A Shift in Priorities

[Bmao]

Originally Posted by Nivek

so that RAST... I see what you did there....

On the flip side, perhaps John Dilinger is a nurse for the US Red Cross whose saved countless lives and awarded the Medal of Honor.

Then again, maybe that's a bit ASB....

Sad about Jessie Owens though... Would be worse to find him beside a teenage guerilla named Jack Roosevelt Robinson...


In the big picture though, all that the Grunts have done is to drag the fight on longer with very little being accomplished.

[ANARCHY_4_ALL]

Originally Posted by Bmao

On the flip side, perhaps John Dilinger is a nurse for the US Red Cross whose saved countless lives and awarded the Medal of Honor.

Then again, maybe that's a bit ASB....

Sad about Jessie Owens though... Would be worse to find him beside a teenage guerilla named Jack Roosevelt Robinson...


In the big picture though, all that the Grunts have done is to drag the fight on longer with very little being accomplished.

Last I heard Dillinger was in prison in Illinois I think... or was it Indiana, I think it was.

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by Expat

How willing will the colonies be? Well, we've heard rumblings from Nigeria, where the experiment might work. The children of the elite are enamored with socialism. If the socialists try to elevate the lower class wholesale, it'll fail. If they tell those Anglicized children of chieftans that they're the first Controller class, I can see it working.

Probably the British Empire is much reduced anyway. Rhodesia and adjacent territories are surrounded by Mittelafrika, the South African Union and Portuguese colonies. The first two won't cooperate that much with white colonial masters, the later won't cooperate much with socialists IMHO. Kenia would be interesting. Somaliland might have been given up - it's rather worthless anyway and the Suez channel is lost already. No need to rule the Red Sea anymore.

The Pacific islands are probably lost to Australia and New Zeland.

[rast]

Man is like a banana: when he leaves the bunch, he gets skinned.
(American proverb)

Not all bikers had obeyed to Omar Bradley’s call to go east. Carl Doherty’s little gang had gone hiding in the mountains and valleys north of Salt River. – When they finally had returned, they had found their ranch burnt down to the ground; a genuine farewell fireworks delivered by the parting grunts. But Carl, who had expected some kind of payback from Bradley’s lot, had already identified new quarters. There was a modest estate recently built by some religious muddleheads on a ridge above San Pedro River. The devout believers had quickly been rounded up. Bobby and Ben had driven them right into the middle of Sonora Desert – and had abandoned them. If their God choose to let them survive, fine; if not – hard luck…

Once Bradley and his henchmen were gone, there would be nobody forbidding them to buy cheap drugs in Mexico and sell them with high profit in California, Arizona and New Mexico. That had been Carl’s rationale, and he had been right. The McAdoo Fence was still broken in many places, and drug trafficking turned out to be sensationally lucrative. – There had been several grunt communities who had refused to follow Bradley – mainly because they had diversified into the home grown drug business. But Bradley’s goons had destroyed their fields and their warehouses. Therefore, Carl and his outfit, who already had established contacts with Mexican producers before, had been able to bridge a gap in the market.

Invariably, other gangs would also try trading with the Mexicans. But that wasn’t so easy nowadays. Generally, most Mexican dealers behaved rather hostile to intruding Yanquis, especially now that the dollar was rapidly falling in value. Carl, normally not the brightest candle under the sun, had solved this problem early on by paying exclusively with eagles and double eagles. Other travellers, arriving with paper dollars only, might have a worse experience. But Carl and his buddies, welcome solvent long-term customers, could be sure to be served preferentially.

The problem was what to do with the newly acquired fortune – the US buyers, of course, paid with paper dollars. Thus, it was important to convert the paper quickly into real estate, hardware and high value accessories, something that Carl had instinctively understood. Fur coats and jewellery for the girls, prestigious watches for them all, new bikes, cars, weapons… But where to purchase property? Carl remembered Harry talking about Jamaica. But those Brits were bloody communists, weren’t they? Getting socialised was hardly desirable. – Perhaps the Cape Republic?

While Carl was still pondering the problem, reality caught up with him and the gang. He never would have expected to run into a police control. These vultures never had dared to show up as long as Bradley and the grunts were still around. – But damn, Bradley was in Appalachia now, and the pigs felt free to roam around – and molest honest businessmen… Handcuffed, Carl was forced to watch how the cops picked up the gang and confiscated all the treasures. Only Ginger wasn’t there… But that was a moot issue, the slob was too stupid and too sottish to be of any help. Carl cursed bitterly. Easy come, easy go…

[rast]

Sure there have been injuries and even some deaths in boxing – but none of them really that serious.
(undisclosed ringside boxing analyst)

The small task force heading for Portsmouth was just passing by Calais. Vizeadmiral Alfred Saalwächter had already donned his gala uniform and was watching over his units standing on the bridge of SMS Goeben. Goeben’s captain, Kapitän zur See Paul Fanger, was keeping to his side, still dressed in on board ship fatigues, the apposite Bordpäckchen.
The cruiser SMS Zwickau was steaming ahead, accompanied by destroyers SMS Persante and Passarge; followed by Goeben and her escorts, SMS Brahe, Drewenz and Drage. That was all. Not a really powerful task force, but quite sufficient for a goodwill visit to Portsmouth naval base.

Saalwächter had his second thoughts about friendship with the People’s Royal Navy, but as ancient naval intelligence hand he nevertheless was looking forward to see the old enemy turned socialist with his own eyes. A lot could be learned from this kind of visits, even if one did not share one’s political masters sympathy for Red Albion.

The recently announced English naval construction programme was – of course – hotly debated in the Hochseeflotte. That the English were going for large carriers à la SMS Lilienthal was hardly surprising. The Japanese had done the leap already, and it was only logical that the Tommies should follow. Certainly, the Amis would also have done it, if their economy hadn’t collapsed. – However, the six new fast battleships aroused much more speculation. One expected an increase in calibre. So far, the English, the Amis and the Japsen had been content with 16-inch guns, while the Hochseeflotte had effaced themselves with petty 38-cm cannons. Now, one anticipated that the Tommies would switch to 18-inch guns.

Saalwächter didn’t think he would be able to get more information about this construction programme during the visit; most probably the English naval officers in Portsmouth did know less about it than he knew already. But he hoped to learn a lot about the ways how the People’s Royal Navy was led and how it worked under the infamous controller system.

Well, one would see. It would become strenuous for sure. Saalwächter did not suppose that the socialist regime had already done away with the notorious games and drinking binges that were the hallmark of English naval hospitality. – The men and the NCOs would, however, certainly be slightly disappointed. Saalwächter had read a dossier that the famous porn theatres and sex shops had been abolished by the puritan socialists. Well, there still ought to be sluts galore; so, the disappointment might be mitigated.

“Everything ready?” Saalwächter finally asked Fanger. “I mean for the big fight.”
“Sure, Sir. – Mayer, the third officer, has everything under control. He says our champion is in top form. He ought to beat that English fleet master in a clear-cut knock-out victory.”
“Good. – But the fight shouldn’t be too short, the men would be frustrated. Something like ten rounds would be excellent. – So, tell Mayer to restrain the chap. No need to crush that bloody Tommy in the first round; slowly, ever slowly…”
“Aye, Sir. I’m sure Maschinen-Ingenieur Schmeling, our Hochseeflotte boxing champion, can deliver what you suggest. Well, it should become a memorable fight, shouldn’t it?

[LordCalner]

Max Schmeling! cant wait to see more of this!

[Decrian]

'The People's Royal Navy'... I get never tiered of hearing that.

[Expat]

The abolition of red light activities makes me wonder if we're not seeing a sort of Lord-Protector era in Britain. Maybe this regime will be a 10-year wonder and then we'll have a wildly-debauched Restoration. Once can hope, anyway.

[Bmao]

Originally Posted by LordCalner

Max Schmeling! cant wait to see more of this!

Well, we've seen Jessie Owens as a Guerilla and now Max Schmeling as a boxer in the navy, not to mention Reinhard Heydrich as the famous gay porn star known as 'Ramrod'.

Speaking of which, it brings up the debate of the Olympic games. If I recall, the Olympics were already held in Berlin in the 20s, but I don't know where its being held in 1936. Because of the chaos in America, I recall seeing that the US had a declining number of medalists and with it at its absolute nadir its an open question whether they'd field a team at all in 1936; not that they'd be welcomed fondly even if they had assuming that it was held somewhere in Europe. So Germany would likely be leading the Medal Count, as the MiddleAfrikans would probalby be participating under the German flag.

Professional sports in America could also find itself in a similar bind. Major League Baseball probably is facing sagging attendance because of the downturned economy not to mention the chaos, so much so that the 1936 season could very well be canceled (with places like the Bronx and Pittsburgh as warzones). It'll probably come back sooner or later, like the US at large, but it'll take a while for it to recover.

One sport that could become popular in ALT USA is motorcycle racing as an analogue to NASCAR, because of the influence of the grunts, and that it would become popular mostly in the West.

[Monty Burns]

I wonder whether Saalwächter wouldn't get more information that he currently thinks. There should still be plenty of men in the People's Royal Navy that are not content as things are going, and there'll be a lot of veterans Saalwächter might meet and who like to talk to the old enemy of how sad it is that Britain has no more fleet to speak of...

In any case, it's problematic that large parts of the PDS still see Red Britain in a good light. A center-right coalition is needed.

[Expat]

Originally Posted by Bmao

Well, we've seen Jessie Owens as a Guerilla and now Max Schmeling as a boxer in the navy, not to mention Reinhard Heydrich as the famous gay porn star known as 'Ramrod'.

Speaking of which, it brings up the debate of the Olympic games. If I recall, the Olympics were already held in Berlin in the 20s, but I don't know where its being held in 1936. Because of the chaos in America, I recall seeing that the US had a declining number of medalists and with it at its absolute nadir its an open question whether they'd field a team at all in 1936; not that they'd be welcomed fondly even if they had assuming that it was held somewhere in Europe. So Germany would likely be leading the Medal Count, as the MiddleAfrikans would probalby be participating under the German flag.

Professional sports in America could also find itself in a similar bind. Major League Baseball probably is facing sagging attendance because of the downturned economy not to mention the chaos, so much so that the 1936 season could very well be canceled (with places like the Bronx and Pittsburgh as warzones). It'll probably come back sooner or later, like the US at large, but it'll take a while for it to recover.

One sport that could become popular in ALT USA is motorcycle racing as an analogue to NASCAR, because of the influence of the grunts, and that it would become popular mostly in the West.

See post 7830 for info on the Olympics. Looks like Vienna and Kiel (odd split there- maybe just the sailing?) are hosting the summer games. As far as medals go, Russia's stepped into the dominant position.

As for professional sports, pro baseball has almost certainly taken a hit due to the violence. Travel is difficult and most cities with teams have been drastically affected by the violence.

At the same time, it's doubtful people have stopped playing baseball and I really can't see the phenomenon being derailed as long as the violence is stopping. If you tell people they have to behave in order for their Dodgers (or whomever) to play, they will behave.

What might be somewhat accelerated by this is the rise of football (gridiron.) At this time it is a college phenomenon, which means the loyalty of a (relatively) small area going to one team or another. Considering how parochial politics has gotten in much of the country, affinity for a much more local team might be more appealing to people.

In the same way, perhaps the strength of minor league baseball will be improved. It was quite well-developed in this era and economically viable. That could definitely continue.

Finally, the three most popular sports in America at this time are baseball, boxing and horse racing. These last two are relatively cheap sports to put on, and I can see them flourishing into the future at this point.

[Jotun]

Just looked the Olympic post up. IOTL, Kiel hosted the sailing competitions in 1936 and 1972. So I guess this is the cas ITTL too.

[Monty Burns]

Did the Ottomans already have an Olympics? ITTL, I can see them go for it. They're trying hard to modernize the Muslim world, Olympics in Istanbul would be a clear symbol of showing this to the world.

China ITTL would also be able to hold games, but I guess they are falling back to isolationism also on this.

What's definitely possible is that Mittelafrikans go for the Olympics. There's likely a state-sponsored sports program going on in the Mittelafrikan military, and I guess the Mittelafrikans are sending a lot of athletes. Not sure though whether they necessarily go under the German flag. Once they get independence I'm quite sure they'll compete for the first Olympics to be held in Africa. That's just the White elephant project they'd go for.

[Bmao]

Originally Posted by Expat

See post 7830 for info on the Olympics. Looks like Vienna and Kiel (odd split there- maybe just the sailing?) are hosting the summer games. As far as medals go, Russia's stepped into the dominant position.

As for professional sports, pro baseball has almost certainly taken a hit due to the violence. Travel is difficult and most cities with teams have been drastically affected by the violence.

At the same time, it's doubtful people have stopped playing baseball and I really can't see the phenomenon being derailed as long as the violence is stopping. If you tell people they have to behave in order for their Dodgers (or whomever) to play, they will behave.

What might be somewhat accelerated by this is the rise of football (gridiron.) At this time it is a college phenomenon, which means the loyalty of a (relatively) small area going to one team or another. Considering how parochial politics has gotten in much of the country, affinity for a much more local team might be more appealing to people.

In the same way, perhaps the strength of minor league baseball will be improved. It was quite well-developed in this era and economically viable. That could definitely continue.

Finally, the three most popular sports in America at this time are baseball, boxing and horse racing. These last two are relatively cheap sports to put on, and I can see them flourishing into the future at this point.

Ironic considering I'm a Dodger fan. I do agree that, rather than limiting it, the very chaos taking place in the US has only increased the appeal of sports, as its a method for people to escape the problems of everyday life and is a method for relatively affordable and mostly harmless entertainment. Honestly, it would probably take a full scale sea borne invasion of the US to stop Major League Baseball from having a season.

At the same time though, the increase of identity with local entities, we could also see an increase in sporting violence, sort of like a Latin America phenomenon in soccer where the refs are often bought out by drug cartels and then killed after they make a biased call, and you'll see fights that morph into riots following the game. Could you imagine what a NY Giant/Pittsburgh Pirate game would look like, considering the level of violence that had taken place in those two cities?

Also agree that US football could also see an accelerated increase of interest for the reasons you outlined, and that sooner or later we'll see an NFL analogue.

Basketball though, its still pretty much in its infancy as a sport, limited mostly to Indiana as a regional phenomenon and its an open question whether it'll gain popularity like it did in OTL.

Like I said earlier though, the influx of the Disgruntled Grunts and their iconic use of motorcycles could be the impetus for the creation of a new major sport, namely motorcycle racing. NASCAR, for instance, rose out of the Prohibition when Southern rum runners would rig out their cars for maximum speed to outrun the Feds, and once Prohibition ended, they still had their souped up cars so they decided to start NASCAR.

Integration is another issue that is brought up. With blacks suffering far more ITTL than in OTL, which was bad enough, I envision that integration could come far later, sometime in the 1950s at the earliest, since blacks now are not only associated with being backwards but also with violence and rebellion.

[Expat]

Originally Posted by Monty Burns

Did the Ottomans already have an Olympics? ITTL, I can see them go for it. They're trying hard to modernize the Muslim world, Olympics in Istanbul would be a clear symbol of showing this to the world.

China ITTL would also be able to hold games, but I guess they are falling back to isolationism also on this.

What's definitely possible is that Mittelafrikans go for the Olympics. There's likely a state-sponsored sports program going on in the Mittelafrikan military, and I guess the Mittelafrikans are sending a lot of athletes. Not sure though whether they necessarily go under the German flag. Once they get independence I'm quite sure they'll compete for the first Olympics to be held in Africa. That's just the White elephant project they'd go for.

Absolutely agree. Though it might take a while for the Mittelafrikans to get the Olympics, as the IOC has always been biased against holding the games in the tropics, which excludes all of MA except southern Namibia (and that's not really appropriate either.)

Ottomans are a great idea, and I'd be surprised if we went too much further without them hosting. Some hosts outside of Europe ranked by viability as I see it:

Ottoman Empire
Japan
Argentina
Brazil
India
Canada
Australia
China
Mittelafrika

China is only that low because the regime in power would have to want it to happen; only real obstacle. And people might balk at Canada or Australia, but "too close to the US" isn't a valid complaint, and if Australia's a little racist, well so are a lot of these places, and they have the good sense to at least keep sufficiently tight-lipped about it. And if things keep improving in the US, they could be ready to bid again quite soon.

Originally Posted by Bmao

Ironic considering I'm a Dodger fan. I do agree that, rather than limiting it, the very chaos taking place in the US has only increased the appeal of sports, as its a method for people to escape the problems of everyday life and is a method for relatively affordable and mostly harmless entertainment. Honestly, it would probably take a full scale sea borne invasion of the US to stop Major League Baseball from having a season.

At the same time though, the increase of identity with local entities, we could also see an increase in sporting violence, sort of like a Latin America phenomenon in soccer where the refs are often bought out by drug cartels and then killed after they make a biased call, and you'll see fights that morph into riots following the game. Could you imagine what a NY Giant/Pittsburgh Pirate game would look like, considering the level of violence that had taken place in those two cities?

Also agree that US football could also see an accelerated increase of interest for the reasons you outlined, and that sooner or later we'll see an NFL analogue.

Basketball though, its still pretty much in its infancy as a sport, limited mostly to Indiana as a regional phenomenon and its an open question whether it'll gain popularity like it did in OTL.

Like I said earlier though, the influx of the Disgruntled Grunts and their iconic use of motorcycles could be the impetus for the creation of a new major sport, namely motorcycle racing. NASCAR, for instance, rose out of the Prohibition when Southern rum runners would rig out their cars for maximum speed to outrun the Feds, and once Prohibition ended, they still had their souped up cars so they decided to start NASCAR.

Integration is another issue that is brought up. With blacks suffering far more ITTL than in OTL, which was bad enough, I envision that integration could come far later, sometime in the 1950s at the earliest, since blacks now are not only associated with being backwards but also with violence and rebellion.

About baseball ethics, I don't think the butterflies would have affected the Black Sox Scandal, which did more than anything to keep baseball on the straight and narrow for decades. The prospect of "ruining" baseball- the way horse racing or especially boxing were deemed corrupted- drew enough heat that even the mafia backed off.

TTL could put my theory to the test, and we could find that every sport has a breaking point, but something tells me the insane degree to which baseball was worshiped in the US in this era would keep the sport relatively clean.

I think regionalism could have a somewhat positive effect on integration, with minor leagues in (say) California integrating as early as, well, now.

Basketball could end up in a weird place. Early basketball in league form was played and promoted in large part by the Jewish community. That's gone.

Auto racing seems likely. Youth culture has already latched onto the sport.

[Helga]

Loved seeing that cruiser named after my hometown. Wonder if either Horch or Audi got into making engines for more than cars there.

[Bmao]

Originally Posted by Expat

Absolutely agree. Though it might take a while for the Mittelafrikans to get the Olympics, as the IOC has always been biased against holding the games in the tropics, which excludes all of MA except southern Namibia (and that's not really appropriate either.)

Ottomans are a great idea, and I'd be surprised if we went too much further without them hosting. Some hosts outside of Europe ranked by viability as I see it:

Ottoman Empire
Japan
Argentina
Brazil
India
Canada
Australia
China
Mittelafrika

China is only that low because the regime in power would have to want it to happen; only real obstacle. And people might balk at Canada or Australia, but "too close to the US" isn't a valid complaint, and if Australia's a little racist, well so are a lot of these places, and they have the good sense to at least keep sufficiently tight-lipped about it. And if things keep improving in the US, they could be ready to bid again quite soon.




About baseball ethics, I don't think the butterflies would have affected the Black Sox Scandal, which did more than anything to keep baseball on the straight and narrow for decades. The prospect of "ruining" baseball- the way horse racing or especially boxing were deemed corrupted- drew enough heat that even the mafia backed off.

TTL could put my theory to the test, and we could find that every sport has a breaking point, but something tells me the insane degree to which baseball was worshiped in the US in this era would keep the sport relatively clean.

I think regionalism could have a somewhat positive effect on integration, with minor leagues in (say) California integrating as early as, well, now.

Basketball could end up in a weird place. Early basketball in league form was played and promoted in large part by the Jewish community. That's gone.

Auto racing seems likely. Youth culture has already latched onto the sport.

The Ottomans would seem like the first likely choice if we're talking about a place that's 'outside Europe', but still sufficiently 'civilized' to make it a palatable to more conservative elements. Middle Africa is also an interesting possibility, and like Monty said they'd want to pursue an olympic games for the prestige of it, but that will depend on the state Middle Afrika is in by the 40s or 50s.

Again, I agree about baseball. I don't think we're seeing guys like Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams (or by now, their ATL Equivalents) joining criminal outfits like the Disgruntled Grunts among others. For one, while not having the same astronomical salaries like they do today, baseball does offer a viable and consistent salary and its a business that is as recession proof as any in the US.

[rast]

Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war minus the shooting.
(George Orwell)

Joseph Ferdinand Salvator, Archduke of Austria, was known to be a headstrong and difficult character. Nevertheless, he wasn’t unpopular with the Austrians, who cherished him as advocate for Austrian privileges. That he had been dismissed as army commander on German initiative during the initial stage of the 1916 Brusilov Offensive had only increased his animosity opposite the Prussians, another feature that made him dear to the Austrians. The preparations for the 1936 summer Olympics, which were to be held in Vienna, had turned out to be another issue, where the Archduke could act out his dislikes.

Didn’t have Austria enough lakes and rivers? Why had the sailing and rowing contests been given to the Prussian town of Kiel? The National Olympic Committee had licked the Prussian boots, hadn’t they? Splitting up the games didn’t make the slightest sense! – And why was the German Kaiser coming to open the games? He, Joseph Ferdinand, was the sovereign of Austria! And wasn’t his house far superior in ancestry compared to these Hohenzollern upstarts? He should be the one to welcome the nations to Vienna. He should be the patron of the games, not this stripling Wilhelm IV.

Okay, Wilhelm IV had also opened the winter games in Meran that spring. But Archduke Leopold Maria Alphons of Tyrolia was a little bit queer, wasn’t he? So, this could perhaps be excused. – But he, Joseph Ferdinand, was mentally fit and healthy. There was no reason to insult him by overlooking his presence.

Despite the Archduke’s belly aches, the preparations for the summer games were nearing completion slightly ahead of schedule. To Joseph Ferdinand’s chagrin, they had been timed to fit with the infamous Kiel Week, which was going to take place immediately after the end of the sailing and rowing contests. – How could it be that another major event was allowed to happen in parallel with the games?

But then a letter from Berlin arrived. Wilhelm IV explained that he traditionally had to be present at Kiel and therefore couldn’t be in Vienna during the second part of the summer games. Would Joseph Ferdinand mind taking over patronage of the final week – and chair the closing event? – Now, that was quite something else, wasn’t it? The Archduke now was observed to make a volte-face – but only in embracing the games, not in holding dear the Prussians.

The general expectation was that the games would be splendid. Germany had done and invested everything to outdo Moscow, which so far had hosted the most perfect Olympic games in modern history. Unfortunately, the experts thought that the Russian athletes would cream off the bulk of the medals again. Especially now, after the US team had been reduced to something like minimal presence.

[Rooster Cogburn]

How is John Wayne doing? He'd be 29 right now, and odds are already started an acting career before everything went to hell.

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by Expat

Absolutely agree. Though it might take a while for the Mittelafrikans to get the Olympics, as the IOC has always been biased against holding the games in the tropics, which excludes all of MA except southern Namibia (and that's not really appropriate either.)

Ottomans are a great idea, and I'd be surprised if we went too much further without them hosting. Some hosts outside of Europe ranked by viability as I see it:

Ottoman Empire
Japan
Argentina
Brazil
India
Canada
Australia
China
Mittelafrika

China is only that low because the regime in power would have to want it to happen; only real obstacle. And people might balk at Canada or Australia, but "too close to the US" isn't a valid complaint, and if Australia's a little racist, well so are a lot of these places, and they have the good sense to at least keep sufficiently tight-lipped about it. And if things keep improving in the US, they could be ready to bid again quite soon.

I'd see Japan above the Ottomans - weren't they chosen IOTL for games that didn't happen due to WWII? And it would fit Japanese interests to pose as the open society in East Asia?