WI, Republic of Western Canada?

Thats right, a Republic of Western Canada. Would such a thing even be possible during the 20th century, or not. If one were to emerge how would it emerge, would it be bloody or peaceful? Would there be racist politics present or not present (Asian immigration is not looked kindly upon here in BC), and what would the government be like? What provinces would it control? How would its relations be with the rest of the world, specifically on North America? Im curious to see

Probably want to put this one in the Pre-1900 Forum. I think this just means the UK decides on having two Canadas when they put it all together.

I was planning to, but i was curious over the results of a fragmentation of Canada, say, not long after the Meech Lake Accord or something like that. Though it might be easier to get a Western Canada in the 1700-1800's, I would like to know if there was a way to get one in the 1900's

well, you could have qubec declare independce before canda and take all of the eastern provices for thems selves or allies os when canada does declare indepences it would have the western terrtories

lord of war said:

well, you could have qubec declare independce before canda and take all of the eastern provices for thems selves or allies os when canada does declare indepences it would have the western terrtories

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I have heard people claim that if Quebec left that those in the West would feel that they were basically now part of Greater Ontario, ie dominated by, exploited by, ruled over by the now more centeralized federal goverment.

I don't know how likely that really is, but it could lead to what you want.

i like what corbell said it was possible it could happen

I would think that the economy of Canada would have to be on the verge of collapse for Western Canada to declare there Independence. Some say the US would happily accept them has a State if it would not cost the US Federal government financial hardship in accepting a new State.

But an Independent Western Canada would need to be friendly to Asians since much of there business would probably be with Asia.

Once read that no one would want the Canadian Eastern Maritime provinces since they have weak economies. That they would be a drain on the treasury of the nation that accepted them.

The Quebec independance POD is the one I have been running through my head, and it seems the most plausible.

I like Metro's idea too of economic collapse; say trudeau's energy policy does more than bankrupt Alberta by forcing it to give over its oil (maybe place increased taxes on Alberta's private export of oil to force them to nationalize and thus give the east cheaper oil?) Like it did in the early 1980's it would cause an almost instant recession in western Canada, except probably end up being worse (need to think about that some more, not too familiar on that topic).

Just add a radical party and some dissent and I don't think it would be too hard to introduce an independance movement and thus create a western Canadian Republic. The reason for the racism is everyone needs a scapegoat. The French stole Alberta's oil and the borders were 'opened' to 'stabilize' the west. Anyone else see possibility in this idea?

yea i like the idea of it ecomimy on the verge of collapse and then quebec declares indepence and of the cold war was going on then quebec goes gommunist? hum

I highly doubt this would happen anytime after British Columbia joined Canada. If before, I could see BC perhaps joining with all or part of the Oregon Country in a Republic of Columbia. I can't see it being a particularly powerful or influential nation, however.

But, as for the above posts, how on earth would Canada have a civil war? No one there has guns. What are they going to do, throw rocks at each other? Whichever side the government is on would win comprehensively. Unless there was some kind of a coup or a split in the military, it would be a rather short war.

GeneralHouston said:

...But, as for the above posts, how on earth would Canada have a civil war? No one there has guns. What are they going to do, throw rocks at each other?...

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Not rocks, snowballs!

What's "Western Canada" - ? Post- Meech Lake especially?

The only people I know in real life who advocate a BC-Alberta-Saskatchewan state are self-professed Fascists.

Which is to say, there isn't many of them, so that's kind of my point. It's not a popular idea here on the Coast.

Unless you want a POD of the Brits deciding on an Independent British Columbia, this is ASB. Post-Meech Lake is ridiculous, as Meech Lake was supposed to end the constitutional questions caused when Quebec did not sign the Canadian Constitution in 1982. Quebec separating is not going to cause the West to rise up - Quebec gone would provide a lot more political power to the Canadian West, particularly since a 1980 or 1995 Quebec separation would result in the absolute destruction of the Canadian Liberal Party, which many Westerners despise. (Never, EVER ask an older Albertan to talk about Trudeau. I did that one time and got a broken nose for my trouble.)

Corbell Mark IV said:

I have heard people claim that if Quebec left that those in the West would feel that they were basically now part of Greater Ontario, ie dominated by, exploited by, ruled over by the now more centeralized federal goverment.

I don't know how likely that really is, but it could lead to what you want.

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Many people feel that way now. Ontario clearly dominates the Canadian government. While it's very uncommon, the reason for secession from Eastern Canada that's most common is this. And if you take Quebec out of the fray it would be ten times worse; Quebec is what counterbalances Ontario.
Consider this: The USA consists of a dozen states, one of them being the entire country east of the Mississippi, except New England. No matter how you divide up the rest, this state is always going to come out on top.

To best understand where western alienation comes from you have to actually live in western Canada. IMO, its not ASB to have several west Canadian provinces break away/attempt to break away in the face of an economic crisis. Remember this is before the Clarity Bill, so it is possible; it would simply be a re-run of Hitler's rise to power, only more along the Quebec secession lines. I never said Meech Lake was the POD as well, it was simply an example to show where I was coming from with choosing a POD after 1900.

It would not be hard to turn moderates to the pro-secession side if the standards of living go WAY down. My idea for a POD is the National Energy Program). Say the global oil prices drop faster and greater than IOTL and Trudeau also puts larger taxes onto the oil collected in Alberta, further reducing the provincial and private revenue. Say he also goes off the beaten trail and decides to buy out several foreign oil companies within the first year of the plan to help meet the NEP goals by borrowing cash from abroad (increasing Canadian debt with further impacts on inflation). All of this would create an almost depression-like state in the oil producing provinces (Alberta, Saskatchewan and to some extent BC), and no relief would be forthcoming since the federal government does not act--until Ontario and Quebec start feeling the signs of a recession when the anticipated oil money does not arrive. No help would create the perfect breeding ground for a radical movement, and with the provincial government not able to do much it would not be too hard to see such a party get voted into power after a few years. Assuming Trudeau does not disband the NEP either, there would be almost no relief for Alberta and such until oil prices begin to rise steadily in the mid 1990's.

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question, who in their right minds in Vancouver/Victoria would want to be beholden to Edmonton?

The chances are better the farther back you go in time, I suppose, but I'm imagining that since we're talking a period after Alberta became an oil-based powerhouse, the centre of gravity of the "Western Alienation Republic" would be somewhere in Alberta, and why would Victoria want to trade Ottawa for a new and lesser master?

If you want "Depression-like conditions destroying Canada", go the whole way and splinter us all up into several states, rather than a single "Western Republic". Both seem equally (im)plausible to me.

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question, who in their right minds in Vancouver/Victoria would want to be beholden to Edmonton?

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That is the only thing preventing BC from outright joining such a proposal (sorry for not explaining further, my mistake ). I include BC because of the regional dynamics. The Liberal, centre, "stay in Canada" views are largely confined to the coast and Lower mainland, the further inland you go the more like Alberta the dynamics become (I could be wrong though, this is just a general view). Of course if Alberta and Saskatechwan broke off it would probably lead to some very high tension in BC itself. Where I live here in BC you don't go proclaiming your Liberal views unless you want to get shot down, Conservatism and pro-secession are the widely accepted views, much as in Alberta.

I haven't talked about the rest of Canada yet because im more or less trying to figure out how a western Canadian republic could come around. The recession in the 1980's was first confined to the west before spreading to other industries, so while the effects in Ontario and Quebec would also be greater, they wouldn't be as great as though further west, and with the Federal government attempting to aid the east first, I don't think I would expect a splintering of the entire country all at once. Although if Alberta and the likes seceeded, it is likely Quebec would opt to do the same (the west beat them to it after all), and I wouldn't be suprised if the Maritimes attempted to as well (with Ottawa unable to hold the country together the Maritimes would find it hard to continue relying on such a government).

GeneralHouston said:

I highly doubt this would happen anytime after British Columbia joined Canada. If before, I could see BC perhaps joining with all or part of the Oregon Country in a Republic of Columbia. I can't see it being a particularly powerful or influential nation, however.

But, as for the above posts, how on earth would Canada have a civil war? No one there has guns. What are they going to do, throw rocks at each other? Whichever side the government is on would win comprehensively. Unless there was some kind of a coup or a split in the military, it would be a rather short war.

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Actually a lot of Canadians in the West have guns. Also I'm not sure how well federal forces would actually do since there really aren't a whole lot of them and they may not be particulaliry eager to fight their countrymen. They couldn't hope to occupy the west and the westerners could probably use oil money to end up with a pretty well equiped army before to long.

Actually a lot of Canadians in the West have guns. Also I'm not sure how well federal forces would actually do since there really aren't a whole lot of them and they may not be particulaliry eager to fight their countrymen. They couldn't hope to occupy the west and the westerners could probably use oil money to end up with a pretty well equiped army before to long.

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It is true in terms of the national military. Canada had about 5000-7000 active soldiers (not sure about the reserve numbers), most of them being used in peacekeeping missions and Afghanistan. If the west were to rise up (very unlikely unless several years of complete alienation took place in addition to some sort of radical force leading the rising), there would be little or no military forces to stop it, and some might just even join up with the revolution itself.