What if there was no '36 Arab Revolt in Palestine?
- Thread starter Hashasheen
- Start date
Possibly no infamous White Paper keeping the Jews out of Palestine, which means possibly a lot less severe Holocaust.
Hmmm, would no Arab Revolt also mean the HAGANAH doesn't get as much combat experience & training as OTL ? It was largely due to the 1936 Arab Rising that the HAGANAH began to co-operate with the British Mandate authoritiers against the common enemy of the Arab irregulars- including with Orde Wingate developing the Special Night Squads which underpinned the PALMACH- but with no Arab revolt as a stimulus, would HAGANAH be in a less prepared position later on to fight the Arabs ?
With no revolt, the Arabs in the Mandate will be much better off; the uprising destroyed their economy along with much of their political leadership (perhaps Haj Amin al-Husseini and co. are contained a bit more successfully than IOTL).
Now, the British are still going to be tempted towards something like the White Paper in the lead-up to the Second World War (to keep the Arab world on their side).
But if they don't issue a WP, that's going to have quite a few butterfly effects by itself: several hundred thousand additional refugees could make it into the Mandate in the immediate lead-up and during the Second World War (for instance, quite a few Romanian and Hungarian Jews alone could escape to Palestine than did IOTL). WWII will also give the Jews of the Mandate combat experience, though not as much as the Haganah got IOTL.
Sadly, any resolution to the Jewish/Arab divide in Palestine will still be pretty bloody. In TTL, you'd have a larger number of Jews facing an Arab population not set back by a failed rebellion. It's probably not going to be very pretty in any case.
Now, the British are still going to be tempted towards something like the White Paper in the lead-up to the Second World War (to keep the Arab world on their side).
But if they don't issue a WP, that's going to have quite a few butterfly effects by itself: several hundred thousand additional refugees could make it into the Mandate in the immediate lead-up and during the Second World War (for instance, quite a few Romanian and Hungarian Jews alone could escape to Palestine than did IOTL). WWII will also give the Jews of the Mandate combat experience, though not as much as the Haganah got IOTL.
Sadly, any resolution to the Jewish/Arab divide in Palestine will still be pretty bloody. In TTL, you'd have a larger number of Jews facing an Arab population not set back by a failed rebellion. It's probably not going to be very pretty in any case.
Hashasheen
Banned
It doesn't have to be.Sadly, any resolution to the Jewish/Arab divide in Palestine will still be pretty bloody. In TTL, you'd have a larger number of Jews facing an Arab population not set back by a failed rebellion. It's probably not going to be very pretty in any case.
I'm planning a TL involving a Hashemite Kingdom of Syria, and I'm looking for ways to prolong the calm before the storm.Perhaps Churchill doesn't issue the 1921 white paper, that killed the Trans-Jordan home for the Arabs, with the rest of the protectorete for the Jews, and set up the idea of the kingdom of Jordan.
Between 1918 [end of war] and 1921 [White paper] there was the largest wave of Jewish Immigrants, but after the White paper Britain limited the number of annual Immigrants,
Without the White paper, the wave of Immigrants would have continued for several years, with a secondary wave in the Thirties from Germany.
By 1936 whe could have have a majority Jewish Palestine. Either the Revolt would be earlier, or never happen.
Between 1918 [end of war] and 1921 [White paper] there was the largest wave of Jewish Immigrants, but after the White paper Britain limited the number of annual Immigrants,
Without the White paper, the wave of Immigrants would have continued for several years, with a secondary wave in the Thirties from Germany.
By 1936 whe could have have a majority Jewish Palestine. Either the Revolt would be earlier, or never happen.
Hashasheen
Banned
I thinke he meant that the 1921 PoD would prevent the '36 revolt.DuQ, why would a change in 1936 prevent something done in 1921?
CanadianGoose
Banned
No Palmach. This is, in my view, quite positive development for Yishuv and bad news for Arabs. Palmachnik commanders completely overwhelmed Ben-Gurion's attempt to create a regular fighting force IOTL and results were quite devastating in the beginning of the war. For a long time war had been fought by warlords with their personal retinues (I'm being too harsh here, but Alon and Dayan were closer to Aidid than Patton or Zhukov). Just look at Dunkelman's 7th Brigade to see what early IDF could look like.
Without 1936 Revolt Haganah would lose several hubdred paramilitary half-trained in counter-insurgency operations but, through possible massive immigration from countries with mandatory conscription (Poland, Romania)
would gain tens of thousands men of active fighting age who have basic and relatively fresh soldiering skills.
Yeah, no revolt => no White Paper => a lot more Jews. Maybe even like a couple million more, depending on how smart German and Polish Jews are.
Also, without the 1936 Arab Rebellion, we don't have a strong catalyzing event for Palestinian nationalism; the Arabs in the Dominion of Palestine probably just assimilate quietly, becoming a disadvantaged minority.
Also, without the 1936 Arab Rebellion, we don't have a strong catalyzing event for Palestinian nationalism; the Arabs in the Dominion of Palestine probably just assimilate quietly, becoming a disadvantaged minority.
Hashasheen
Banned
Which would be interesting to use in a Hashemite Syria TL. Thanks.
would they want to immigrate to Palestine instead of America, though? that was seems like the clincher for me.
Which leaves it wide open for Hashemite nationalism.
Bearcat
Banned
Yeah
Yeah, Hash, it wasn't our finest hour. We wouldn't even let them into Cuba or Puerto Rico.
Actually a TL where "Israel rises in Latin America" might be interesting too.
I can't see any way to keep the Palestine pot from boiling over though, unless you move the POD back decades.
Yeah, Hash, it wasn't our finest hour. We wouldn't even let them into Cuba or Puerto Rico.
Actually a TL where "Israel rises in Latin America" might be interesting too.
I can't see any way to keep the Palestine pot from boiling over though, unless you move the POD back decades.
Hashasheen
Banned
Israeli Panama? Israeli Cuba? or... Israeli Guatemala!
I'm not planning to stop the boiling, but rather minimise it and direct it in a useful fashion.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Yes, Hashemite alternative is one of under-exploited PODs. However, I'm pretty sceptical (remeber, that failed rulers of Iraq were Hachemites too)
They would be glad to get the heck out of Europe. Minchandre hit the nail in the head.
With all due respect, I don't see Jews going crazy over Arab Muslim king, even relatively sane and benign one like Abdullah of Transjordan.Which leaves it wide open for Hashemite nationalism.
Try Israel Dominican Republic. Trujillo invited German Jews to settle there IOTLIsraeli Panama? Israeli Cuba? or... Israeli Guatemala!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Trujillo#Immigration
Hashasheen
Banned
I have one TL involving a Hashemite Caliphate circa 1900's, but this one will involve massive PoDs.
You'll just have to wait and see.
Interesting. I'll have to remember this.