Base Maps from 550 BC to Modern Day, all in UCS!

[Iori]

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

Use it, if you can find corraboration from another source.

The real problem I'm having is that I can't seem to find maps that are consistent, one map maty show X nation while another does'nt and yet another will show it, but with different borders, all for the same year.

I've actually resorted to using a mixture of Robreto's maps, BG's maps (for the two years they show) and two other maps.

[SilverPhantom2]

Originally Posted by Iori

The real problem I'm having is that I can't seem to find maps that are consistent, one map maty show X nation while another does'nt and yet another will show it, but with different borders, all for the same year.

I've actually resorted to using a mixture of Robreto's maps, BG's maps (for the two years they show) and two other maps.

I guess you just reach a point in history where the historians can't really decide who needs to be counted on the map and who doesn't. The "Aztec Empire" is usually labelled, but few make the distinction what the Mexica tribe actually controls. Which African tribes should be represented and such are probably worth a whole different "UCS Conference."

[Iori]

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

I guess you just reach a point in history where the historians can't really decide who needs to be counted on the map and who doesn't. The "Aztec Empire" is usually labelled, but few make the distinction what the Mexica tribe actually controls. Which African tribes should be represented and such are probably worth a whole different "UCS Conference."

Indeed, I've decided to just be pragmatic and do it as best as possible.

One of the real problems I've found with Africa is that their is so little information, partially do it being Africa (thus the information is harder to find) but also do to the fact alot of them passed down history orally.
I'd actualy wanted to add the Sao Civilization to the map I'm currently on (600 CE), but their's virtually no information on them, so I can't.

[Iori]

Looking for some feedback on something, basically if the borders as shown below look correct, the below being Old Great Bulgaria;

[Diogenes]

Just thought I'd put this up, for your consideration - 218 BC, just before the outbreak of the Second Punic War. I took the liberty of assigning pre-existing colors to some of the tribes and kingdoms, but all in all it doesn't look terribly awful. At least, to me - feedback would be nice.

[SilverPhantom2]

Originally Posted by Iori

Indeed, I've decided to just be pragmatic and do it as best as possible.

One of the real problems I've found with Africa is that their are so little information, partially do it being Africa (thus the information is harder to find) but also do to the fact alot of them passed down history orally.
I'd actualy wanted to add the Sao Civilization to the map I'm currently on (600 CE), but their's virtually no information on them, so I can't.

True, if our goal is pragmatism, then the most important nations would be our chosen UCS colors. So Mali's predecessor would be Songhai, and thus receive their color. Whatever definition historians would use as a "nation" for a specific civilization should count, yes?

So when deciding which states should count in say Sinic Civilization, we'd use nations that could claim to be nations as equally as China could.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

True, if our goal is pragmatism, then the most important nations would be our chosen UCS colors. So Mali's predecessor would be Songhai, and thus receive their color. Whatever definition historians would use as a "nation" for a specific civilization should count, yes?

So when deciding which states should count in say Sinic Civilization, we'd use nations that could claim to be nations as equally as China could.

Well I go by the powers and non-contiguous natins having colors, though by pragmatism I was eaning adding nations that their's enough information to actually know enough about to add.

As for China, honestly I'm just going by what the original series has since Chinese history, beyond a general knowledge, is'nt something I'm good at.

[Basileus Giorgios]

You're no doubt aware of these maps, Iori, but they'll be a huge help to you I think nonetheless. Enjoy.

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/maps.html

[SilverPhantom2]

Originally Posted by Iori

Well I go by the powers and non-contiguous natins having colors, though by pragmatism I was eaning adding nations that their's enough information to actually know enough about to add.

As for China, honestly I'm just going by what the original series has since Chinese history, beyond a general knowledge, is'nt something I'm good at.

Well it was just an example. But honestly, as much Chinese history that I've read is stuck somewhere between warlords and Dynasties ruling the whole place. It'd take another UCS conference to decide how many colours would be needed for the different Chinese Dynasties.

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

Well it was just an example. But honestly, as much Chinese history that I've read is stuck somewhere between warlords and Dynasties ruling the whole place. It'd take another UCS conference to decide how many colours would be needed for the different Chinese Dynasties.

My suggestion: Dotted line borders between warlords (as has been suggested for seceeding states in a war) either coloured in block Chinese Green, or white with a 'de jure' chinese green line around the lot.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

You're no doubt aware of these maps, Iori, but they'll be a huge help to you I think nonetheless. Enjoy.

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/maps.html

I've been using those maps as a source, yep, along with some others.

I do wish they made it more clear what was a state-society and what was just a settle proto-state society.

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

Well it was just an example. But honestly, as much Chinese history that I've read is stuck somewhere between warlords and Dynasties ruling the whole place. It'd take another UCS conference to decide how many colours would be needed for the different Chinese Dynasties.

Yeah, which is why I just use the old maps (with soe border changes for accuracy), easier that way.

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

My suggestion: Dotted line borders between warlords (as has been suggested for seceeding states in a war) either coloured in block Chinese Green, or white with a 'de jure' chinese green line around the lot.

That is what's done (black dotted-luine on Chinese green) for the warring-states period.

[Iori]

Something else I've been considering.

On Roberto's maps he shows the Coles Creek Culture as a polity, however it did'nt even exhibit full chieftan-level political development (let alone actual state-society level) by the end of the cultural period in 1,000 CE.

As such I'm not really sure it should be shown on the maps.

[SilverPhantom2]

Originally Posted by Iori

Something else I've been considering.

On Roberto's maps he shows the Coles Creek Culture as a polity, however it did'nt even exhibit full chieftan-level political development (let alone actual state-society level) by the end of the cultural period in 1,000 CE.

As such I'm not really sure it should be shown on the maps.

True. It's kind of hard to show any nations with modern equivalents at that time since they're usually tiny ass states.

Also, can I just say I'm unhappy with the Chinese colors of green and pink. Neither has relevance to China at all. And now that we're looking at changing colours based on their country's significance, China's important colours are gold and red. Essentially Russia's original UCS colours. Since Russia is apparently becoming green (a decision I abhor) can we at least correct China?

[Iori]

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

True. It's kind of hard to show any nations with modern equivalents at that time since they're usually tiny ass states.

Indeed.
The only reason I was really thinking about this is that it's consistent, being shown (with some border fluctuations) on every map for nearly 1,000 years.

Also, can I just say I'm unhappy with the Chinese colors of green and pink. Neither has relevance to China at all. And now that we're looking at changing colours based on their country's significance, China's important colours are gold and red. Essentially Russia's original UCS colours. Since Russia is apparently becoming green (a decision I abhor) can we at least correct China?

Personally I use Green (Imperial), Pink (Communist) and Yellow-Gold (Democratic/Republican) myself.

As for changing them, well I'm still using gold and Red for Russia, so it would be to close.

I'm more or less sticking to the original UCS, primarily only adding a color when their either is'nt one fully established (Ethiopia) or when it's to similar to another (Norway, Indonesia).


Speaking of Indonesia, this is the color I'm using for it and, more specifically, for pre-Dutch states that spanned multiple islands in the Archapelago.

It alright?

[Morgan Hauser]

Thought I’d do some work on updating the modern era. Most of it is simply transferring earlier maps to the new format, but I’ve also corrected some of them in several places. And no, I'm not even going to begin to get into using any updated ucs's just yet. Here's August 1939 to start off with.

EDIT: Missed New Swabia.

[vended]

Do you know where I can find a AEF map like this AOF map ?

[Morgan Hauser]

Originally Posted by vended

Do you know where I can find a AEF map like this AOF map ?

Chris S made that one, but I suppose I could produce one of Central Africa just the same.

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Iori

That is what's done (black dotted-luine on Chinese green) for the warring-states period.

Then applying it to dual dynasties makes sense.

[Plumber]

Originally Posted by Morgan Hauser

Thought I’d do some work on updating the modern era. Most of it is simply transferring earlier maps to the new format, but I’ve also corrected some of them in several places. And no, I'm not even going to begin to get into using any updated ucs's just yet. Here's August 1939 to start off with.

Wasn't Egypt still a puppet by this point?

[Morgan Hauser]

Originally Posted by Plumber

Wasn't Egypt still a puppet by this point?

Suppose you’re right. The British did interfere quite a lot in Egyptian affairs in spite of its post-1922 independence.