20th Centuray American Expansion
- Thread starter U.S David
- Start date
Japan might be possible, but actually asb, unless Operation Downfall is launched and every Japanese having weapons [even with a knife] fight to the end fanatically and every Japanese die [surviving Japanese to population of Japan ratio needs to be 1:1000 to be possible as a minimum and that's for adults]. And, besides asb, why do you want to cause that many Japanese deaths unless every Japanese was so stupid or the Americans conduct genocide?
Germany and Italy? No way, sorry.
On Central America and Northern Mexico, with a even more interventionist mindset in America?
Redhand
Banned
Maybe Iceland during WW2? I'm not sure about the exact nature of the occupation, but it wouldn't be too implausible like the US annexing West Germany.
I'm sure some more Pacific Islands taken in WW2 could be annexed and I think there was some support for this idea in Congress but that wouldn't really match the large annexation thing unless Australia decides to give the US New Guinea or the Solomons, both of which seems beyond far fetched.
Maybe Cuba gets annexed or Veracruz gets taken as permanent punishment from Mexico during an intervention.
I'm sure some more Pacific Islands taken in WW2 could be annexed and I think there was some support for this idea in Congress but that wouldn't really match the large annexation thing unless Australia decides to give the US New Guinea or the Solomons, both of which seems beyond far fetched.
Maybe Cuba gets annexed or Veracruz gets taken as permanent punishment from Mexico during an intervention.
Iceland, yes, but not likely. US Pacific and Carribean islands, certainly. Central America? No, except dfor a bit more of Panama.
With different politics Cuba and Panama could be possible. During Mexican Revolution parts of Mexico (perhaps Baja California) is possible. With different WW2 French American colonies and French Polynesia, Iceland and Greenland is possible. Ryukyu Island might be too possible. And not be impossible that Newfoundland join to USA too.
Cuba, up until 1959, seems possible. Perhaps TR or FDR might have offered negotiation of one or another of the power struggles with joining the US as a civilized / less violent way of settling things?
Iceland is a long shot but feasible--I suppose. I don't know the state of things shortly after WW II but there would have to be a crash education in English if the population didn't have some knowledge already--well, that and republic-style civics as opposed to parliamentary civics.
Newfoundland always comes up in discussions like these; it would be necessary to have the plebiscite go that way, and I don't think Ottawa would have been too pleased at the result, perhaps accusing the Truman (?) administration of meddling.
Perhaps the UK could be offered $$$ for the Bahamas and/or Bermuda just after WW II to ease its cash flow difficulties? The former doesn't seem entirely outrageous given its location just east of Florida. Come to think of it, were that to happen and Cuba were already in the US orbit, maybe Jamaica especially given its bauxite deposits?
Last, in a novel (I forget the name), William Safire suggested the Azores might somehow be acquired from Portugal. Can't really imagine why given their miniscule size/population of the islands themselves (although the archipelago and surrounding waters are fairly substantial if considered together) and not much apart from various agricultural pursuits, but maybe as something of a Cold War forward base?
Iceland is a long shot but feasible--I suppose. I don't know the state of things shortly after WW II but there would have to be a crash education in English if the population didn't have some knowledge already--well, that and republic-style civics as opposed to parliamentary civics.
Newfoundland always comes up in discussions like these; it would be necessary to have the plebiscite go that way, and I don't think Ottawa would have been too pleased at the result, perhaps accusing the Truman (?) administration of meddling.
Perhaps the UK could be offered $$$ for the Bahamas and/or Bermuda just after WW II to ease its cash flow difficulties? The former doesn't seem entirely outrageous given its location just east of Florida. Come to think of it, were that to happen and Cuba were already in the US orbit, maybe Jamaica especially given its bauxite deposits?
Last, in a novel (I forget the name), William Safire suggested the Azores might somehow be acquired from Portugal. Can't really imagine why given their miniscule size/population of the islands themselves (although the archipelago and surrounding waters are fairly substantial if considered together) and not much apart from various agricultural pursuits, but maybe as something of a Cold War forward base?
There was support in Newfoundland for American annexation, but it wasn't allowed to be put on the ballot. Perhaps in a world with no Cold War and cooler transatlantic relations after alt-WWII(itself worthy of a TL), the US would actually pay attention to the movement and press for an option on the ballot.
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I seem to recall from previous threads on this topic that there was some talk of Sicily being granted statehood if mainland Italy went Communist after WWII. Don't ask me for a source, however.
If Quebec secedes from Canada in 1980, it might possibly lend some momentum to an eventual union of the Maritimes with the US.
If Quebec secedes from Canada in 1980, it might possibly lend some momentum to an eventual union of the Maritimes with the US.
TFSmith121
Banned
It requires a very different 20th Century;
Even as early as 1899, there were decision-makers in the US who thought the Phillippines, Puerto Rico, etc were liabilities (as the PI turned out to be)...
There was also a recognition that governance would lead to statehood, if the concept of the US as a federal democracy was to remain the foundation of government; add in the fact that economic dominance was (generally) a lot cheaper than political/military dominance, and there was a lot of resistance to further territorial aquisitions, and a movement more towards partnerships with the Latin American republics.
So, having said that, I'd think you'd need a different 20th Century, and the most obvious difference would be one in which European great power politics left a potential vacumn in the Western Hemisphere - the obvious route for that is a Anglo-Continental Power confrontation that becomes stalemated and lapses into a cold-to-warm conflict that lasts for decades...
So, depending upon the turn of events and domestic politics, I could see the Western Hemisphere territories of the occupied European powers be annexed by the US and/or Canada and the UK; likely candidates are Greenland, Iceland, possible the French, Dutch, and Danish West Indies, St. Pierre and Miquelon, etc. None are that large in terms of population, but territorial or commonwealth status is possible, at least for some.
After that, it would be whether Canada (and Newfoundland, if it has not already joined the confederation) was so threatened that they came in; that basically requires the UK to go do fighting, which is pretty ASB-ish, but given an early enough point of departure and use of of NBC weapons, is at least in the realm of the possible.
Latin America seems pretty unlikely for political reasons, both international and domestic, after 1900; white supremacy being the foundational one. One minor possibility would be for a diplomatic settlement that splits the Colombian department of Panama, with the CZ becoming sovereign US territory; another possibility is that Panama east of the CZ remains Colombian and west of the CZ is annexed into Costa Rica (or a Central American federation).
I'd say anything in the eastern hemisphere is really out there.
Best,
Even as early as 1899, there were decision-makers in the US who thought the Phillippines, Puerto Rico, etc were liabilities (as the PI turned out to be)...
There was also a recognition that governance would lead to statehood, if the concept of the US as a federal democracy was to remain the foundation of government; add in the fact that economic dominance was (generally) a lot cheaper than political/military dominance, and there was a lot of resistance to further territorial aquisitions, and a movement more towards partnerships with the Latin American republics.
So, having said that, I'd think you'd need a different 20th Century, and the most obvious difference would be one in which European great power politics left a potential vacumn in the Western Hemisphere - the obvious route for that is a Anglo-Continental Power confrontation that becomes stalemated and lapses into a cold-to-warm conflict that lasts for decades...
So, depending upon the turn of events and domestic politics, I could see the Western Hemisphere territories of the occupied European powers be annexed by the US and/or Canada and the UK; likely candidates are Greenland, Iceland, possible the French, Dutch, and Danish West Indies, St. Pierre and Miquelon, etc. None are that large in terms of population, but territorial or commonwealth status is possible, at least for some.
After that, it would be whether Canada (and Newfoundland, if it has not already joined the confederation) was so threatened that they came in; that basically requires the UK to go do fighting, which is pretty ASB-ish, but given an early enough point of departure and use of of NBC weapons, is at least in the realm of the possible.
Latin America seems pretty unlikely for political reasons, both international and domestic, after 1900; white supremacy being the foundational one. One minor possibility would be for a diplomatic settlement that splits the Colombian department of Panama, with the CZ becoming sovereign US territory; another possibility is that Panama east of the CZ remains Colombian and west of the CZ is annexed into Costa Rica (or a Central American federation).
I'd say anything in the eastern hemisphere is really out there.
Best,
Tallest Skil
Banned
YAY. I LOVE YOU.
Germany impossible. You could potentially have more land taken from Japan and annexed by the US through Operation Downfall. Starve out the Home Islands, invade with great expenditure, and then take Shikoku and/or Kyushu (plus the Ryukyus) as recompense.
Starting at 1900, get rid of the Platt Amendment and just keep Cuba after the Spanish-American War. Then government support of William Walker in Sonora to annex OTL Sonora+Baja California. If decolonization still happens after a WWII analogue, perhaps the Caribbean islands could be persuaded to join.
This, too.
That would have caused quite a stir, as by 1900 Mr. Walker had been dead for 40 years.
Of course, there was a conflict in Mexico that the US was involved in after 1900...