AHC: Iberia-wank in America

Stolengood

Stolengood

Banned
We so often, in the popular cultural history of America, seem to think Columbus dropped anchor in 1492 and then absolutely nothing happened until the 1600s when the British finally got their colony game running. The Spanish and Portuguese had a full century's head-start on the British -- but we don't generally tend to hear about them, because their colonies and expeditions were farther south and tended to more involve that pesky Latin America region.

But what if the British, or even the French, never got a foothold? What if Portugal managed to branch out even more, in competition with Spain (because damn the Treaty of Tordesillas!)? Imagine an Americas entirely Spanish/Portuguese. What would (or could) possibly cause such a wank? And what would result from it?

That is my Alternate History Challenge to you. Have fun. ;)
 
Tripledot

Tripledot

I don't get it. Iberia pretty much was wanked. They colonized one and a half continents, from Patagonia to California. If you want to make Latin American countries more relevant down the line, you'll probably want to wank Mexico or something.
 
Emperor RyRy

Emperor RyRy

Banned
Maybe some extension of the Hundred Years War where somehow France doesn't immediately win.

That could allow both England and France to weaken to the extent that Spain becomes the dominant continental nation until the 1700s. At that point the Iberians own the whole hemisphere.
 
LNSS

LNSS

Down here in Latin America, it's the English/French colonization that gets ignored until the American Revolutionary War.
 

Paul Spring

I think that other European powers would have to remain uninterested in the Americas (very, very unlikely, once Spain especially shows how profitable they can be), or have the Iberian powers remain fanatically dedicated to keeping other Europeans out of the Americas entirely, even if it means great expense and war. Even this is likely to only delay other European countries' setting up colonies.

I remember reading that in OTL that one of the Spanish governors of Florida in the early 17th century actually suggested setting up a series of fortified outposts and naval patrols up the east coast of what later became the USA and Canada as far as Newfoundland in order to keep other European powers out. This was rejected because it would have been incredibly expensive and difficult. The Spanish had actually tried a few settlements or missionary outposts north of Florida by the early 17th century, but they had all failed and there was little sign that the lands north of Florida would be immediately profitable the way other Spanish lands had been.
 

dandan_noodles

Iberia wank? Sign me the fuck up!

So I'll revisit a favorite PoD of mine, and Mary I of England doesn't get uterine cancer, has a son by Philip II of Spain, and he more or less is the one running England with Mary's cooperation. Basically, instead of coming to the Americas as settlers intent on setting up relatively homogenous, congregationalist communities, Philip pushes the English to follow the Spanish pattern of colonization.

Jesuits live amongst and compile information about the Natives and get some conversions going without stepping on too many toes, and when the colonists arrive in numbers, the come as conquerors, not pilgrims, intent on ruling over the natives instead of displacing them outright. They pursue a policy of allying with the local tribes against the largest power in the region, they recognize the chiefs as noblemen, mix with the native population, and make them acknowledge the King and Queen of England, Ireland, France, Castile, Leon, Aragon, Sicily, Naples, Navarre, Portugal, Jerusalem, etc etc etc as their overlords.
 
Thesaurus Rex

Thesaurus Rex

Stolengood said:
We so often, in the popular cultural history of America, seem to think Columbus dropped anchor in 1492 and then absolutely nothing happened until the 1600s when the British finally got their colony game running.
Click to expand...
Uh...we do?

I'm not sure where you're from but on this website most people have good knowledge of Spanish activities in the New World. In fact most people who have more than a high school level of history knowledge know quite well about Spanish colonization and conquest of the Americas.
Stolengood said:
The Spanish and Portuguese had a full century's head-start on the British -- but we don't generally tend to hear about them, because their colonies and expeditions were farther south and tended to more involve that pesky Latin America region.
Click to expand...
Much of the United States was part of Spain once. In fact, New Spain damn near covered almost all of the Americas. Which is why everybody is astounded that you'd think a wank is in order. OTL already is an Iberian wank, inside of a general Eurowank.
 

Gurroruo

Thesaurus Rex said:
Uh...we do?

I'm not sure where you're from but on this website most people have good knowledge of Spanish activities in the New World. In fact most people who have more than a high school level of history knowledge know quite well about Spanish colonization and conquest of the Americas.
Click to expand...
He means the American school system in which American History covers 400 years Jamestown-Present.

Anyways a great wank is to have Spain less focused on Europe, by having Miguel de Paz live and inherit Portugal, Castille, and Aragon. This would see an Iberia more focused on colonization than maintaining a vast European empire that OTL tied down lots of resources.
 
Timaeus

Timaeus

Gurroruo said:
He means the American school system in which American History covers 400 years Jamestown-Present.

Anyways a great wank is to have Spain less focused on Europe, by having Miguel de Paz live and inherit Portugal, Castille, and Aragon. This would see an Iberia more focused on colonization than maintaining a vast European empire that OTL tied down lots of resources.
Click to expand...

Or even better, having Isabella marry an Avis and uniting Castile and Portugal while Aragon goes and fights the corsairs.
 
Timaeus

Timaeus

kasumigenx said:
If Isabella marries an Avis, it would be Indonesia, not the Philippines would be under Spain...
Click to expand...

We're talking about the Americas, though.

However, when you consider that Aragon will be busy making the Mediterranean into their Mare Nostrum and Castille-Portugal would be the main naval power on the high seas...

well, the treaties of Zaragoza and Tordesillas were made because Spain and Portugal were ocean-faring rivals.
 

CthulhuFhtagn

Banned
The Spanish and Portuguese held practically all of the inhabitable parts for centuries. How much more wanking could they take?
 

EMT

The Spanish did go HAM in North America very early on, but they lost control of the forts in western North Carolina: See Here

If you can get them to settle the more hospitable parts of North America earlier on than it's likely that even if the region had been lost to another power, the population would remain majority Spanish-speaking and Catholic short of a population purges.

A good example of Iberia-wank is Portuguese America and Southern Africa; that TL actually covers the how and why very well. TL's Over Here
 

DG Valdron

Lets see....

All of South America. All of Central America. All of Meso-America. Much of the Caribbean - specifically three of the four largest islands and the three largest ones at that. Plus Florida. Plus the 'Louisiana Territory. Plus the American Southwest, California and the Pacific Coast up to Nootka Sound in British Colombia. And throw in the Phillipines for a hell of of it.

The British were a narrow strip along the Atlantic Seaboard, the French were a strip above that going down the St. Laurence, and fiddling with each other to be second runner up in the Caribbean. The Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. as clear also rans.

How much more wanked could you possibly be?
 

EMT

DValdron said:
Lets see....

All of South America. All of Central America. All of Meso-America. Much of the Caribbean - specifically three of the four largest islands and the three largest ones at that. Plus Florida. Plus the 'Louisiana Territory. Plus the American Southwest, California and the Pacific Coast up to Nootka Sound in British Colombia. And throw in the Phillipines for a hell of of it.

The British were a narrow strip along the Atlantic Seaboard, the French were a strip above that going down the St. Laurence, and fiddling with each other to be second runner up in the Caribbean. The Dutch, Swedes, Norwegians, etc. as clear also rans.

How much more wanked could you possibly be?
Click to expand...

Wank isn't a throwaway phrase that equates to ASB. Could the Spanish have conquered more land and administered it to the point where it's internationally recognized as Spanish? Fairly confident the answer is yes if you consider that the natives on the Eastern Seaboard had insane mortality rates to the point where it was near empty of natives by the time the English put muscle into colonization. The only challenge is getting the Spanish to be more interested in settler colonies, or the establishment of forts to 'lock down' certain regions.
 

Dathi THorfinnsson

This is a very, very strange title.

OTL's America IS an Iberia wank. Everything south of the Rio Grande (del Norte) IS Iberian, except for the guianas.

If you mean North America, say so.

If you mean OTL's USA, well, that's even weirder, because there wouldn't BE anything like such an 'America' in such a TL.
 
Stolengood

Stolengood

Banned
I mean it REMAINING so. With Spanish as the lingua franca, of course. Instead, it's the British colonies that have wanked all over North America, in particular. I was wondering how Spain could -- and how long they could do that, and what would result.


Thesaurus Rex said:
Uh...we do?

I'm not sure where you're from but on this website most people have good knowledge of Spanish activities in the New World. In fact most people who have more than a high school level of history knowledge know quite well about Spanish colonization and conquest of the Americas.
Click to expand...

You didn't read my post very clearly:

Stolengood said:
We so often, in the popular cultural history of America, seem to think Columbus dropped anchor in 1492 and then absolutely nothing happened until the 1600s when the British finally got their colony game running.
Click to expand...


And you were pretty damn condescending about it.
 
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