Tudor bulls, meet 16th century German china shop.

Recently, SRT issued a challenge to create a timeline in which Germany would unify during the 16th century. I've actually been working through a timeline that answers that question, but which I prefer to think of as an answer to another: What difference does it make what German principality emerges as the core of the united German state? And what difference does the era in which this occurs make to the constitution and values of the end-product state?

Specifically, what happens if we trade out Prussia for Saxony, and nineteenth century spikey-helmet imperialism for the world of the German humanists?

As it is, sixteenth century Saxony is a rather surreal place without fictional embellishments.

In 1517, the Elector Frederick III was the Pope's favorite candidate to become the next Holy Roman Emperor. Fifteen years later, the Christians of Ernestine (more about this in a bit) Saxony had for all intents and purposes seceded from the Church, monks and priests were getting married, congregations were singing vernacular hymns together tunelessly, children were being taught to read so they could understand the Bible in German, and matters of faith was being bandied about in the nebulous thing that we have come to call "the media" with all manner of radicalisms and lunacy apparently under consideration.

Lutheranism and its sparring partners within Protestantism transformed Europe, and influenced the development of even what we think of today as Catholic European states like France and Poland. But at first glance what's remarkable about central Europe in the sixteenth century is that there's not really a concomittant transformation in the political balance of power.

Why is this?

It has much to do with the soap opera nature of the dynastic politics of Saxony's ruling family, the Wettins.

[Sorry. This context needs to be described in a bit of detail, so multiple posts are necessary.]
 
In 1485, Saxony was divided between two brothers, Ernest and Albert III. Ernest's territory was basically a few ribbons of land reaching north-south from Coburg to Wittenberg. Albert, by contrast, got what a passing familiarity with the ensuing history of the region would tell us is the good stuff, including Dresden and the commercial center of Leipzig. However, Ernest received the title Elector, which signified that he was one of the seven nobles invested with the power to elect the Holy Roman Emperor. Albert, by contrast, was a mere Duke. And hence historians use the terms Electoral Saxony interchangeably with Ernestine Saxony and Ducal Saxony with Albertine Saxony.

Ernest left his Saxony (henceforth Ernestine Saxony) to his son Frederick III "the Wise." Frederick III was an impressive ruler, founding the University of Wittenberg. He first champions the project of reforming the Church from within, but then when one of the University of Wittenberg's faculty members went renegade and challenged the established order of Western Christendom, Frederick III doubled down. Dying unmarried, he passed the Electorate to his brother John "the Constant", under whom what we could come to call Lutheranism was consolidated. John the Constant then left the Electorate to his son John Frederick, who though highly educated, was less savvy and more unyielding in his support of the Reformation. He would end badly.

For the reason why, we need to understand what was happening on the Albertine side of the Saxon equation. Albert begat Henry IV, who did not have much use for the strange religious enthusiasms of the Ernestine Wettins. And Henry IV begat the future Duke Maurice, who in his childhood went to live for a time with his kinspeople the Ernestine Wettins, and left the experience with a burning hatred. Most especially for his first cousin, John Frederick.

So in 1546 the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (yes, that Charles V--ruler of Spain, Austria, Hungary, the Netherlands, much of Italy and the New World) decided he was tired to no end of John Frederick's grandstanding on behalf of the Reformation. He imposed the imperial ban on the Ernestine Saxon Elector, and gave Maurice the task of deposing his first cousin, with the reward for doing so being the Electoral dignity.

Maurice invaded, despite the fact that he's Lutheran as well, and the result was initially an unmitigated failure. But then Maurice defeated John Frederick in the Battle of Muhlberg because of discord between John Frederick and his allies, with the result being that John Frederick had to surrender everything (it's for this reason that I believe in the same way John Frederick's uncle is "The Wise" and his father is "The Constant," he is "The Magnanimous.").

So, Maurice runs Saxony and all's well that ends well, right? No. Evidently the Emperor annoyed him a few years later sufficiently that Maurice launched his own war against the Emperor. The results of this war were that Maurice died, John Frederick was released from his imprisonment, and the former Elector was even restored some of his lands so that in effect the Ernestines and Albertines had neatly exchanged titles, Maurice's line being now the Elector and John Frederick's line now the Duke.

To a certain extent the Protestants win, as the Peace of Augsburg eventually resolves these problems in the short term by giving the Lutheran princes the right to be Lutheran princes. But time, the infusions of precious metals into Habsburg coffers from the New World, and the charming German custom of subdividing already tiny princely states into still smaller territorial units, all take their toll. And most importantly for the longterm future of Germany, Saxony does not take the side of the other German Protestant states in the Thirty Years War, perhaps remembering the fate of John Frederick. So the Protestant princes fritter away their power until Prussia comes along. Wacky hijinx ensue.

So--what's the net effect of this? See: "Fratricidal War"; See also, "Circular Firing Squad."

And more interestingly, what pebble do we need to create the avalanches of historical changes? Well, the title of the thread should provide a hint.
 
So this, finally, is my proposed alteration of the timeline: it is apparent that what the Ernestine Wettins had in the early decades of the sixteenth century were intelligence, integrity, and double and sometimes triple chins. What they lack, asides from modern cardio equipment, is cunning, a sense of grandeur, and an instinct for self-preservation.

So what I propose to do is to graft onto the Wettins a branch of the European royal house that did not so much read Macchiavelli's "The Prince" as had its raw essence flowing through their veins. So that instead of the very "ernest" John Frederick facing Charles V and his scrappy cousin, there's a Saxon Elector who has a bit of that good old "I-will-kill-as-many-blood-relatives-as-I-have-to-to-keep-the-crown", "I-will-go-through-as-many-wives-as-I-have-to-to-produce-the-heir", "where-is-my-corset-and-breastplate-the-Spanish-Armada-is-coming", burn and behead and grind into the dust as many as necessary, Tudor fighting spirit.

So, without further ado, I propose that Elizabeth Tudor (born in 1492), the daughter of Henry VII who died while a child, grows up. And that Henry VII, seeing as how his older children were all in equally placed strategic marriage alliances (Arthur and then Henry with Spain, Margaret with Scotland, and Mary with France) marries off Elizabeth to the Saxon Elector Frederick III's brother and heir-apparent, John.

The future Elector Frederick Henry is born in Wittenberg in 1510. His younger brother John Frederick born in 1515, and a sister Catherine is born in 1516.

I'm going to wait to see the response all this context gets before I post my timeline for Frederick Henry's reign as Elector (1532-1560).

Considering the two strains of historical context this ties together (Charles V the deposer of Frederick Henry is the nephew of Catherine of Aragon, and his brother Philip II of Spain is the husband of Mary I of England), this will get a bit complicated.

All I am ready to say now is, assassination attempts by gunpowder do occur.
 
So you're proposing the POD to be some kind of unification of the Wettin family? Or are you proposing that the Wettin's form some kind of family alliance?

The Wettins as a dynasty don't seem to have had the multi-generational talent at ruling, so even if Maurice is able to keep it together, I don't know if Saxony could make itself into the unifier of Germany.
 
So you're proposing the POD to be some kind of unification of the Wettin family? Or are you proposing that the Wettin's form some kind of family alliance?

The Wettins as a dynasty don't seem to have had the multi-generational talent at ruling, so even if Maurice is able to keep it together, I don't know if Saxony could make itself into the unifier of Germany.

Basically, the short version of what I'm proposing (and this is in the forthcoming timeline)is that the Ernestine Wettins produce an Elector who defeats Maurice and takes Ducal Saxony, along with some extra besides on Saxony's periphery. Things sort of develop a natural momentum from there.

I kind of joke in the above posts about how this is about the Tudor bloodline, but really in all seriousness what happens in my timeline is that the next generation of Wettins that the marriage of John and Elizabeth produces are entranced by the figure of Henry VIII, so that they become intrigued by an ideology of national consolidation. The more immediate effect though is that because of their obsession with this strong (tyrannical, in fact) ruler, they are more than willing to say no when Luther demands they do something politically inept, are capable of ignoring doctrinal differences in building alliances with other Protestant sects, and accumulate power steadily throughout the 1530s and 1540s. Also, Henry VIII enters the Schmalkaldic League, which helps.

I suppose one could say I see the Wettins as a fixer-upper. :)
 
I'm mainly curious what the borders of a 16th-century unified Germany would be. Would the Duchy of Prussia be included? Anything outside of the HRE?
 
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I'm mainly curious what the borders of a 16th-century unified Germany would be. Would the Ducky of Prussia be included? Anything outside of the HRE?

In my draft draft, in the mid-seventeenth century around the time of the Peace of Westphalia in our timeline, in my timeline there's two distinct entities, one that is the Saxon state proper which has been engorged by acquisitions over the previous century (think about those maps of what Prussia looked like after 1815), and another that is more or less a federal state more centralized than the Holy Roman Empire, in which Saxony is still nominally merely the first among equals.

At this point in my thinking Brandenburg is a (dissatisfied, restless, and ambitious) part of this union, but in the timeline I've formulated I believe it is never united with the Duchy of Prussia, which remains a vassal of Poland-Lithuania. Poland-Lithuania is--I'm thinking--a strategic ally and trading partner of the Saxons and that complicates matters with respect to Prussia. And something I've not been able to figure out at all is what happens when in our timeline the Saxon Elector becomes King of Poland-Lithuania.

The other sore thumb in my plan is Bavaria. No way is Catholic Bavaria willing to submit to the Lutheran Saxons, and this creates a conflict running as far forward as I've imagined.
 
In my mind Saxony has great AH potential due primarily to the fact that they were in the position of being a dominant German state and could have united Germany had they been under more competent leadership...

I'll be watching this one...
 
Brilliant. I was always wondering what Wettin Saxony could have become if they wouldn't have split again and again, or even better reunite all Wettin lands.

I had similar ideas, only starting later with Wettin keeping Poland or something like that, so it will be interesting to see how that works out in your TL.

Be kind to my families beautiful hometown of Zwickau please. :)
 
Alright. But I don't think that John Frederick I was in a position to be able to defeat the Emperor's Army, which is basically what he was up against when he fought Maurice.

Hows about Maurice has some kids? John Frederick's line only had Thuringia, which was not very large and then got cut up worse as his line divided.

If Maurice's line can play its cards right, then I think that the Wettins could end up with Bohemia. The Saxons were right on the Bohemian border, and the crown was an elected office. Plus the large number of Protestants among the Bohemian nobility.

So if Albertine Saxony is able to maintain its territorial integrity (it won't get divided between sons, as this was against the law, it can only be reduced by war), then I think it can pick up Bohemia at some point during the 16th, or early 17th century.

With a chunk of Germany and the Kingdom of Bohemia, plus the fact that the Albertine's would have control of two Electoral votes in the HRE's election, I think Saxony-Bohemia would be a formidable political opponent.

This could actually end up with a "Protestant-wank" TL where Protestantism is triumphant in Bohemia, Hungary, Austria, and Bavaria is the lone bastion of Catholicism.
 
This is interesting.

I think that the big problem will be the Hapsbergs. They benefited the most from the continual breakup of potential rival powers each generation.

I am curius to see how you handwave this?

Robert
 
Alright. But I don't think that John Frederick I was in a position to be able to defeat the Emperor's Army, which is basically what he was up against when he fought Maurice.

Hows about Maurice has some kids? John Frederick's line only had Thuringia, which was not very large and then got cut up worse as his line divided.

If Maurice's line can play its cards right, then I think that the Wettins could end up with Bohemia. The Saxons were right on the Bohemian border, and the crown was an elected office. Plus the large number of Protestants among the Bohemian nobility.

So if Albertine Saxony is able to maintain its territorial integrity (it won't get divided between sons, as this was against the law, it can only be reduced by war), then I think it can pick up Bohemia at some point during the 16th, or early 17th century.

With a chunk of Germany and the Kingdom of Bohemia, plus the fact that the Albertine's would have control of two Electoral votes in the HRE's election, I think Saxony-Bohemia would be a formidable political opponent.

This could actually end up with a "Protestant-wank" TL where Protestantism is triumphant in Bohemia, Hungary, Austria, and Bavaria is the lone bastion of Catholicism.

On the most important issue here, you are correct: "Protestant-wank" is precisely what I'm most scared this timeline will turn into if I don't watch out. So if we hit the latter part of the sixteenth century and I'm having John Calvin leap tall buildings in a single bound and such similar, please call me on it.

As it is, the war in both the real, and my invented, timeline is between the Schmalkaldic League and the forces of the Emperor and Maurice. So it's not at the Elector alone, but with Hesse, Brandenburg, Anhalt, the Palatinate, and a good many other dime-size principalities, and in my timeline the Schmalkaldic force is beefed up by England's contributions to the League.

As to the Habsburg lands, all I am prepared to say right now is that at some point they come into play, just as they do in our history's Thirty Years' War. Beyond that, I'm not going to say anything. Except that it's not going to be a total Protestant-wank. :)
 
"Here I march, I can do no other."

Elector Frederick Henry the Temperate, also called the Holy Prince, 1532-1560


1532
The Elector John the Steadfast dies and is succeeded by his elder son, Frederick Henry. Frederick Henry decided to rule with his younger brother John Frederick rather than divide the lands of Ernestine Saxony, with the Elector granting his younger brother a pension and the promise of feudal rents from any lands acquired by Ernestine Saxony during his reign. The Emperor Charles V is forced to break off his efforts to enforce doctrinal uniformity on the reforming churches due to a Turkish invasion, and makes with the Protestants the Peace of Nurnberg. Partly from a desire to steer Martin Luther away from doctrinal controversies with other Protestants and further provocations against the Catholic Church, the Elector Frederick John charges Luther with the responsibility of creating a plan for starting a new system of schools to impart basic literacy, numeracy and knowledge of the Christian faith to all children in Ernestine Saxony.

The influential courtier and scholar Georg Spalatin is chosen as Frederick Henry’s chancellor.


1533
The Elector Frederick Henry writes a pamphlet On Christian Freedom that champions Luther’s ideas about the legitimacy of dissent within the Christian church but also proposes that dissent should be permitted within limits rightfully set by the prince. Frederick Henry argues one limit should be doctrinal faithfulness to some credible interpretation of the Biblical text. He argues that another should be that the preaching not invite treason by the listeners or readers against the state or the prince. The pamphlet, published with contributions and edits from Luther and Melanchthon, create fresh outrage between the Saxon Elector and the Catholic Church.


Luther reports to Frederick Henry on a plan to use the local churches to educate the children of Saxony, but which would empty Ernestine Saxony’s treasury at a moment when crucial spending on the Saxon army would be necessary because of the likelihood of war to protect the reforming churches.


In foreign affairs, the Elector makes plans to visit his uncle King Henry VIII in England early the next year, to discuss English membership in the Schmalkaldic League of Protestant princes, potential English assistance to Saxony in the event of war, and matters of Protestant theology. It is plain from the two rulers’ correspondence before the visit that some unspecified further dynastic alliance is to be considered.


1534
The most momentous event of the year for Saxony is the Elector Frederick Henry’s visit to the court of his uncle, Henry VIII. Because of the family relation, the two realms’ shared Protestantism, and the fact that Saxony was one of the few states in Europe that recognized the legitimacy of Henry’s marriage to Anne Boleyn, Frederick Henry’s reception at Hampton Court is sumptuous. Henry VIII admonishes him to restrain the restless clerics of Saxony—especially Martin Luther. In return for the promise that Frederick Henry would keep the reforming clerics in hand and forbear provoking conflict with the Holy Roman Emperor, Henry VIII informally assents to enter the Schmalkaldic League. Beyond diplomacy, however, the visit exerts great influence over the young Elector. The relative opulence of the Tudor court and Henry VIII’s authority as absolute monarch greatly impresses Frederick Henry, and he returns to Saxony resolved to build in the heart of Germany a power like Henry’s England.


Almost as important as England’s entrance into the alliance of German Protestant princes, Henry VIII and Frederick Henry agree to the marriage of Henry Brandon, the Earl of Lincoln, to Frederick’s only sister Catherine. Henry, the only son of Charles Brandon, the Duke of Suffolk, and Henry’s sister Mary Tudor, is line for the English throne behind Henry VIII’s children and those of Margaret’s older sister Margaret Tudor. Brandon becomes the English ambassador to Ernestine Saxony and by extension the Schmalkaldic League.


In Frederick Henry’s absence, Ernestine Saxony is ruled by his mother the Electress Elizabeth and John Frederick as co-regents. Given the fragility of the situation with the emperor, allowing John Frederick to rule alone would have created too great a temptation for outsiders to interfere in the Ernestine Wettins’ dynastic politics.


Returning to Wittenberg, Frederick Henry begins making large investments into building Saxony’s defenses. He officially rejected Luther’s initial plan for educating the schoolchildren of Saxony in favor of a more gradual approach in which individual gymnasia (schools) would be built, first in the larger towns of Saxony, and later in the countryside. He set aside funds to found a gymnasium in Wittenberg, and assigned Luther the task of establishing it and laying the groundwork for the establishment of others. In the meantime, Philipp Melanchthon is given the far more delicate task of drafting beyond the outlines set forth in On Christian Freedom a set of principles for what constitutes permissible preaching and doctrine within Saxony.


1535
The year is dominated by a debate between the Saxon Reformation leaders and Frederick Henry: he signals to them his insistence on a wide doctrinal definition of acceptable religious thought so as to allow the Lutherans to make common cause with other evangelical factions within Christianity. Their responses, to the effect that the Elector ought not to attempt to dictate matters of doctrine, only stiffens his resistance, and he demands prior approval of all their representations of matters of faith to the Catholic Church going forward. They in turn seen this as evidence of the pernicious influence of Henry VIII of England, but relent. Melanchthon thus publishes the Pastoral Guide for the Churches of Saxony, which manages to permit a wide diversity of acceptable Christian doctrine while at the same time instantiating the Elector as an important figure in the religious life of the realm. Almost immediately, various protestant groups like the Anabaptists begin flooding into Saxony, eager to find religious freedom. Partly as a concession to Martin Luther, Frederick Henry permits him to begin working on the doctrinal positions for the reforming churches in the next round of negotiations with the papacy.


The first classes are held in the Wittenberg gymnasium. Luther also begins contacting protestant former members of the religious orders to become teachers at the gymnasia he intends to found across Saxony.

Also, Frederick Henry wins a crucial diplomatic victory when England accedes to membership in the Protestant Schmalkaldic League, as the ambassadors of Henry VIII sign the Treaty of Wittenberg.

1536
Frederick Henry founds the College of Pastors at the University of Wittenberg, designed to train priests in reformist theology, and appoints Luther as its head. Frederick also directs the founding of a gymnasium at Eisenach, the second in Ernestine Saxony.


Evangelical pastors across Germany begin preaching the duty to defend the Elector Frederick Henry, to whom they give the honorific “the Holy Prince.” Luther expresses his distaste with the title, and Frederick Henry announces that it offends his modesty. Nonetheless, the men of many church congregations across Germany swear to defend Frederick Henry from the Emperor and the Pope—the more radical the doctrine, and hence the more vulnerable the congregation, the more absolute the proclaimed loyalty to Frederick Henry.


In England, the Second Succession Act excludes the children of Margaret Tudor, the Queen of Scotland from the succession. This has the effect of lifting the Earl of Lincoln to second in line for the English throne, behind only the young princess Elizabeth (since the princess Mary is now legally Henry’s illegitimate child).


1537
Martin Luther presents to Frederick Henry his refined confession of faith, the Schmalkaldic Articles. On the advice of Philip Melanchthon, Frederick Henry and the other leaders of the Schmalkaldic League decline to present it to the Emperor and the Pope because of Luther’s controversial positions on some theological issues, but allow it to be published and distributed to the public regardless. Simultaneously, Frederick Henry and his most important ally in Protestant Germany, Philip the Magnanimous of Hesse, sign a closer defense arrangement that will require either to come to the defense of the other immediately in the event of attack (implicitly from the Emperor).

Frederick Henry announces the founding of the third protestant gymnasium in Saxony, at Coburg in the fortress known at the Coburg Veste. At the same time, Frederick Henry begins work on impressive new fortifications on the Veste and a set of apartments for the Elector for when he visits the western reaches of the realm.


In an effort to raise money for his military preparations, the Elector Frederick Henry creates a state messenger service in which delivery is guaranteed from his personal coffers.


The Earl of Lincoln and Catherine have their first child, which they name Frederick Henry after his uncle. Henry VIII becomes furious when it is reported to him that the baby is celebrated in Wittenberg as a future king of England.


1538
The Elector Frederick Henry—fearing the independence of the evangelical militias that have arisen in Germany to support the reforming churches, and seeking to regularize them and discipline them into an actual army— forms the Schwarmer Legion. This branch of the Saxon Army would be under the command of his brother, and would be explicitly dedicated to safeguarding the Protestant princes of Germany and their realms.


Worries about whether Frederick Henry—heretofore single-mindedly focused on the struggle over the German church—would marry and produce an heir become more pronounced. The dowager Electress Elizabeth conspires briefly to secure a future marriage for Frederick Henry with her niece and Henry’s first cousin, the five-year old Princess Elizabeth of England. However, the urgency of securing the Ernestine line militates in favor of a bride immediately capable of becoming pregnant.


In 1538 Frederick Henry enters into negotiations with the King of Denmark for that country’s entry into the Schmalkaldic League. The official treaty signed later in the year provides not only for Denmark’s full participation in the alliance. However, in the two rulers’ meetings negotiations begin with King Frederick I of Denmark for the marriage of his daughter, also named Elizabeth.


As the Schmalkaldic League continues to increase its reach, Frederick Henry also opens personal negotiations with the Elector of Brandenburg for its entry into the League.


1539
At Brandenburg, the Electors of Saxony and Brandenburg and the Landgrave of Hesse meet and formally contract the treaty whereby Brandenburg enters the Schmalkaldic League, shifting the balance of power in northern Germany decisively in favor of the Protestants.

Frederick Henry founds a new gymnasium at Plauen, Plauen being the last sizeable town in the Ernestine Saxon lands without a gymnasium. Frederick Henry also begins construction on new fortifications at Wittenberg sufficient to withstand a major siege.


As Luther’s health declines, the leadership of the Wittenberg Pastors College and the directorship of the Saxon public education system fall to Melanchthon, who is now seen as the undisputed leader of the German Reformation. Luther continues to write and publish on his own, and continues to be publicly honored for his contributions to the movement by Frederick Henry.


With his own match to Princess Elizabeth of Denmark all but decided, Frederick Henry makes arrangements to marry his brother John Frederick to Sibylle, daughter of John III, the Duke of Cleves.


1540
Frederick Henry welcomes a delegation of Zwinglians and Anabaptists to Wittenberg and offers them inclusion in the Schmalkaldic League, which they eagerly accept. This is a further provocation to Charles V, and all sides recognize it as bringing Germany a step closer to war.

As the financial strain of buying weaponry, building fortifications and supporting the new schools continue to drain the Saxon treasury, Frederick Henry decides to expand the services offered by the state-run Saxon Post. The Saxon Post Office could now serve as a means to transmit money across distances by the use of paper notes at less cost and with greater security than actually transporting it.


Despite the ongoing financial stress, Frederick Henry announces the founding of the new library at the University of Wittenberg, which would be at its completion one of the largest in Europe.


John Frederick’s engagement to Sibylle of Cleves briefly becomes much more propitious when Sibylle’s sister Anne marries Henry VIII. The marriage however is quickly annulled.


 
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Interesting premise, I am intrigued (and I realize I should read up on my Reformation history ;)). Looks like a great timeline in the making...
 
Just how much did Luther believe in freedom of religion? I was under the impression many Protestants were just as doctrinaire and bloodthirsty as the Catholic Church at the time.

I remember reading a Catholic site that said, although some of Luther's early writings supported freedom of conscience, that was about it as far as the Reformers were concerned.

Obviously a bit biased, but here it is.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htm

If you want to have non-persecutory Lutheranism, perhaps the prince restrains Luther from going on power trips? You hint at this early in the timeline when you talk about preventing Luther from picking fights with other clerics.
 

Susano

Banned
As far as I know Luthers position changed over the course of time. During his rise to fame he indeed supported the position that as everything was in the Bible (sola scriptura), an authoritive intepretation wasnt needed, that everybdoy could intepret the Bible, and that he excersises this right. Later on, he was convinced that his intepretation is the only correct one:rolleyes:

Of course, Luther was also aware of political pragmatism. He didnt like it, but he was aware of it, and could at least bend his dogamata from time to time. For example, he at first was ardently of the opinion that the Emperor is not to be resisted, as he (the Emperor) is the godgiven authority. Later on though he commented taht while that position is theologcially right, legallythe Emperor is not Lord over the various prices, as hes elected from among them, and hence only primus inter pares. Such doctrinal trickery surely can be applied in other fields, too. Or hell, maybe Luther, ahem, simply dies in convinient time, what with a sufficiently ruthless Saxon duke...

Ill have to read the TL in detail later on. From a Hessian perspective, the positive sid eis the Schmalcldic League winning - the bad side is that the Saxon-hessian power struggle within the League* will really be more inS axonys favour. Though, as a suggestion, the Schmalkaldic War bests starts already between 1541 and 1543 over the question of Guelders: Jülich-Cleves-Berg and the Emperor fpight over that territory, JCB was a largely protestant (but religiously tolerant), but noi member of the Schmalkaldic League because of Hesses secret treaty with the Emperor and hence Hessian opposition to that, also because JCB wouldve been primarily a Saxon ally... but if that all can be changed its a League member more and a good casus belli.

Though Ill have to read the TL so far in detail later and give more preceise comments...


*At times, both sides even conspired with the Emperor...
 
Almost as important as England’s entrance into the alliance of German Protestant princes, Henry VIII and Frederick Henry agree to the marriage of Henry Brandon, the Earl of Lincoln, to Frederick’s only sister Catherine. Henry, the only son of Charles Brandon, the Duke of Suffolk, and Henry’s sister Margaret Tudor, is line for the English throne behind Henry VIII’s children and those of Margaret’s older sister Mary Tudor. Brandon becomes the English ambassador to Ernestine Saxony and by extension the Schmalkaldic League.

I must admit that I sometimes get confused by the Tudors, but I thought that Margaret was the elder sister and Mary was married to Charles Brandon. Since Elizabeth (mother of Frederick Henry) was older than Mary, that would mean that Frederick Henry himself would be first in line to the throne after the children of Henry VIII.

Of course, it could be a butterfly effect of Elizabeth surviving that caused Mary and Margaret to switch spouses :).

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
So the religious militias that you have being integrated into the Saxon army- is this your attempt to head off the Peasants' War? Or are you taking a page from Machavelli's book and having the Wettins committing themselves to the formation of a 'citizen-soldier' army?

I must say that I like the idea of the citizen-soldier army. If Saxony is able to move toward self-sufficiency in military matters, that is not relying on mercenaries for its army, that combined with Saxony's excellent geographic and religion positions could end with a dominant Saxony.

A note however. If Saxony makes major gains, it will find its Protestant allies abandoning it. The German princes were just as concerned about maintaining the balance of power as they were about maintaining their religion of choice. There are cases on both sides of the confessional conflict of princes turning on each other in order to maintain the balance of power (Catholic princes turning on the Hapsburgs during the 30 Years War comes to mind).

The best solution I can come up with to counter this is that Saxony is able to take its championship of Protestantism and turn it into taking over the Bohemian throne. With Bohemia and a united Saxony, combined with the Wettins' championship of Protestantism, a Wettin Holy Roman Emperor could forge an alliance with the Protestant Imperial Free Cities, and use their new state and their new alliance to cement Saxony's power over Germany. The alliance with the Free Cities would allow Saxony to take on and beat their former allies among the Protestant princes.

The Saxons would be in a much better position to unify Germany because they don't pose the same kind of risk to the French that a Hapsburg-led Germany did. The Hapsburgs encircled France, and controlled territory that France considered essential to its security. Saxony directly controls no territory that France wants to annex, and has little to no interest opposing French ambitions west of the Rhine. In fact, it is probably in France and Saxony's interest to forge an anti-Hapsburg alliance, granting France a free hand to deal with the Hapsburg in Italy, Spain, and the Burgundian Inheritance, while Saxony is able to acquire Hapsburg territory in the east (for instance territory in Austria that was mostly Protestant), and strenghten its grip on Germany.
 
I must admit that I sometimes get confused by the Tudors, but I thought that Margaret was the elder sister and Mary was married to Charles Brandon. Since Elizabeth (mother of Frederick Henry) was older than Mary, that would mean that Frederick Henry himself would be first in line to the throne after the children of Henry VIII.

Of course, it could be a butterfly effect of Elizabeth surviving that caused Mary and Margaret to switch spouses :).

Cheers,
Nigel.

I noticed this as well. Henry VII's daughters were:
Margaret -born 1489 (between Arthur & Henry)
Elizabeth -born 1492
Mary -born 1496
Katherine -born 1503 (after a son named Edmond)

Is Mary's OTL marriage to Louis XII mentioned, or has it been butterflied away?

Also bear in mind that in OTL Mary and Charles Brandon were married secretly, over the objections and w/o the permission of Henry VIII, and that their only son died at age 17, one year after Mary died.

These nits aside, I'm enjoying the story and look forward to reading more.
 
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