Future of Tanks after a WWI with No Stalemate.

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
What role would tanks play in a world that didn't know of the stalemate of the Western Front of WWI?

The concept of the tank would be around. They were being developed prewar, like the Austrians in 1911(I believe). What would the hypothetical WWII look like in terms of Army doctrine?

Would it more or less be the same or would tanks go along the route of infantry support with perhaps a specialized corps of mobile artillery?
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

ironically there would be no tanks in this scenario !

Tanks were developed to brake the stalemate of the Western Front.
without stalemate there is no need for heavy armor and armed vehicle.

is more likely that fast Armoured Cars would dominate a dynamic front line.
something like these Rolls Royce
ar11.jpg

or these
ar32.jpg


I think under WW1 with a dynamic front line a early form of "Blitzkrieg" is adapted by forces and perfected years after war.
with faster Armoured Cars who operate under radio communication under each other and with Air forces above them,
who support them and attack enemies as replacement of heavy artillery by Bombers.
next to that come the Armoured truck carrying troop or supply for Armoured Cars
 

Tom_B

Halftracks

Initially it would be a further development of armored cars but in a few years you would see some experimentation with armored halftracks for improved off road capability. After a while there is a mix of armored cars and armored halftracks.
 

Dirk_Pitt

Banned
Those look rediculous...

Frankly I believe tracked armored cars would develop eventually.

Tracked vehicles are just that much more versatile over uneven terrain.

And self propelled artillery have quite a bit of value, such as speeding up the advance of your army.

The concept of Blitzkrieg is a nonstarter. Anything that develops in this world might look similar to blitzkrieg, but it won't be blitzkrieg.
 

MattII

So what happens with WW1, that will be a big part of how things will develop.
 
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Tallil2long

Dirk_Pitt said:
Those look rediculous...

Frankly I believe tracked armored cars would develop eventually.

Tracked vehicles are just that much more versatile over uneven terrain.
Click to expand...

In that case, the push would be for light tanks -- essentially, just armored cars on tracks. Heavy tanks came about initially because really big tracked vehicles were required in order to cross wide trenches. So countries would develop extensive families of light tracked vehicles, things that could keep up with a rapid advance.

Of course, once you have a family of "tracked armored cars", the armor-vs-gun contest would begin, gradually driving up the weight of the vehicles. But in peacetime that probably would've gone slowly.
 

ChaosNDiscord

It would all develop more slowly I'm sure, but just think in WWII you didn't have the trench stalemate and you still had major advances in design and function. Tanks are just too dang useful. Wheels will hit first but someone is going to enventually figure out taht they will want to go cross country and other places wheels just can't. Then they'll say, "hey, you know that construction equipment works in mud. What if we use some treads and slap a cannon or two on top?" You'll get there, slower and probably a little more awkwardly, but you'll still have tanks.
 

Tallil2long

ChaosNDiscord said:
It would all develop more slowly I'm sure, but just think in WWII you didn't have the trench stalemate and you still had major advances in design and function. Tanks are just too dang useful. Wheels will hit first but someone is going to enventually figure out taht they will want to go cross country and other places wheels just can't. Then they'll say, "hey, you know that construction equipment works in mud. What if we use some treads and slap a cannon or two on top?" You'll get there, slower and probably a little more awkwardly, but you'll still have tanks.
Click to expand...

Maybe first embodied in a much greater adoption of "tankette" machine gun carriers, like the British Carden Loyd, Italian L3 and French Renault Chenillette?
 

Tallil2long

MattII said:
I'm thinking more a Medium Mark A, ie, a tracked 'version' of the armoured car of the day.
Click to expand...

The "Whippet"? I should have thought its design strongly influenced by the need to cross wide trenches. Given this POD, would that need have arise?

Otherwise, seems reasonable. More so than my tankette idea, I suppose.
 

MattII

the need to cross wide trenches wouldn't be there, but to get any speed up you'd need a large engine relative to the weight of the vehicle (especially once you load it with armour, and given the low power of engines in the early decades of the 20th century), so I'd say a Whippet wouldn't be too far off, although you might be able to fit the turret a bit more central if need be.
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

Tom_B said:
Initially it would be a further development of armored cars but in a few years you would see some experimentation with armored halftracks for improved off road capability. After a while there is a mix of armored cars and armored halftracks.
Click to expand...

what was this first design on halftrack.
ar28.jpg


but i forgot another "Tank" from WW 1 the italian "Iron Horse" a mobile gun unit.
It was equipped with a 305mm cannon, with a shooting range of almost 18 kilometers. It was in used during the shelling of the Austrian fortifications in the Alps:
t28.jpg


This not a Tank in traditional way and not a armored car. It's first self-propelled heavy gun on Wheels.
 

Uruk

The Austin-Putilov-Kegresse


IMHO tracked and halftracked AFVs would become popular in areas where there is a a poor road network (Russia,A-H & the colonies) no later than the 20´s
 

Lord Brisbane

From the British perspective, future development will shift back to defending the 'imperial frontier' with its core focus on mobile operations, against opponents unlikely to be firing anything heavier than common rifle calibers, with armour not really needing to develop against anything heavier. With the expected enemy, there is no desire to mount anything heavier than a machine gun, although you might see some sort of heavier armoured cars or tracked gun carriers carrying light field pieces to provide mobile support.

It entirely depends how much this WW1 experience informs British perceptions and military thinking.
 

Riain

Banned
Without the trenches tanks may have come about just as quickly during WW1 from the armoured car-anti-armoured car battles that will occur. They won't be the OTL rhomboids, but more like later tanks.
 
anotherlurker

anotherlurker

an earlier development of shaped explosive charges (or slower tank developement) could kill armored warfare in its infancy. simple metal armor wouldnt be enough to counter that and anything beyond would be seen as too much effort for too little gain.
 

MattII

Except that designing a piece of field artillery that can be rotated more quickly than a tank could turn might be a little tricky.
 
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