The West is Saffron...

Shortly after the birth, custom demanded that a wiseman predict the baby's future. A local ascetic hemit, Asita, predicted that the young prince would either become a great king and ruler of "the four seas" or become a supreme religious leader.

On hearing this prediction, the king determined the prince would be raised by holy men, as a supreme religious leader might wield more power than a prince ever could. On reaching his 16th birthday, the king determined that the prince would become a Jain Muni monk.

Sounds really interesting. Maybe a form of militant buddhism will spring up.

Nikephoros said:

Sounds really interesting. Maybe a form of militant buddhism will spring up.

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"Buddhism" is cental to TTL, and thus is going to come up, but in a very different way, and under a different name.

BTW, several OTL schools of Buddhism have been very militant - Japanese Buddhism in particular.

Osakadave said:

"Buddhism" is cental to TTL, and thus is going to come up, but in a very different way, and under a different name.

BTW, several OTL schools of Buddhism have been very militant - Japanese Buddhism in particular.

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But I don't see Buddhism as being inherently militant, though people are free to add their own beliefs.

Though to be honest, I don't think that any Buddhist nation has actually been peaceful throughout history.

Nikephoros said:

But I don't see Buddhism as being inherently militant, though people are free to add their own beliefs.

Though to be honest, I don't think that any Buddhist nation has actually been peaceful throughout history.

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As a practicing Buddhist, yes and no. But this gets into a whole mess apart from my ATL....

So, on to the next step: Siddhartha Gautama the conquering king, instead of the Buddha...

Interesting start.

I doubt Sidharta Gautama would be enlightened in this TL, which means he would not become the living Buddha, and Buddhism will not exist.

yourworstnightmare said:

I doubt Sidharta Gautama would be enlightened in this TL, which means he would not become the living Buddha, and Buddhism will not exist.

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Indeed, Prince Siddhartha won't be the Buddha, but don't count out Buddhism. It's coming from somewhere else...

The Shakya Empire (510 BCE - 210 CE) was a geographically extensive, powerful, and political-military empire in ancient India.

Originating from the kingdom of Shakya in the Indo-Gangetic plains on the eastern side of the Indian subcontinent, the empire had its capital city at Pataliputra (near modern Patna). The Empire was founded in 515 BCE by Prince Siddhartha Gautama, who slowly and carefully expanded his power westwards across central and western India. By 500 BCE the empire had occupied most of Northwestern India.
Exerpt from the Wikipedia entry on the Shakya Empire

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Having set a new path for himself, Prince Siddhartha threw himself into the task of being prince. After attaining the throne in 528 BCE, he began expanding his father's kingdom. Within 18 years, he ruled all of the northern part of the sub-continent...


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Elder Smith adjusted his robes, having come come to the key point of his lecture.

"And it was that threat from the east that disuaded Xerxes the First from his punishment of the Greeks' for the Ionian Revolt, thus removing the Persian pressure on Athens."

Western Civ. Lecture, 12/1/2008, University of Chicago

WIP Timeline

This is very much a WIP timeline subject to change,fleshing out, advice, and suggestions...

560 Prince Siddhartha Gautama born
544 Siddhartha becomes a Jain Muni monk
531 Siddhartha leaves the ascetic path and sets to establishing an empire
529-510 Shakya empire solidified
510-490 westward expansion of of the empire
490 First Indo-Persian clashes
489 Shanddra Gautama takes the throne after his fathers death
485-470 Indo-Persian War
411-384 Peloponnesian war
361 Epaminondas the Thebian's Coup
355 Philip II of Macedon takes the Macedonian throne
350-347 "Social War"

Conquest by sword, fire, and blood has been won here, must be taken to even six hundred yojanas away, where the Greek king Antiochos rules, beyond there where the four kings named Ptolemy, Antigonos, Magas and Alexander rule, likewise in the south among the Cholas, the Pandyas, and as far as Tamraparni.

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— Ashoka the Terrible, Edicts of Ashoka, Rock Edict 13 (S. Dhammika)

350 Aristotle invited to Macedonia as Alexander's tutor.
337 Philip II completes the unification of Greece
333 Philip II dies of typhoid fever, suceeded by Alexander III
332 Darius subdues Egypt
331 Alexander crosses the Hellespont, Chandragupta Gautama suceeds to the throne of the Shakya Empire
331 Chandragupta crosses the Indus into the eastern Achaemenid satrapies
331-326 Chandraguota and Alexander dismantle the Achaemenid empire
325-322 Indo-Macedonian war, Alexander pushes Chandragupta back accross the Indus
322 Alexander dies after a chaiot accident, the empire breaks up
322-305 Wars of the Diadochi
320-318 Chandragupta retakes the lost satrapies
315 Seleucus establishes Seleucid Empire in Babylon
310 Seleucus cedes large portions of the eastern empire to Chandragupta in exchange for peace
290 Chandragupta is succeeded by Bindusara
280 Binduhara is assassinated by Ashoka the Terrible, who founds a new Dynasty and sets out to expand the empire eastward
280-198 Ashoka Dynasty
275-272 Kalinga war, Ashoka finds he has a bloody taste for war, and his resulting conquests are marked by death and destruction
272-252 Ashoka the Terrible expands his empire
270-264 Pyrrhic War
253 Andragoras secedes from the Seleucids
252 Ashoka is killed in battle
245 Parni topple Andragoras
250-237 First Punic War
240 Satrap Diodotus of Bactria is overthrown by the Parthians
223-195 The Second Punic War ends with the utter destruction of Carthage
221 Qin Shi Huangdi unifies China
220-210 Parthians complete the conquest of the Seleucid Empire
205 Roman-Parthian treaty
200 Han Dynasty established
198 Pusyamitra Sunga stages a coup against Brhadrata, founds the Sunga Dynasty
195-175 Parthian Empire expands northward

Comments: sans Buddhism, Ashoka's not going to be a very nice guy...

This is getting intresting.

as a Jodo Shinsu buddhist, i'm intrested in who, and where, Buddhism starts.

Fenrir_Angerboda said:

This is getting intresting.

as a Jodo Shinsu buddhist, i'm intrested in who, and where, Buddhism starts.

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Thanks. It's turning out to be a fun one.

(And I'll note for a hint that my RL friend helping me with the Greek/Roman history for this, has come up with a doosy of an unintended consequence from the effects on Greece.)

173 Syria becomes a Roman province
172-168 revolt of the gladiators
162 Jerusalem and Palestine to annexed by Rome
153-147 Roman-Parthian War, Rome takes Mesopotania
150-146 Sunga-Parthian War, the Sunga take the eastern Satrapies and Grecco-Indian Kingdoms
140-93 Parthian/Persian revolts
135-112 Jewish revolt

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"And so, with the Roman legions tied down in Persia by the Parthians and Persians constant rebellions, the Jews also revolted. At their final stand at the Masada fortress, the Jewish rebels managed to hold out for 2 whole years before the Romans beached the defenses.

But we mustn't forget that this was also a time of great cultural exchange. The Romans, Sungians, and Han had developed extensive trading ties. Of special note were the Northern satrapies, and Samarkand in particular. While the Southern portion of the Parthian/Persian Empire fell to Rome and the Sunga, the northern areas maintained their independence, and became Samarkand became a major trade center and crossroads of ideas between east and west."

Elder Smith's Western Civ. Lecture, 12/8/2008, University of Chicago

Here's a rough map of the three empires and Samarkand I knocked off quickly:

7 The Seven Major Chakras
7.1 Vertex: The Crown Chakra
7.2 Cerebrum: The Brow Chakra
7.3 Collum: The Throat Chakra
7.4 Cor: The Heart Chakra
7.5 Abdomen: The Solar Plexus Chakra
7.6 Genitalia: The Sacral Chakra
7.7 Os Sacrum: The Base Chakra

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Excerpt from the Wikipedia entry on Chakras.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Simon Christ [1], the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

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The Nicene Creed, summarising the orthodox faith of the Christian Church, a minor religion steming from Judaism, and used in the liturgy of most Christian Churches.

[1] Source for this butterfly: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/850657.html