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Old February 21st, 2014, 07:06 PM
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Kingdom of Jerusalem WI

What if Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Saladin) was unable to take back Jerusalem in the Second Crusade, keeping the Kingdom of Jerusalem as an established force in the Middle East under Catholic control?
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Old February 21st, 2014, 07:18 PM
Blackfox5 Blackfox5 is offline
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So the Kingdom somehow defeats Saladin's invasion in 1187? It's possible. Since Saladin is near the end of his life, he is unlikely able to launch another invasion before he dies. Assuming his empire is divided up like IOTL, it likely gives the Crusader states another twenty years before the next big war.

Saladin's heirs are likely to squabble as they did IOTL, but there's a good chance one of them - Al-Aziz or Al-Adil - will reunite the Ayyubid empire, and if so they will be tempted to attack again. At that point, it's anyone's guess who would win. If the Crusaders do, they get a major break when the Mongols invade in the 1240s. If the Ayyubids win, then the Third Crusade is launched within a few years of the defeat. Long term prospects for a permanent Latin possession of the Levant remains poor, but is partially improved.

It butterflies away the Fourth Crusade, so Byzantium maintains a united state. This is probably the most significant departure.
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Old February 21st, 2014, 07:21 PM
Sian Sian is offline
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IMHO (and knowledge) the Jerusalem royal court was to corrupt (and to far from controlling factors such as the papal church and religious orders controling the holy orders and the established nobility of Europe) and had been under a string of weak kings for to long, not to fail under a dedicated push by the muslims
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Old February 21st, 2014, 07:23 PM
Danth Danth is offline
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Barbarossa still lives which will have some interesting effects on the HRE as he doesn't drown in a river
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 08:46 AM
Uhura's Mazda Uhura's Mazda is offline
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Barbarossa still lives which will have some interesting effects on the HRE as he doesn't drown in a river
Is Barbarossa even born in TTL?

Other than that, I'd expect Guy of Lusignan to remain King, and he and Sybilla might end up having a surviving child given time. Isabella and the Ibelins would remain out of the Inner Circle.
If, for the sake of convenience, Barbarossa IS born, he might not have the opportunity to put Conradin on the throne in Jerusalem, thus the Hohenstaufens have a sporting chance of keeping Germany anyway.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Uhura's Mazda View Post
Is Barbarossa even born in TTL?

Other than that, I'd expect Guy of Lusignan to remain King, and he and Sybilla might end up having a surviving child given time. Isabella and the Ibelins would remain out of the Inner Circle.
If, for the sake of convenience, Barbarossa IS born, he might not have the opportunity to put Conradin on the throne in Jerusalem, thus the Hohenstaufens have a sporting chance of keeping Germany anyway.
Your thinking of Frederich II, not Frederich Barbarossa.
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