here know), and one of my favorite of those is the British battlecruiser Hood, which sank at the hands of the Bismarck in the North Atlantic in May 1941. Part of the reason I like it is the very idea - a 30-knot vessel with 15" guns, something few British vessels (or battleships of any kind) could manage.

Now, suppose that she DID survive WWII, is it possible to have it fight Argentina in 1982? If so, how does the life of it go?
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
The maintaining of HMS Hood was not a popular move in some circles of the Royal Navy, particularly submariners who though the money could have been better spent on the proposed new Churchill-class Nuclear powered attack submarines that had been scheduled for completion in 1970-71 until budget cuts resulted in them being scrapped before completion. Only three Churchill class boats would have joined the fleet; Churchill, Courageous and Conqueror…
 
TheMann

TheMann

Cook said:
The maintaining of HMS Hood was not a popular move in some circles of the Royal Navy, particularly submariners who though the money could have been better spent on the proposed new Churchill-class Nuclear powered attack submarines that had been scheduled for completion in 1970-71 until budget cuts resulted in them being scrapped before completion. Only three Churchill class boats would have joined the fleet; Churchill, Courageous and Conqueror…
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Actually, what I more had in mind is that Hood becomes a museum ship in the mid to late 1950s - its very famous of course - and when Thatcher comes to power in 1979, she orders a substantial rebuild of the British military, both to create jobs and increase Britain's prestige - and one of the plans is to put Hood back in commission. She gets reactivated in 1980, hauled to a Clyde shipyard for a major refit, and when the Falklands War hits, she's pulled from the shipyard and sent with Ark Royal, Hermes, Invincible and the rest of the RN's fleet to go pound the Argentines......
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
TheMann said:
Actually, what I more had in mind is that Hood becomes a museum ship in the mid to late 1950s - its very famous of course - and when Thatcher comes to power in 1979, she orders a substantial rebuild of the British military, both to create jobs and increase Britain's prestige - and one of the plans is to put Hood back in commission. She gets reactivated in 1980, hauled to a Clyde shipyard for a major refit, and when the Falklands War hits, she's pulled from the shipyard and sent with Ark Royal, Hermes, Invincible and the rest of the RN's fleet to go pound the Argentines......
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Not practicable. Hood was old and out-of-date even in WWII. Even moored and unused, the structure of the ship ages and degrades. By the Falklands War she would have been useless and unseaworthy.

Wouldn't you prefer Vanguard, brand-new in 1946, far more powerful and capable, and just as fast?
 

Douglas

What would Hood be famous for? She has to be at leastmore famous than the two Nelsons, and the KGV's, and Vanguard.

She also has to be pretty damn famous to be kept when all the much newer and much more efficient battleships are getting scrapped. You know how expensive it is going to be to keep Hood in shape, and how hard it is going to be to justify that when KG V or Vanguard is going to the breakers? Quick question, how many RN battleships survived to the present day?

This is only slightly more likely than New York or Texas getting put back into service during the Reagan era.

I'd go as far as saying this is ASB.

EDIT: Of course Abdul would beat me to this. :mad:
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
Dateline 2 February 1982.

“I am standing here, on the banks of Gare Loch in Scotland. I the distance behind me you can see HMS Conqueror returning from her last cruise. “Conks” as the submarine is affectionately known by her crew will be decommissioned due to the latest budgetary cuts and will be either sold off or scrapped later this year. Just what will be done with the nuclear fuel from her reactor is a matter of some debate.

This is George Negus reporting for Sixty Minutes…”
 
TheMann

TheMann

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Not practicable. Hood was old and out-of-date even in WWII. Even moored and unused, the structure of the ship ages and degrades. By the Falklands War she would have been useless and unseaworthy.

Wouldn't you prefer Vanguard, brand-new in 1946, far more powerful and capable, and just as fast?
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Yeah, but Vanguard is much easier to accomplish, and I did say its a challenge. Besides, the British Media and many others thought of it as the "Mighty Hood", and I figured that perhaps the "Mighty Hood" could have been a tool to destroy the Argentines, too.
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
USS Phoenix was launched in 1935 and commissioned in 1938. She was based in Pearl Harbour and was anchored southeast of Ford Island on December 7th, 1941. Phoenix survived the attack unharmed and saw action throughout the Pacific. The Phoenix was decommissioned on 3 July 1951 and sold to Argentina.

Initially commissioned in the Argentine Navy as Diecisete de Octubre it was renamed General Belgrano in 1956.
 

Larrikin

Banned
Belgrano

Cook said:
USS Phoenix was launched in 1935 and commissioned in 1938. She was based in Pearl Harbour and was anchored southeast of Ford Island on December 7th, 1941. Phoenix survived the attack unharmed and saw action throughout the Pacific. The Phoenix was decommissioned on 3 July 1951 and sold to Argentina.

Initially commissioned in the Argentine Navy as Diecisete de Octubre it was renamed General Belgrano in 1956.
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And in the time between USS Phoenix being commissioned and being renamed the General Belgrano Argentina went from being a First World country to one rapidly heading for Third.

If any of the RN's big gun capital ships had lasted until the 1980s it would have been the Vanguard, and very possibly the Anson and Howe. The latter two because they had seen the least workload of the KGVs.

The only way you can get the Mighty 'Ood as flagship for a Falklands' War is to have it occur during the 1930s.
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
There’s only ever so much pie to go around. Give a slice to the Big Gun Ships and you have to take it away from somewhere else, which means heading to the South Atlantic with only one aircraft carrier or without the Nuclear Attack Boats. And wasn’t the UK defence budget shrinking prior to the Falklands?

I vaguely remember discussions regarding Australia buying HMS Invincible prior to the Falklands taking place. Any thoughts?

And on the General Belgrano, didn’t they know it’s bad luck to name a Navy vessel after a General?
 

NCW

TheMann said:
Actually, what I more had in mind is that Hood becomes a museum ship in the mid to late 1950s - its very famous of course - and when Thatcher comes to power in 1979, she orders a substantial rebuild of the British military, both to create jobs and increase Britain's prestige .....
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And that could well butterfly away the Falklands Conflict. In OTL, the Thatcher Government actually cut back on military spending at that time, including a reduction in the naval presence in the South Atlantic. The Argentinians interpreted this as meaning that Britain wouldn't contest an invasion of the Falklands. In a TL where Britain is building up it's military and prestige, the Argentinians are probably going to be more cautious about invading.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Cook

Cook

Banned
TheMann said:
Actually, what I more had in mind is that Hood becomes a museum ship in the mid to late 1950s - its very famous of course - and when Thatcher comes to power in 1979, she orders a substantial rebuild of the British military, both to create jobs and increase Britain's prestige - and one of the plans is to put Hood back in commission.
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I know I’m being picky but wasn’t Maggie trying to reduce Britain’s National Debt and balance the budget at the time?
 

Cockroach

TheMann said:
Now, suppose that she DID survive WWII, is it possible to have it fight Argentina in 1982? If so, how does the life of it go?
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Fight? Unlikely... IF the poms still had a comissioned BB sitting round it'd either be KGV or Vanguard.
Be a flag ship during said war? Take a similar path to HMS Victory.

Off cause, there's another option: have her laid up for a few years post war and then generate an alternate Falklands War in the 1950s...
 

Cockroach

Douglas said:
What would Hood be famous for? She has to be at leastmore famous than the two Nelsons, and the KGV's, and Vanguard.
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Easy... Well, beating the Nelsons and a few of the KGVs at any rate: have a few shells take different trajectories to OTL and have Bis go bang rather than 'ood. Dump that ontop of the Hood's (overblown?) reputation and maybe throw in another few engagement later in the war (Have her stand in for DoY when Scharnorst went down? Send her to the Med... extra fast unit forces the Italians to stand and fight when they don't want to?).
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
If you take her to full museum ship bringing her back is impractical. Engine interior parts rust, freeze up as do the other mechanical bits.

The Iowas that have been farmed out cost a fortune for this very reason. The Congress made it part of the law that allowed the use of the ships as museums that the ships have to be maintained in reactivation condition. This means regular overhauls, engine work, and upkeep in virtually every compartment.

I can't see anyone but the U.S., with its massive defense budget being able to keep a BB in combat restorable condition for decades. I can't see any other Legislative body on the Planet requiring a foundation to keep a 50,000 ton warship in operable condition "just in case".
 

Russell

In all honesty I odn't see Hood, even if she survived the war as a museum then been reactivated for combat during the Falklands she would be little more than a thorn in the side of the navy - old, falling appart, obsolete. She'd be difficult to maintain and I doubt - despite the size of her 15" guns - that there is anythingshe could do that the type 42's could not.

And can you imagine, the Argentinians would just spend all of their time trying to sink her - imagine the loss of morale that would cause in Britain.

The only way I can see Britain maintaining any battleships is to have the immediate post war govenment keep all the KGV's and or Vanguard in reserve, rather than scrapping them. Then, in the 1970/1980's, in line with Reagans 600 Ship navy, have Britain do something similar and reactivate some of the ships. Even then, I doubt that they would be all that useful. Battlships are, and have been for some time now, largely obsolete.

Russell
 
RogueBeaver

RogueBeaver

Yes: she'd have to be retrofitted with SAM & AAA. I wonder if an Exocet would have the same effect as a 15 inch shell, or perhaps a 1000 lb iron bomb?
 

zoomar

I don't know whether or not this thread has morphed into an "any old RN Battleship survives and is refurbished for use in the Falklands" or still is about Hood, but I agree with everything CalBear says.

Also, IF the UK did this, I'd certainly agree that this would have to happen in the context of Vanguard - or more hypothetically yet - one of the stillborn Lion-class ships. As others have stated Hood would be a non-starter.

Is there any possible way, in the spirit of the Anglo-American special relationship, that the the UK and USA might reach some sort of bizarre agreement that allowed for funded preservation of Vanguard as a reserve ship in Canada or the Bahamas with the understanding that either the US or UK could reactivate her in time of need? This would take some major changes in a lot of attitudes and consideration of what to do about the 15' guns, but hey.
 
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