TL-191: After the End

[marcus_aurelius]

Originally Posted by Arkhangelsk

I think I know how you feel...the Confederates (and French) have butterflied away the last three generations of my family...that and my grandmother is a Confederate citizen...

I had it worse: I'd be (or at least, my parents would be) Japanese in TL-191. The Japanese occupied Hong Kong, after all...

Originally Posted by scourge

Sorry , I'm just burned out from getting invested in all the other timelines he's written over the years. I still want him to update Guns of the North , Pax Ingen , In the Presence of Mine Friends and Dark Redwall.

Seconded. Guns of the North had a nice premise, but... well, guess we should not interrupt DBE's plans, as much as I'd LOVE to see how did the war against Japan go.

Marc A

P.S. I nearly forgot this TL existed until today, when I looked over all the threads I've posted in...

[wingman]

Originally Posted by marcus_aurelius

Seconded. Guns of the North had a nice premise, but...

Guns of the North? i can't find that one.

[Vexacus]

Maybe in this TL, the Japanese Empire will be benevolent to everyone except the foriegn barbarians

[Arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by wingman

Guns of the North? i can't find that one.

I know how you feel, I spent half of last night trying to find it myself, and sure enough the search function is not working...I even went through all the threads David's posted and nada...

[wingman]

Originally Posted by Arkhangelsk

I know how you feel, I spent half of last night trying to find it myself, and sure enough the search function is not working...I even went through all the threads David's posted and nada...

lol, i know,and i want my life back! lol!

[IchBinDieKaiser]

Originally Posted by wingman

lol, i know,and i want my life back! lol!

Indeed. It's been over a year. We demand satisfaction.

Oh, and sorry for any false hopes this brought.

[kevvy2010]

Originally Posted by IchBinDieKaiser

Indeed. It's been over a year. We demand satisfaction.

Oh, and sorry for any false hopes this brought.

sorry?

Sorry?

SORRY?????

YOU GET MY HOPES UP LIKE THIS AND YOU ARE SORRY?????







Don't worry 'bout it, it's cool

[Solroc]

Originally Posted by David bar Elias

This is my attempt to write a post-Second Great War TL. Below is the first section.

After the End

July 14, 1944—The acting President of the Confederate States of America, Don Partridge, officially surrenders his nation to the United States, before being taken into custody by General Irving Morrell. After eighty-three years of independence, the CSA ceases to exist.

Subsequently, the former country is completely occupied by U.S. troops, and divided into several military districts.

August 1, 1944 onwards—Emboldened by the collapse of the Russians in Europe, the Japanese launch an invasion of Siberia, to seize as much territory as they can. Although Vladivostok is quickly taken, the Russians prove to far tougher than previously thought. A stalemate begins in the vast wilderness. The expedition will end with Japanese control over several southern provinces, as well as Kamchatka, though Russia will still maintain a link with the Bering Sea, by the time fighting ends with a hostile truce in mid-1951...

August 11, 1944—The Treaty of Aachen formally marks the surrender of the European Entente to the Central Powers. The key points of the accord include:

• The recognition of Germany’s jurisdiction over Belgium.
• The occupation of Northwestern France for a period of no less than twenty years.
• France loses French Equatorial Africa, Madagascar, and all of its West African colonies to Germany. Austria-Hungary gains the Seychelles and Reunion.
• Britain is forced to sever all formal political ties with South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand, and loses Botswana, Sierra Leone, the Gold Coast, the Gambia, and Nyasaland to Germany. Ireland’s independence is recognized. Malta is transferred to Austria-Hungary. In a separate agreement, Britain is also forced to surrender Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley for a war crimes trial in Germany.
• Russia is forced to recognize the independence of Estonia, Finland, Belarus, Azerbaijan, and Chechnya. However, the Germans make no move to force the Russians to hand over their disputed Siberian provinces to the Japanese.
• America’s jurisdiction over all French and British Caribbean colonies is recognized. The USA also gains French Polynesia, the Gilbert Islands, the Cook Islands, and New Caledonia. Guatemala gains British Honduras, while Brazil gains both British Guyana and French Guinea.
• All three nations are forced to admit to war guilt, as well as pay a huge level of restitution for damages caused in the conflict. Britain, France, and Russia are also forbidden from maintaining large armies or navies, or from possessing any weapons of mass destruction.

The Japanese sign a separate peace treaty with Great Britain, which ends with Hong Kong, Singapore, Sarawak, Burma, and Malaysia ceded to the Japanese.

1945 onwards—Large numbers of Frenchmen begin to immigrate to the Republic of Quebec, not wanting to face life under German domination. Under U.S. pressure, former members of Action Française are explicitly banned from entering the country, though there are those who slip through nonetheless.

January 20, 1945—Thomas Dewey is inaugurated as the 34th President of the United States. In his speech, he lays out a series of ambitious goals, including the incorporation of the former Confederate States into the Union, and working with the German Empire to prevent other nations from acquiring superbombs.

January 22, 1945—In a private audience with the Japanese ambassador, Dewey explicitly warns against trying to seize Russian Alaska.

March 9, 1945—Continuing his moves to reform the government, the Democratic-controlled Congress passes two of the new President’s biggest shake-ups to date. The new Department of Defense consolidates the War Department into a more manageable body (and also establishes an independent United States Air Force). Likewise, a new body, the Organization of Strategic Services, is established to better coordinate and enhance America’s intelligence gathering abilities.

June, 1945—A U.S. sponsored coup in Mexico removes Emperor Francisco Jose from power, who is executed by the perpetrators. A junta of pro-Republican military officers takes control in Mexico City, promising Philadelphia that they will move to establish Mexico as a representative democracy “at all deliberate speed.” The political chaos in Mexico, combined with the shattered postwar economy, sparks a large migration into the United States.

In its first elections held since the end of the Second Great War, the Afrikaner National Party sweeps to power in South Africa. A policy of Apartheid is quickly implemented to control its black population, drawing strong condemnation from the United States and muted protests from Germany. Over the next few years, South Africa becomes a favorite destination for desperate Southern war criminals. Some will play key roles in the atrocities committed by the South African government over the next several decades.

August, 1945 onwards—Operation Eagle Claw, the re-settlement of Utah’s Mormon population to the Big Island in the Sandwich Isles begins. An attempt to start yet another revolt ends in disaster, with the perpetrators executed. Utah will largely be empty of Mormons by the end of the year. It will subsequently be opened for settlement…

December, 1945—Ferdinand Koenig, Saul Goldman, Jefferson Pinkard, Vern Green, and Mercer Scott are all hung within days of each other.

1946 onwards—In order to assist the two million survivors of the Southron Holocaust re-establish some form of livelihood, and to hasten the reconstruction of Haiti, President Dewey announces that the Caribbean nation will be open to unlimited immigration of all survivors. Over time, most will make the journey.

British rule in India completely collapses during this year, as the new provisional government begins a hasty withdrawal. After a long period of chaos and violence in many parts of the former Raj, the situation will calm somewhat by the mid-1950s.

The new nations include the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, the Republic of Bengal, the State of Sri Lanka, the Republic of Bharat, the State of Hyderabad, and the new Japanese puppet Republic of Burma.

January 5, 1946—Winston Churchill and Oswald Mosley are both executed by the Germans, for their role in sparking the Second Great War and the bombing of Hamburg.

April 2, 1946—Alberta becomes the first former Canadian province to be established as a U.S. territory, due to the fact that it remained largely calm during the last Canadian revolt (and due to the large number of U.S. settlers now living there).

August 1, 1946—The Territory of Baja California is formally established.

August 8, 1946—In a referendum, the citizens of Cuba vote to seek ascension to the Union as a state. Despite the desire of some die-hards for independence, most were simply grateful to be rid of the Freedom Party.

January 1, 1947—Cuba is admitted into the Union. It will be the only former Confederate state to regularly vote for the Socialists.

June 6—August, 1948—President Dewey authorizes the beginning of Operation Husky: the invasion of Russian Alaska, commanded by General Daniel MacArthur.

His Socialist opponent, Senator Henry Wallace of Iowa, accuses Dewey of “politics by other means,” and claims that the offensive is “Dewey’s folly,” both of which gain him jeers from the pro-Democratic newspapers.

Despite rough terrain and stiff pockets of Russian resistance, the invasion is a complete success. Dewey’s prospects for reelection, already high thanks to the recovering economy, skyrocket even further.

November 2, 1948—President Dewey wins a fairly easy victory over Senator Wallace. The Democrats also retain control of Congress, although the Socialists gain seats thanks to the elections for Cuba’s Congressional delegation. It’s seen by most as a full vindication of the President’s domestic and foreign policy.

1949 onwards—Sparked by France’s final defeat at the hands of Germany, and by years of brutal rule by Action Française, a bloody war for independence breaks out in Algeria, led by the underground Army of National Liberation. Although far from sympathetic for their cause, the Germans do nothing to assist the French forces in the country; by late 1949, Germany finally steps in and orders all French forces to vacate the colony. Most former French settlers flee either to South Africa or Quebec. Algeria’s Jews mostly leave for Quebec as well.

January 20, 1949—In his inaugural speech, President Dewey calls for a “united front of democratic states to create a just and lasting peace.”

February 14, 1949—In what will later become known as the “Valentine’s Day Pitch,” President Dewey, in a special address to Congress, proposes the creation of the Compact of Democratic States (CDS), to forge a lasting political, military, and economic alliance between all willing participants.

February 20, 1949—Japan formally annexes Hainan Island.

March 1, 1949—The Treaty of Philadelphia establishes the Compact of Democratic States. Besides the United States, the signatories include Quebec, Ireland, Liberia, Texas, Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala, Costa Rica, the Dominican Republic, Honduras, Ecuador, Chile, and the provisional government of Haiti. Among other things, it promises mutual defense for all member states, and an eventual reduction in trade barriers. It will be headquartered in New York City.

In a separate agreement signed a few days later, the United States arranges for the establishment of a Nicaragua Canal, securing a ten-mile wide canal zone from government of the country in question. The groundbreaking ceremony will be in January of 1950.

January 22, 1950—Sonora, Chihuahua, Jamaica, the Bahamas (including Bermuda), and Newfoundland are established as Territories.

March 3, 1950—In another major legislative victory for President Dewey, the Immigration Reform Act of 1950 is passed by Congress and signed into law (thanks to large numbers of Socialist votes). The new bill, pushed hard by Congresswoman Blackford, abolishes the 1930s-era restrictions put forward by President Hoover, and explicitly allows the immigration of groups under threat “from genocide or persecution,” in recognition of the failure to take in large numbers of black refugees prior to the war.

1951 onwards—Exploiting the former Confederate scientists from Huntsville and Lexington, the United States begins working towards detonating a sunbomb, as well as towards the creation of ballistic missiles.

April 15, 1951—Australia and New Zealand, both concerned of the looming threat of an attack by the Japanese Empire, become signatories of the CDS.

June 30, 1951—The German Empire and Austria-Hungary detonate the world’s first sunbomb at a remote testing facility in German Southwest Africa. The United States promptly begins accelerating its own efforts to acquire the weapon.

1951 onwards—Buoyed by the liberalized American laws regarding immigration, a new wave of migrants begins to arrive in the USA. This new migration includes Serbs, Montenegrins, Albanians, Italians, Romanians, Croats, Bosnians, Czechs, Slovaks, Greeks, Italians, and Jews (mostly from Russia). Early members of this new wave are encouraged by the government to settle in newly vacant Utah, as well as the Canadian and Southern frontiers.

Besides the European immigrants, a smaller wave also begins to flow from America’s West Indian territories, with most settling in New York City. Mexican migrants continue to pour into both the Southwest and former CSA, while (with Japanese encouragement) significant numbers of Chinese refugees (mostly from the coastal cities and Hainan), begin to arrive in California.

January 1, 1952—Mirroring the creation of the CDS, the Germans and Austro-Hungarians unveil the new European Community, to be based in Berlin. The primary purpose of the new organization is to complete the domination over Britain and France. Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and the Central Powers puppet states in Eastern Europe also join on this date. Besides serving as a political and military alliance, the Treaty of Vienna promises to break down all remaining trade barriers on the continent (with the intended effects of German and Austro-Hungarian corporations dominating all of their possible rivals).

July 15, 1952—The United States detonates its first sunbomb at a remote base in the Gilbert Islands.

November 4, 1952—With the personal popularity of President Dewey at his back, and a humming economy, Harry Truman is elected as America’s 35th President, over Socialist Adlai Stevenson of Illinois and Republican Harold Stassen of Minnesota.

May 22, 1953—The Independence Movement (IM) is inaugurated at a summit in Constantinople. A loose alliance anchored by the Ottoman Empire and the Empire of Brazil, the IM is designed to provide an umbrella for nations to resist domination by the Americans, Germans, or Japanese. Besides the Ottomans and Brazil, it includes the Indian, African, and South American countries un-aligned to any major power.

February 8, 1955—Britain grants independence to Kenya and Uganda, due to the financial difficulties of maintaining a hold on them. Both quickly join the IM.

August 4, 1955—Alberta votes to become the first Canadian territory to join the Union; formal admittance will come in 1956, in time for the Presidential elections.

November 6, 1956—President Truman wins a close contest against New York Governor William Averell Harriman.

May 1, 1957—Newfoundland is admitted into the Union.

April 5, 1958—Houston, Kentucky, and Tennessee are formally re-admitted into the Union, as the military rule of the three states comes to an end.

January 1, 1959 onwards—Britain formally grants independence to Nigeria, which soon collapses into a civil war between the Yoruba and Igbo dominated south and the Hausa dominated north. The Germans side with the southern forces, and force a truce by early 1960, which create three new nations (one Hausa, one Yoruba, and one Igbo). The primary motive for the German alliance with the southern coalition was to guarantee access to the sizable oil deposits in the southeast. Certain German and Austro-Hungarian companies will gain valuable concessions…

September 15, 1959—The Nicaragua Canal is completed.

November 1, 1959—The first open elections are held in Mexico since the 1946 coup. The conservative Liberal Reconstruction Party (dominated by the army) sweep into power, against accusations of vote rigging and corruption from the opposition Socialists. Despite this controversy, President Truman publicaly declares the elections “open and free.”

November 8, 1960—The Socialist Party ticket, comprised of Minnesota Senator Hubert Humphrey and Washington State’s Warren Magnuson recaptures the White House, after twelve years of Democratic control. A prime concern for the President-elect is the growing possibility that Japan may soon gain a superbomb…

January 20, 1961—Hubert Humphrey is inaugurated as the 36th President of the United States.

~~~~~

Comments?

Not bad. I found the other half on page 38 as well.

I finally finished the whole series last August and am working on a post-In At The Death timeline as well. Mine's a bit different though, in which the U.S. kind of completes the transition to be the U.S.S.R. of the TL-191 universe when the leftists take control of the federal government in the 1946 and 1948 Elections, with the Socialist Party being the majority party. Also, the Democrats become an illegal political party, I used the fact that there were acquiescent or at least cooperative with the Confederate States until 1880 to justify their destruction (complete with purges, kangaroo trials, and secret executions). Also, I let the Second Great War continue a bit more in Europe, having the Ottoman Empire take back Greece.

Funny thing though, I was talking with my stepfather about Canada during the 1920s. His grandfather told him (who was from Canada) said that the westernmost provinces of Canada would have been more accepting of U.S. annexation as opposed to Ontario, and certainly Quebec. So, I ended up having Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and British Columbia annexed to the U.S. around 1946-1950, with the remaining British Canadian resistance proclaiming the Republic of Ontario to distinguish it from the Republic of Quebec.

And I completed the Cold War rift between Germany and the U.S. because I had Imperial Japan make an alliance with the U.S. with the terms being that Japan would withdraw all forces from China and in return the Americans would (reluctantly) overlook the atrocities done by the Japanese Armed Forces at the time. Eventually, Germany finally turns it attention to the Pacific, and by making an alliance with the Chinese resistance, uses whatever remaining airbases not controlled by Japan to bomb the crap out of them before the Germans use atomic bombs on Tokyo, Kyoto, Nagasaki, Hakodate, and Hiroshima. And the reason for that was pure imperialism for Germany: it means it can take the Dutch West Indies and French Indochina for itself (since the Dutch and French gave up their colonies to Japan in return for monetary compensation), have naval and air bases that can strike British Australia and New Zealand if the U.K. tries to become a problem again, and of course, enslave the locals as they pump up the economy. And, ta-da!, Japan completely devastated, Showa emperor is dead from the nuclear bomb attacks, Hideki Tojo got vaporized as well, and most if not all the Japanese began to immigrate to the U.S. in fear of retaliation from German and Chinese forces.

[CurlyGangster]

Originally Posted by Solroc

I finally finished the whole series last August and am working on a post-In At The Death timeline as well. Mine's a bit different though, in which the U.S. kind of completes the transition to be the U.S.S.R. of the TL-191 universe when the leftists take control of the federal government in the 1946 and 1948 Elections, with the Socialist Party being the majority party. Also, the Democrats become an illegal political party, I used the fact that there were acquiescent or at least cooperative with the Confederate States until 1880 to justify their destruction (complete with purges, kangaroo trials, and secret executions). Also, I let the Second Great War continue a bit more in Europe, having the Ottoman Empire take back Greece.

I will just state I will not choose to be reading your timeline.

[Solroc]

That's fine. It's still in construction, only got it up to 1953-ish.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by Solroc

That's fine. It's still in construction, only got it up to 1953-ish.

post link here so i CAN read it.!

[CT23]

Since Democrat Dewey won the election in 1944 in TL-191, how could the Dems be outlawed so quickly?

[Solroc]

To answer your question CT23, author's creativity. Simply put, I made Dewey push too hard for a quicker reintegration with the Confederates, which pissed off a lot of Americans, especially those serving in the Armed Forces, who just beat the crap of them in the Second Great War. The Socialist Party capitalized on the anti-intergration position, with other leftist parties that are more hawkish began taking leftist Democrats away from the party. In addition, the leftists began to take advantage of the fact that before the Democrats became nationalistic, it practically allowed the Confederates to stay intact during 1864 to 1880.

I'd love to stay more and elaborate more, but I have class in 20 minutes and unfortunately, the Internet that the college provides is deathly-slow so I can't really use it even if I have the time.

[TyrannusZero]

Originally Posted by Solroc

Horrible idea alert!!!

This is fanfiction.net common denominator level awful.

[CurlyGangster]

Originally Posted by Solroc

To answer your question CT23, author's creativity. Simply put, I made Dewey push too hard for a quicker reintegration with the Confederates, which pissed off a lot of Americans, especially those serving in the Armed Forces, who just beat the crap of them in the Second Great War. The Socialist Party capitalized on the anti-intergration position, with other leftist parties that are more hawkish began taking leftist Democrats away from the party. In addition, the leftists began to take advantage of the fact that before the Democrats became nationalistic, it practically allowed the Confederates to stay intact during 1864 to 1880.

If anyone would want to go and integrate the CSA quickly, it will be the Socialists. Dewey wouldn't dominate the entire Democratic Party, and anyone with common sense would have kept the former CSA under Military Occupation for several decades, especially Politicians who have to be elected. The Democrats in TL-191 are the Party of Militarism and hawkish Foreign Policy. There is no way in hell that a. Dewey would od that or b. the Democrats would follow him. However, you are just going to have the Socialists ban a rival Political Party in a Democracy and turn the Country into an effective Dictatorship? Expect a Military coup in mere days. The Socialists and Democrats would have just collectively committed suicide in rapid succession. No Politicians are that stupid.

Also, the Socialists are the Party that allowed the Freedom Party to rise to power, weakened the US Military when a powerful Military was absolutely necessary, and ceded land to the Confederates that the Confederates used to invade the US. Due to all of these failures on the part of the Socialists, the Democrats will easily politically dominate for at least 1-2 decades. By 1940, 1880 is ancient history (honestly, who calls the Republicans the Party of Hoover or the Party of Isolationism anymore?). The fact is the current Democrats want to punish the Confederates with the world's biggest paddle, and they want to make the US Military so powerful and so large, no one will even think of attacking the USA ever again. That alone will keep them in power for a long time.

Honestly, you are getting the Socialists and Democrats mixed up. The Democrats will want to sit on the CSA as hard as possible and for as long as possible. Until the former Confederates beg to become Americans, and after that they will wait a bit longer. The Socialists will want to integrate them quickly into the US after a short and lenient occupation.

[Trotsky]

Originally Posted by Solroc

In addition, the leftists began to take advantage of the fact that before the Democrats became nationalistic, it practically allowed the Confederates to stay intact during 1864 to 1880.

Yeah. Actually, no. That would be like the GOP in real life calling for the ban of the Democratic Party on the basis that 150 years prior the Democrats were the party of Jefferson Davis and other Confederates.

Politics doesn't work like that.

[CT23]

Originally Posted by CurlyGangster

If anyone would want to go and integrate the CSA quickly, it will be the Socialists. Dewey wouldn't dominate the entire Democratic Party, and anyone with common sense would have kept the former CSA under Military Occupation for several decades, especially Politicians who have to be elected. The Democrats in TL-191 are the Party of Militarism and hawkish Foreign Policy. There is no way in hell that a. Dewey would od that or b. the Democrats would follow him. However, you are just going to have the Socialists ban a rival Political Party in a Democracy and turn the Country into an effective Dictatorship? Expect a Military coup in mere days. The Socialists and Democrats would have just collectively committed suicide in rapid succession. No Politicians are that stupid.

Also, the Socialists are the Party that allowed the Freedom Party to rise to power, weakened the US Military when a powerful Military was absolutely necessary, and ceded land to the Confederates that the Confederates used to invade the US. Due to all of these failures on the part of the Socialists, the Democrats will easily politically dominate for at least 1-2 decades. By 1940, 1880 is ancient history (honestly, who calls the Republicans the Party of Hoover or the Party of Isolationism anymore?). The fact is the current Democrats want to punish the Confederates with the world's biggest paddle, and they want to make the US Military so powerful and so large, no one will even think of attacking the USA ever again. That alone will keep them in power for a long time.

Honestly, you are getting the Socialists and Democrats mixed up. The Democrats will want to sit on the CSA as hard as possible and for as long as possible. Until the former Confederates beg to become Americans, and after that they will wait a bit longer. The Socialists will want to integrate them quickly into the US after a short and lenient occupation.

After the Great War, TR made Kentucky and Houston states fairly quickly, but dithered around on doing anything with Canada.

[Trotsky]

Originally Posted by CT23

After the Great War, TR made Kentucky and Houston states fairly quickly, but dithered around on doing anything with Canada.

They even explained why: KY and Houston trends Democratic, while Canada would lean Socialist.

[Solroc]

Well, thanks for your corrections, you guys. Looks like I have a lot editing to do then.

[Captain Reynolds]

i'm thinking of making a map game to continue the TL-191. i took the first post from some information on this, but i changed a few things.

anyone interested in playing?