Different Unifications of Germany?

What would need to happen to cause three Germans to come into exsistance? (Prussian Germany, Austrian Germany, prehaps one other)

Other questions:

What if Austria had Unified with Bavaria?
What of Swabia or prehaps anouther Rhinish Kingdom? Hannover? How could have they made their own unions?
Prehaps a Dutch/Danish supported attempt?
The Hesse could maybe have a strong poltician come into view?

Before 1900 (maybe a pre-French Revolution try, but still the USA should still form) how does this happen?
 
I’ve done an Austrian United Germany thread before, in case you don’t remember. But I’m still interested in A Germany United by neither Prussia nor Austria, and including neither. What would be the Capital? Who would be the Monarch<Royal House, I should say>? (If it is united in the age of Monarchs…) How Strong would it be vs. Prussia-Germany? Just a few of the questions that I would like answered.
 
I think if it was to the prussian high time prussia would have done everything possible to unify with in or if not possible to hold the states independent. it would be too much of a threat to have 2 powerful germanies.

if austria and bavaria unified. no problem. everyone would be happy in germany how it is right now.
 
Hermanubis said:
I’ve done an Austrian United Germany thread before, in case you don’t remember. But I’m still interested in A Germany United by neither Prussia nor Austria, and including neither. What would be the Capital? Who would be the Monarch<Royal House, I should say>? (If it is united in the age of Monarchs…) How Strong would it be vs. Prussia-Germany? Just a few of the questions that I would like answered.
Maybe a Prince-Elector?
 
denmark was a joke in relation to prussia. you need french or russian backup but the french didnt want a unified germany and the russians didnt care
 
Note that the POD can be as far back as it needs to be as long as it doesn't interfer with North American Affairs. Denmark and Sweden might be a strong enough pair to bring up the strength of Oldenburg. An antiPrussian sentiment might be stirred with help of the English, Spainsh, or Austrian Crowns. The ability to be signifigant force on its own might be needed.

What if I brought up a POD of no Prussian-Brandburg union? Would that change Danemark's power?
 
the recreation of the hanseatic league was thee northern german union under prussia. so that existed more or less.
to get enough pressure from the north i would say skandinavia should be united. that could work out if they were in favor of it.
 
Herm, pick your poison and continue the thoughts.
Ac.prussiamap3.gif


Wurttemburg or Baden would both be intresting or if a Saxon-Bavaria union happened in reaction to Prussia-Brandenburg...
 
Eastern Prussia was lost with WW1 (Polish corridor-wise) with the Duchy-bit remaining and then losing that after WWII. Also according to the map I showed. They either gained or regained Saxony, Westphalia, Posen, Swedish Pomerania, and the Rhine Territory in 1815. What if Hannover, Mecklenburg and Oldenburg had been gusty enough to try their own union or somebody else? Somebody other than Austria or Prussia... (Prehaps a 1700s attempt during the Nap-era they were able to pull off their own confederation and resist being put in the Rhinish confederation with backing from England, the Netherlands, Sweden, Prussia, and Danemark?)
 
Othniel said:
I also realise if Prussia was the strongest, why was it that it lost Pomerania, Posen, and Silesia?

Back then, these territories were ceded to the Grand Duchy (IIRC) of Poland after Napoleon defeated the Prussians in 1806. Prussia was hit with fairly harsh peace terms. After 1815, it regained all those territories and more, though.

The second loss was ovwer a century later. After WWI, those parts were ceded to the newly formed Poland. Of course it is questionable whether you can stioll meaningfully speak of a 'Prussia' then.
 
What if the winter king had won in the early days of the 30 years war. The Palpatine are united with Bohemia-Moravia via personal union. The enlarged palpatine go on to unite Germany.
 
Justin Green said:
What if the winter king had won in the early days of the 30 years war. The Palpatine are united with Bohemia-Moravia via personal union. The enlarged palpatine go on to unite Germany.

I think I remember that from somewhere. An old RPG scenario of mine, to be precise :)

1619 - Victory at Plzen

In 1619 an Imperial army under the command of Duke Maximilian of Bavaria prepared to enter Bohemia, where an uprising of the Protestant Estates General against the fanatically Catholic Emperor had placed the Palatinate Count Frederick (husband to a Stuart princess) on the throne. The imperial commander Count Bucqoy had positioned himself in Plzen to interdict the supply lines of Bohemian forces threatening Austria and Bavaria and to plunder the countryside. A force under Ernst von Mansfeld, a Protestant commanmder, laid a desultory siege to the town for two days. Then a musket ball from the defenders killed Mansfeld, placing his young subordinate, the Dutchman Maurice van Geldern, in command of a vengeful and enraged army that loved its dithering but caring and charismatic commander. Maurice rose to the challenge and led the troops in a charge that overwhelmed Plzen's defenses. The way to the enemy's heartlands lay free!
The Bohemian army, reinforced by Hungarian and Palatinate troops and a 2,000-man mercenary force financed by the Dutch Estates General, met the Bavarians in a head-to-head clash at Regensburg in 1620. After a bloody battle the troops under the command of Tilly only broke after their commander was killed by a Hungarian carbineer. Maximilian of Bavaria fled to Italy after finding himself unable to defend his country, Munich being sacked by the Bohemians and Hungarians the same year. By 1622, troops of the Protestant Union, now including Upper Austrian, Hungarian, Palatinate, Saxon, Brunswick, Dutch and Danish troops, reached Vienna and only abandoned their siege after payment of a substantial ransom. The emperor was humbled and defeated. His Spanish allies, already accounting for most of the Catholic side's war funding, sent their commander Spinola into Protestant Germany, in turn pulling the Netherlands into the battle of a war drawing wider circles by the hour. Several savage battles and great suffering followed, ending only after Spinola's army retreated into Spanish Flanders in tatters, mauled by the legendary Maurice van Geldern's army. By 1628, the redistribution of power in Germany was sealed in the Peace of Kassel. The new dominant powers were mostly Protestant - the kingdom of Bohemia, the duchies of Wurttemberg, Mecklenburg, and the Palatinate, and the influential Dutch and Danish - with only few Catholic states - Austria, Lorraine, and a much diminished Bavaria - remaining. Spain withdrew from the northern theater after this debacle and concentrated on its Mediterranean power position against France.
His presence not being required in Germany, Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden continued to concentrate his efforts in the Baltic. His army, formnidable even against the well-drilled Spanish and Austrians, was a holy terror to Polish cavalrymen and Russian strelki. The halting resurgence of the Russian state after the Troubles of the 1610s was brutally cut short after Russian troops lewad an abortive foray against Swedish Narwa. Swedish troops defeated the armies of the Czar with almost contemptuous ease, shattering the reputation of the Romanovs and eventually reducing Moscow and Novgorod, Ukraine and the Crimea to impotent vassal states. The riches of Siberia flowed mostly through Swedish hands, with traders from Archangel and Bergen plying the sea routes to Mangaseya and points east.
The world of a century past is still dominated by three major power blocs - Catholic Spain with its Italian dependencies and rich colonies, a giant in decline, France at the height of its splendor, undecided in the religious conflicts but vigorously pursuing its political interests, and the Northern Union under the leadership of the mercantile Netherlands and the great military power of Sweden. England, long a faithful friend of the Union (with whose Bohemian allies dynastic ties connect them), has lately begun striking out more vigorously overseas and may soon come into conflict with the Dutch and French in America. In Germany, Bohemian power is on the wane and a surprisingly forceful Mecklenburg (now including the former bishoprics of Bremen and Verden) is beginning to flex military muscle acquired along Swedish lines. Central Asia is largely dominated by Persia and an increasingly imperial-minded China under its modernising emperor Kang Tsi. The story of Peter the Great is getting ready to retell itself...
 
Othniel said:
Herm, pick your poison and continue the thoughts.
Ac.prussiamap3.gif


Wurttemburg or Baden would both be intresting or if a Saxon-Bavaria union happened in reaction to Prussia-Brandenburg...
Bismark gets the war with Denmark, followed by the war with Austria. As Prussia declares war and pressures the rest of Germany to follow, the French Emperor Napoleon II dies, and his regent decides to intervene. The Prussians are carved back to Prussia and lose the western German financial base to independence and the Polish territories to Austria.
Western Germany federates,carefully excluding Austria and Prussia. They form a military and commercial union that quickly becomes an industrial powerhouse. They don't bother with colonies and practise agricultural free trade, to the Prussian landholders frustration and rage. Their is no problem with France, which continues under Napoleon III and it's cultural renaissance.
 
What I’ve wondered in the past is if its possible that Napoleon, realizing that the forces of nationalism will eventually cause the unification of Germany, and that if Germany was unified with out Prussia or Austria that it would not be nearly as much of a threat to France as with, might Unify it Himself as a friendly nation to France?
 

Faeelin

Banned
Hermanubis said:
What I’ve wondered in the past is if its possible that Napoleon, realizing that the forces of nationalism will eventually cause the unification of Germany, and that if Germany was unified with out Prussia or Austria that it would not be nearly as much of a threat to France as with, might Unify it Himself as a friendly nation to France?


Arguably he was trying this; look at the Confederation of the Rhine.
 

MrP

Banned
Mm, any way to push back the end of the Napoleonics a few years so that the Confederation is more stable post-war and develops as a true counter to Prussian Germany?
 
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