German Immigrants to the US don't assimilate as much
- Thread starter Elidor
- Start date
My children would be singing Christmas carols in German, as I did when I was a child.
If they have the same numbers, US culture'll probably look a lot like that of the Texas "German Belt".
USAmerican cuisine's going to be rather different if the German influance is diminished.
Not to mention German-language TV and Radio stations. Perhaps German being taught as a "compulsory second language" in American Schools by 2000s ?
Indeed. Probably earlier.
US participation in the World Wars will be different for sure.
Actually German was an acceptable/visible ethnic group until the wars. If the US stayed completely neutral in WWI or WWI didn't happen, it's entirely possible that the Germans would be a far larger, more visible, more politically powerful group than the OTL Irish, Poles and Jews (each of which exert political power out of proportion to their population).
OTOH, today e.g. Polish CLUBS etc are prominent, but the group has largely assimilated linguistically. I suspect that even if 'German-American' was a proud label that most (especially young) people would still be speaking English at home.
Valdemar II
Banned
To some point yes, but some of the Northen prariestates was de facto German speaking before the Wars, and they would likely stay that way without the wars and the draft, and when multiculturalism become in, they will likely make it de jure too. So we will likely see three or four "German" states and a lot of states which would be official bilingual. Likely which will result in German being first foreign language in American schools.
So I guess, one solution would be to have more Germans immigrate, and somehow remain politically unified to lobby the US into Neutrality in WWI? Maybe a recourse to great man theory-- an individual who creates a German Lobby powerful enough to keep us out of WWI. Maybe he'd end up being appreciated after WWI proves a disaster for both sides-- he may even end up becoming President.
German language would be the dominant language in Midwest United States including some parts of Texas and Ron Paul would be German-speaking instead of English speaking.
That is quite true - WWI really changed things, large sections of the midwestern US and smaller pockets elsewhere had a majority of German immigrants and descendants of German immigrants, who still spoke German as a first or second language. There were lots of German newspapers, stores with signs in German, German churches, clubs, religious and political organizations, etc. Without the pressure to downplay German identity during WWI (and to a lesser extent during WWII), this would probably continue longer. I agree that over time English would become predominant, just as it has with other immigrant groups.
There were "German scares" in the 50s (well 1750s to be accurate) in Pennsylvania. The English colonist were afraid that the ever-incresing numbers of German immigrants would soon dominate the Commonwealth. Of course, despite a heavy German influence in the Pennsylvania Dutch region, the Germans assimilated into the greater American culture (not counting the Amish). If German immigration were increased beyond the already huge numbers that arrived in OTL (perhaps by having the Revolutions of 1848-49 going much worse and much bloodier) there is the definate possiblity of German becoming the dominate culture in many regions of the nation. This would almost certainly effect everthing from regional dialects to the US's role in WWI.
I personally would love to see Helmuth von Moltke, recently arrived in the US to escape the never ending chaos in the French and Russian occupied German states, taking a leading role in the ACW as commander of the Army of the Potomac.
"Ach, General Lee es ist zehr schlect that Sie never understood the writings of Clausewitz. If Sie had, dann perhaps things vould have turned out differently...oder nicht. Es machts nichts. Sign the documents of Surrender now, bitte."
Benjamin
I personally would love to see Helmuth von Moltke, recently arrived in the US to escape the never ending chaos in the French and Russian occupied German states, taking a leading role in the ACW as commander of the Army of the Potomac.
"Ach, General Lee es ist zehr schlect that Sie never understood the writings of Clausewitz. If Sie had, dann perhaps things vould have turned out differently...oder nicht. Es machts nichts. Sign the documents of Surrender now, bitte."
Benjamin
Hmm, if German immigrants hadn't assimilated as much, I might not be here seeing as I'm mostly Anglo-Scottish, German, and Swedish by ancestry.
Let's see... there'd be a lot more German place names... Larger parts of the country would probably look more like Iowa.
As someone said, it would have made a difference in the two world wars, though if the US hadn't remained neutral, and the German population stayed more or less off keeping to themselves, it might make the already latent distrust during those times even worse. Secretive or poorly-assimilated populations tend to be the first victims of cultural paranoia. It might have degenerated into violence by 1918.
Let's see... there'd be a lot more German place names... Larger parts of the country would probably look more like Iowa.
As someone said, it would have made a difference in the two world wars, though if the US hadn't remained neutral, and the German population stayed more or less off keeping to themselves, it might make the already latent distrust during those times even worse. Secretive or poorly-assimilated populations tend to be the first victims of cultural paranoia. It might have degenerated into violence by 1918.
Bare in mind that avoiding WWI would probably automatically make German the dominant language in Europe and so would probably be widely taught in America as the second language anyway...
The built up areas would probably have their own communities, and the Yiddish would also identify with the Germans more (however no WWII would probably have large numbers of Pale Jews moving to Germany rather than America, though I expect their presence to be strong.
The Rural areas would be split between the Rural South and the Rural West, where German would be completely dominant. Though the fine details would be different, this map gives you some ideas of where German would be strong.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg
The built up areas would probably have their own communities, and the Yiddish would also identify with the Germans more (however no WWII would probably have large numbers of Pale Jews moving to Germany rather than America, though I expect their presence to be strong.
The Rural areas would be split between the Rural South and the Rural West, where German would be completely dominant. Though the fine details would be different, this map gives you some ideas of where German would be strong.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg
Speaking of Iowa, in 1918 Governor Harding passed one of the most far-reaching language laws, the infamous "Babel Proclamation" which made it illegal to speak any language other than "American" in public, on trains or over the telephone. This included banning church services in other languages (plus presumably Jewish services in Hebrew and Latin Masses)- Harding responded to this by saying that God only heard prayers said in English!
CanadianGoose
Banned
There were millions of Yiddish-speakers in USA pre-WWI already (ancestors of majority of modern-day Jewish Americans came to the USA pre-WWI). Although I would agree that with continuing existence of German as "Public" language in the USA and without Holocaust Jews would gravitate toward learning it as 2nd (3rd) language. I could see a number of pretty funny interactions between older Yiddish-speakers and their younger offspring who studied German as a second language in schools and consider it good enough reason not to learn Yiddiah.
Sigged! (Damn too many letters, had to edit it...)
Interesting story however. Two friends of mine went to school out west, in Montana and North Dakota respectively. Both are able to speak fluent German, and the language was evidentally used interchangably in the classroom with English.
I can rest easy knowing I would not be butterflied away (my rather dull family tree shows 8 great-grandparents with German surnames all hailing from rural northeastern Illinois) 
. I do think that WW1 would be the best POD here. That, or something in the 18th century that would make German an "American" language from the beginning.
. I do think that WW1 would be the best POD here. That, or something in the 18th century that would make German an "American" language from the beginning.