AHC: Bigger UK
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TFSmith121
Banned
Population, geography, or something else?
Population, geography, or something else?
Best,
Population, geography, or something else?
Best,
TFSmith121
Banned
The whole of Ireland would seem the simplest
The whole of Ireland would seem the simplest, since it was up through the second decade of the past century. Of course, it would require the English being somewhat a-historical in their treatment of the Irish.
If Denmark got annexed into one of the various reichs in the Nineteenth or Twentieth, the Faroes and Iceland seem an (increasingly remote) possibility.
Some of the Norwegian Sea islands are also, but more remotely - dunno if they would be part and parcel of the UK, however. Same for any of the Atlantic islands (Azores, Madeira, Canaries, etc.) being picked up during the Napoleonic conflicts.
Anything on the Continent seems unlikely, for obvious reasons.
Plus - Rockall!
Best.
The whole of Ireland would seem the simplest, since it was up through the second decade of the past century. Of course, it would require the English being somewhat a-historical in their treatment of the Irish.
If Denmark got annexed into one of the various reichs in the Nineteenth or Twentieth, the Faroes and Iceland seem an (increasingly remote) possibility.
Some of the Norwegian Sea islands are also, but more remotely - dunno if they would be part and parcel of the UK, however. Same for any of the Atlantic islands (Azores, Madeira, Canaries, etc.) being picked up during the Napoleonic conflicts.
Anything on the Continent seems unlikely, for obvious reasons.
Plus - Rockall!
Best.
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It's
Banned
Like, the British isles being physically larger (slightly ASB) rather than politically (ie occupying foreign territory)?
TFSmith121
Banned
I took it as political geography, since
I took it as political geography, since changing the physical geography is shipped off to the ASB board.
Best,
I took it as political geography, since changing the physical geography is shipped off to the ASB board.
Best,
The other option, besides Ireland, would be for the UK to hold on to (and integrate) some of its colonies, perhaps in a world without the world wars. I could imagine the UK including the West Indies, Malta (almost happened OTL), a few Indian ocean territories like Mauritius and the Seychelles, plus Fiji.
Those I think could be kept without too much difficulty. Maybe Singapore and/or Aden. Maybe Cyprus as well. At the very outer edge of plausibility, Newfoundland and/or even New Zealand, though that's hard to imagine given both were on dominion track fairly early.
I imagine though that Canada, S. Africa, and Australia would be difficult to hold except as part of a very loose Imperial Federation (which in practice would probably just be a trade bloc with common citizenship and foreign policy and a defense alliance, but otherwise self-governing internally). And India and most of the other Asian countries would be impossible to hold long-term, even in a loose Imperial Federation, given their size and different cultures.
Those I think could be kept without too much difficulty. Maybe Singapore and/or Aden. Maybe Cyprus as well. At the very outer edge of plausibility, Newfoundland and/or even New Zealand, though that's hard to imagine given both were on dominion track fairly early.
I imagine though that Canada, S. Africa, and Australia would be difficult to hold except as part of a very loose Imperial Federation (which in practice would probably just be a trade bloc with common citizenship and foreign policy and a defense alliance, but otherwise self-governing internally). And India and most of the other Asian countries would be impossible to hold long-term, even in a loose Imperial Federation, given their size and different cultures.
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libbrit
Banned
Keep Heligoland, incorporate the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, perhaps take the Faroes and Iceland, possibly unify with Hannover. As for full unification with colonies, the only practical ones are Gibraltar, possibly that old favourite, Malta, and the Atlantic colonies such as St Helena, The Falklands etc.
If you're talking direct rule from Westminster, then very difficult. Iceland would probably be the easiest given the small and easily managable population it could hope to have. Everything else would have a varying degree of self-governance. You could have UK enclaves in Calais and Bolougne which could be under Direct Rule, possibly even all of Brittany if say the Napoleonic Wars took a completely different tack.
Here is my proposed A major United Kingdom Wank.
Covering:
- The British Isles.
- Whole of Ireland. (No Home Rule)
- Hanover. (No splitting of the title and land)
French land kept by English king.
- Brittany and Calais
- Gascony (Aquitaine)
Spanish land ceded to Britain "in perpetuity" under the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.
- OTL Cádiz and Málaga,
- Gibralta
In 1773, British give their American colonies more control over their ruling, however in 1813, some states got cocky and wanted full independence leading to a break up with more loyal states staying with their home nation:
- From the south Georgia and South Carolina
- From the north Maine and New Hampshire
Danish land ceded to Britain "in perpetuity" under the Treaty of Reykjavík, after the Napoleonic War.
- Iceland
- Greenland
During the "Peace" Decolonization, their colonies offer to give land, 1827 - Present:
From Canada
- New Foundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia Saint Pierre and Miquelon and Prince Edwar Island
From India
- OTL Bangladesh
From Australia
- OTL Queensland
Covering:
- The British Isles.
- Whole of Ireland. (No Home Rule)
- Hanover. (No splitting of the title and land)
French land kept by English king.
- Brittany and Calais
- Gascony (Aquitaine)
Spanish land ceded to Britain "in perpetuity" under the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713.
- OTL Cádiz and Málaga,
- Gibralta
In 1773, British give their American colonies more control over their ruling, however in 1813, some states got cocky and wanted full independence leading to a break up with more loyal states staying with their home nation:
- From the south Georgia and South Carolina
- From the north Maine and New Hampshire
Danish land ceded to Britain "in perpetuity" under the Treaty of Reykjavík, after the Napoleonic War.
- Iceland
- Greenland
During the "Peace" Decolonization, their colonies offer to give land, 1827 - Present:
From Canada
- New Foundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia Saint Pierre and Miquelon and Prince Edwar Island
From India
- OTL Bangladesh
From Australia
- OTL Queensland
Anyone who has already visited Cadiz knows that nobody can hold Cadiz against the continent. Cadiz is not a rock like Gibraltar.
If you want some crazy turn of events with Spain, have marriages between 1 or 2 Plantagenet king of France (instead of his younger sons like John of Gaunt or Edmund of Langley) and a woman kawful heir of the crown of Castile. The sooner the better.
It should then not be too difficult to have the Plantagenet king extend his rule to Aragon and Portugal.
Concerning France, you just can't hold Britanny and Calais in the age of artillery. That's precisely why Calais fell in the mid 16th century. Land powers had too strong firepower for England continuing holding Calais.
The only way to have a solid UK of England of France is, at the latest, to have Edward III be chosen as heir by his grandfather Philip IV of France.
Have Philip IV live 15/17 years longer until 1329/1331. He has no living son left (they are dead in 1316, 1322 and 1328) and his 3 sons only left daughters.
Then, have Philip IV and his daughter Isabelle agree on the fact that Edward is going to be king of France and England.
This would form a "UK" for the small minority who would still speak english a few centuries later. And the wide majority would rather call it RU for "Royaume-Uni".
All the principalities that were to be known as the burgundian low countries will of course be under the domination of the super Plantagenet king.
Starting from this point, you can have the UK of France-England-Castile-Portugal-Aragon conquer Rhineland and whatever it wants in Italy.
You can then have it conquer and colonize all Americas and prevent any other kingdom founding colonies on the north and south american coasts.
Is this enough ?
The only point that may disappoint you is the language. If the king of England rules other kingdoms with a much larger populations (the kingdom of France in its medieval borders was 5 times as populated as England), then England in itself will be satellized by the much bigger kingdom of the dynasty.
If you want some crazy turn of events with Spain, have marriages between 1 or 2 Plantagenet king of France (instead of his younger sons like John of Gaunt or Edmund of Langley) and a woman kawful heir of the crown of Castile. The sooner the better.
It should then not be too difficult to have the Plantagenet king extend his rule to Aragon and Portugal.
Concerning France, you just can't hold Britanny and Calais in the age of artillery. That's precisely why Calais fell in the mid 16th century. Land powers had too strong firepower for England continuing holding Calais.
The only way to have a solid UK of England of France is, at the latest, to have Edward III be chosen as heir by his grandfather Philip IV of France.
Have Philip IV live 15/17 years longer until 1329/1331. He has no living son left (they are dead in 1316, 1322 and 1328) and his 3 sons only left daughters.
Then, have Philip IV and his daughter Isabelle agree on the fact that Edward is going to be king of France and England.
This would form a "UK" for the small minority who would still speak english a few centuries later. And the wide majority would rather call it RU for "Royaume-Uni".
All the principalities that were to be known as the burgundian low countries will of course be under the domination of the super Plantagenet king.
Starting from this point, you can have the UK of France-England-Castile-Portugal-Aragon conquer Rhineland and whatever it wants in Italy.
You can then have it conquer and colonize all Americas and prevent any other kingdom founding colonies on the north and south american coasts.
Is this enough ?
The only point that may disappoint you is the language. If the king of England rules other kingdoms with a much larger populations (the kingdom of France in its medieval borders was 5 times as populated as England), then England in itself will be satellized by the much bigger kingdom of the dynasty.
RodentRevolution
Banned
In 1707 the Parliament in Edinburgh voted to enter into perpetual Union with France. The other option union with England was rejected because of sentimental feelings over the Auld Alliance and basically because France is bigger. Some creative work with genealogies and the vote was a formality.
The United Kingdom of France and Scotland or Le Royame-Uni de la France et l'Ecosse language divide has led to the joke "RU from the UK?"being considered witty in England.
The United Kingdom of France and Scotland or Le Royame-Uni de la France et l'Ecosse language divide has led to the joke "RU from the UK?"being considered witty in England.
Keeping all of Ireland is the most plausible though I think a POD early in the 19th century (or earlier) would be needed - the rise of Daniel O'Connell in the 1820s probably made Irish independence inevitable in long run, though even without him the Catholic peasants would have been politicized sooner rather than later.
Sior
Banned
Make the legend of Cantref y Gwaelod true and the sea defences held to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantre'r_Gwaelod
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